X tol in very Hot water

leve · Dec 23, 2014

Hello, any bad experience with mixing xtol in water That is too hot?
thanks a lot in advance
Jesús

Athiril · Dec 23, 2014

No, I routinely mix in tap hot water.

pentaxuser · Dec 23, 2014

I take it that you have already mixed the Xtol in hot water then something made you wonder if your "hot" was too hot and has rendered the Xtol at worst useless or at best defective.

I think it unlikely but what temperature was your "too hot" water? Could you for instance stand to put your hands into the water as you mixed?

pentaxuser

leve · Dec 23, 2014

I would not stand it. In fact i did not use the developer yet
What could be the effects?

fotch · Dec 23, 2014

Why not follow the mfg instructions? They probably had good reasons.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 23, 2014

I agree with Michael, it's not a good idea to exceed 50C when mixing chemicals. The higher the temperature the greater the chance of oxidation. In addition there is a point where a higher temperature does not change the rate of dissolution. At this point stirring becomes more important in getting solids in contact with the water.

Sirius Glass · Dec 23, 2014

fotch said:
Why not follow the mfg instructions? They probably had good reasons.

What RTMF???

It is probably ok but do not make a habit of it.

john_s · Dec 23, 2014

I mix Xtol in water a bit hotter than recommended so that it dissolves reasonable fast in half the normal volume of water. Not a lot hotter, but maybe 8degC or a tad more hotter. I find it handy to have smaller bottles, and concentrated dev can last a bit longer (maybe to make up for using too-hot water?).

pentaxuser · Dec 24, 2014

leve said:
I would not stand it. In fact i did not use the developer yet
What could be the effects?

I think you are saying that you could not have placed your hands under the water without pain or at least extreme discomfort. If that is the case then it suggests that the water was much hotter than 50C and as others have said it might have destroyed or seriously affected some of the Xtol ingredients

As you will not know until you try to develop a film you have two choices

1. Dump the Xtol and buy more and use the correct temperature

2. If you have a film where you can sacrifice the first couple of negatives then clip off the first few inches of the film and develop it in your "hot water" Xtol and examine the results to determine if there has been damage to the Xtol

Even if there has been no apparent damage it may be that the overly hot water has affected the Xtol's shelf life so its keeping properties may be affected

I'd dump it if it were me.

pentaxuser

hka · Dec 25, 2014

On the Xtol package Kodak recommend a temp. from 68-84˚K or 18-29˚C.

Truzi · Dec 25, 2014

hka said:
On the Xtol package Kodak recommend a temp. from 68-84˚K or 18-29˚C.

I don't think most of us can achieve a temperature that low (68-84 Kelvin)
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2014

hka said:
On the Xtol package Kodak recommend a temp. from 68-84˚K or 18-29˚C.

68-84˚K chills me to the bone, but then so does 68-84˚R.

RattyMouse · Dec 25, 2014

Truzi said:
I don't think most of us can achieve a temperature that low (68-84 Kelvin)
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Well considering that Kodak had a nuclear reactor in Kodak Park, they problem could do ultra low cooling for XTOL.

Sirius Glass · Dec 25, 2014

On the other hand, the OP would have seriously and siriusly burned his hand if he had been using water as hot as 50°C. Water at 50°F would have presented other problems for the XTOL.

hka · Dec 26, 2014

Oeeps, typo must be 68-84˚F.
But you guys you are smart enough to know what is meant...

pentaxuser · Dec 26, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
On the other hand, the OP would have seriously and siriusly burned his hand if he had been using water as hot as 50°C.

This was my fear when I asked how hot was hot and got back the reply that it was too hot to be able to able to bear it. The question the effect of water that is too hot to bear has on Xtol remains to be answered. Maybe we should hope that the OP tries a clip test as I suggested and if everything turns out OK or not then he tells us and we learn whether very hot water just burns skin but leaves Xtol in perfect condition or not

pentaxuser

Rich Ullsmith · Dec 26, 2014

Sure, increased temperature increases rate of oxidation. But increased temperature also means less dissolved oxygen in solution to begin with. I routinely mix powder developers at higher temperature for the purpose of increased shelf life.

Some things can't be avoided, like pouring the powder into water (mixing in oxygen) stirring the solution (stirring in oxygen) and decanting. But higher temperature means less oxygen in the first place, and also more difficult to dissolve oxygen during mixing. Unless Dektol, D-76, Xtol whatever will turn into apple juice at 50c, that has not been my experience.

X tol in very Hot water

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