X-TOL question

dpurdy said:

is there a possibility that one bottle was contaminated? I was of the impression that the sudden death syndrome was fixed when kodak went to non paper packaging for part A. Somehow it doesn't make sense to me that you mixed up the whole bag and then divided it into 5 parts and one of the parts died but the rest did not. Or did you divide the powders first into five parts and then mix? I am pretty sure you wouldn't do that.

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I mixed the entire 5L in a bucket at once, then portioned it into the 5 bottles, all of which had been used for developer at least 2 times previously and never for anything else. I can't for the life of me figure out how one would get contaminated, unless it was a matter of an imperfect seal on the bottle itself.

The resulting negatives were almost completely clear, with only the brightest highlights (zone VIII and up) being visible.

Snapshot said:

I was an XTOL user and found that 1:1 dilution produced excellent results. I didn't reuse or replenish, as tracking how much extra time was needed for each roll was more hassle than it's worth. I generally didn't use XTOL enough to worry about economy. Since then, however, my processing requirements have risen dramatically but I've opted to use actuance developers. As a result, XTOL is no longer part of my arsenal.

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X-Tol can be an accutance dev if you dilute 1+3.

jim appleyard said:

X-Tol can be an accutance dev if you dilute 1+3.

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True, at 1+3 dilution XTOL is quite sharp and turns out great negatives. However, I'm finding that FX-37 and Rodinal are giving me my desired results without risk of sudden death and the extra consideration of having to mix up 5 litres of developer. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to use it.

I'm a big fan of Xtol. I tried it when it first came out and haven't even thought of switching since.

I use it one shot 1:1 through 1:3, although have a client who exposes Delta 3200 at EI 12,800 and I use stock for that. Love the dev. Sharper and less grain than D-76 and, I think it gives me smoother tonality. It's a great all round developer.

The only other one I use is Rodinal when I have images that just need that special Rodinal look.

I can't explain what happened with edebill and the sudden death. I know it'll drive me nuts all weekend. But then I really do need to get a life!!

I only use straight when doing 'large' sheet film (8x10 or 11x14) because when I started, I was doing them tray, 1 at a time, and the longer times were killing me.
Now I use a jobo, but having five 8x10 sheets in one tube make me worry about the dev dying on me if I don't use stock. When I used trays, I re-used it in the tray til I had finished at least 6 sheets of 11x14. Can't remember exactly how much chem I used though?

I never re-use it when I'm doing roll film, as it's diluted, and I feel like it would exhaust sooner, though I can't really back that up.
I will say I love this stuff more than almost anything.

edebill said:

I got hit with this for the first time a couple weeks ago. I mix up a 5L XTOL kit and put it into 5 1L datatainers.

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First, if I'm not mistaken, Datatainer bottles are made from HDPE plastic. My understanding is that this isn't the best substance for a developer container. Ryuji Suzuki has a Web page that covers this topic. I'd therefore recommend you switch to PET plastic, or better yet, glass. This will provide a better seal against air. Of course, this doesn't really explain the pattern of your failure if you used identical bottles but only one went bad....

Second, I use a hand vacuum pump to reduce the air pressure in my (glass) bottles. I've noticed that some lids simply don't produce good seals; I can pump away but I hear air leaking back in or, worse, the seal is so bad that the lid never gets "sucked down" at all. Something like this could account for your pattern, albeit without the vacuum pump; if your bottle and/or lid had some crud on it or if the seal was old, it might just not have sealed properly. This could have let enough air in to cause premature oxidation.

More generally, although five months is within Kodak's stated XTOL lifetime (6 months) and well within the practical limits reported by others (a year or more), you might want to consider using Mytol or some other mix-it-yourself developer so that you can mix up smaller batches. Although I've never used Mytol myself, it's claimed to produce results that are very similar to those of XTOL, so switching to it shouldn't require much adjustment in your photographic practices. You will, though, need to buy a few raw ingredients and a suitable scale. OTOH, I don't know how Mytol's shelf life compares to that of XTOL; smaller batch size might not gain you anything if the shelf life is shorter.

I use Xtol and DD-X. I haven't ever used stock Xtol (I use it normally one-shot and 1 : 1) but am thinking of trying that with Ilford Delta 3200 at EI 1600. Would there be any advantage to using this over DD-X, or not a lot of difference? And are there any issues with over-cooked highlights when using Xtol at stock (is it a good idea to decrease agitation?).

I also had the experience of a fifth litre bottle suddenly 'dying' but I had had it for almost a year, certainly over six months - I was using black plastic concertina bottles.

May be a bit late catem: I usually develop Delta 3200 in Xtol 1+1 for 20 minutes at 24 deg. C. Seems to work out well. I agitate for the first minute, then four inversions every minute. That's for an EI of 3200. This additional dilution seems to keep the highlights from blocking up.

Wow, what a lot of replies. I had forgotten about posting this thread! Thanks for all the advice guys.

BobNewYork said:

May be a bit late catem: I usually develop Delta 3200 in Xtol 1+1 for 20 minutes at 24 deg. C. Seems to work out well. I agitate for the first minute, then four inversions every minute. That's for an EI of 3200. This additional dilution seems to keep the highlights from blocking up.

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Hi Bob, thanks for the reply.

I used Xtol at stock in the end and am pleased with the way the negs look - I agitated quite gently, as your method but 3 inversions per minute. Have to say I haven't tried printing yet, but the highlights look to be O.K. I think I will also try diluted 1:1 to compare.

I mix 5 liters of Xtol and keep it in a container filled to the brim. I use it stock strength, developing two rolls of 135 at a time in a two-reel Paterson tank. After development, I pour the used developer back into the container. I don't replenish. After developing 25 rolls, I add 15% to the development time, and after another 25 rolls again add 15%. (I've devised a simple time-conversion table for this.) After 75 or so rolls, I discard the solution and mix a new batch.

This method is easy to work with and gives quite predictable results and I'm happy with it.

jlehmus said:

I mix 5 liters of Xtol and keep it in a container filled to the brim. I use it stock strength, developing two rolls of 135 at a time in a two-reel Paterson tank. After development, I pour the used developer back into the container. I don't replenish. After developing 25 rolls, I add 15% to the development time, and after another 25 rolls again add 15%. (I've devised a simple time-conversion table for this.) After 75 or so rolls, I discard the solution and mix a new batch.

This method is easy to work with and gives quite predictable results and I'm happy with it.

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That is my schedule of increase as well.

Does Kodak make a replenisher for Xtol?

Kodak states that Xtol is its own replenisher. (Sounds a little immoral to me!!!!)

So like Dinafine, Edwal 12 and D777 just add fresh Xtrol. Goes on forever? I have know D76 users that claim to have reprenlished D76 for years at a time.
I used Xtol and liked it but stopped due to sudden death of 5 liters, would have adding fresh Xtol made a differnace?

I'd assume that would be the case. I still can't understand your "Five Litre Death Syndrome" though. For quite a few years now I've made up 5 litres of stock and diluted it to working strength as I needed it. Probably takes me anywhere between 2 and 6 weeks to use up - and over that period the container is increasingly "not full". Never had an issue. Thought I did once - but it was a roll of TMX I'd inadvertently exposed at EI 6400!! Couldn't blame anyone for that. But obviously from this thread it's not just you.

Maybe 10 years ago, mixed up 5 liters, 2 or 3 weeks later just gave out. At the time this seemed to be an issue, sudden death as opposed to just petering out over time. I dont recall the roll count as I was using 1:1 and dumping. I am reconsidering X trol as I am slowing using up all of my old stock and want to use a developer that I dont need mail order.

Paul, was the packaging the old style packaging 10 years ago? With the smaller pt A bag made from paper? Because as I understand it that was the culprit. The part A bag allowed something to oxidize or somehow go bad if the package sat on the shelf too long. Then Kodak changed the packaging to mylar and fixed the problem.. as I understand it. I can attest that Kodak did indeed change the packaging some years ago.

Hi
I fill the fresh XTOL in 5 glas bottles at 1 liter filled up to the top!
I use XTOL replinished in my huge 2 gallon tank undiluted for a bit over a year and all was fine. With every new development i was giving 1 liter fresh developer to it after I was taking one liter out!
Now I do the same at 1:1 which is not recomanded by Kodak but for 5 month it worked also this way perfect.
But its always in a dark and cold place if not in use!
In my opinion in full strenghs it lasts almost forever with replinishing!
Cheers Armin