X-Synch Issue in Large Format

[JWMster]

I've been using my Nikon Lenses with an X-synch together with a Flashpoint Trigger mounted on a Kaiser shoe to trigger my Flashpoint (Godox Adorama-style) strobes. Works fine. This afternoon, I mounted the same setup to a Rodenstock lens (analog not digital) and got nothing. There's something about the lens that is not firiing the hot shoe. Possibilities include: 1) Synch cable isn't right for this lens? 2) Connection between the shutter and the X is busted? 3) Clean the contacts on the shutter cable button n the lens, or 4) Anything else.

The lens is new-to-me and this is my first time around the block with it. It's a 180mm Macro Sironar and otherwise in pretty nice shape. I'm curious whether there are other synch cables that might fit more tightly.... though I tend to think that's not the issue. BTW, I did replace the batteries in testing on the odd chance that it needed more juice in the trigger, but I don't think so. Usually the Flashpoint trigger will show a red or green light on the trigger itself when the circuit closes through the lens / shutter cable. That's the case with all the other lenses I"ve tried that DO trigger the flashes.

Thanks!

 

[MattKing]

I think we need some more info.
Do I assume correctly that the Nikon lenses you swapped out and the Macro Sironar lens you swapped in are lens and shutter combinations?
If so, the X-synch is built into the respective shutters, not the lenses themselves.
Have you checked the X-synch on the Macro Sironar shutter?
Are you sure that the synch on the Macro Sironar shutter is set to X, and not M or FP?

 

[wiltw]

Since the only difference between the setups is the lens+shutter, one can immediately conclude that the circuit is not being closed by the flash contacts within the Rodenstock lens' shutter.
One can confirm that everything downstream from the Rodenstock is working merely by shorting the center pin to the outside ring of the synch cable with a paper clip, at the end of the cable where it would usually plug into the PC contact on the Rodenstock.
The sync (M vs. FP vs. X) should NOT matter at all...only the timing of the flash contacts closing vs. the shutter blades opening is altered with change of sync mode.

 

[MattKing]

The sync (M vs. FP vs. X) should NOT matter at all...only the timing of the flash contacts closing vs. the shutter blades opening is altered with change of sync mode.

This is correct - but .....
I have dealt with medium format leaf shutter lenses where the position of the synch selector switch was finicky, and when it was off, or on the wrong synch setting, the flash would not flash.
Shutters that aren't regularly serviced seem to be prone to issues with flash synch.

 

[koraks]

There's something about the lens that is not firiing the hot shoe.

I'd start by verifying this is indeed the case, by e.g. rigging up a battery, LED and resistor through the sync contact. The LED should momentarily blink when the shutter is tripped. It'll help to use a bright LED and push a decent amount of current through it; use a relatively low-value resistor. Using an experimental setup like this allows you to more directly witness what's going on and also makes it easier to probe into the x-connector on the shutter to try and connect properly to the inner and outer contacts. Be sure to verify your experimental setup with a known-good shutter so you know that the setup works.

If you still get no response this way, there's a problem with the shutter as such, which implies opening it up and fixing whatever issue is inside.

 

[JWMster]

Thanks folks! Yes Matt, the Mamiya RB type lenses have choices and a switch for the contact type. If there's one on the LF shutter, it's with a set screw on VERY tiny lettering. I haven't seen one and simply switched out the lens for my Nikon 210mm and everything worked. I'll have to check that on the errant shutter this morning to see if there's a different shutter on the Rodenstock, and then some tiny switch I've missed. But in terms of the hot shoe, the synch connection, trigger and strobe lights - all work and fire normally with my other lenses. So it's something about this lens as.... like I said, the trigger normally shows a light on the unit when the shutter fires - and does so with every other lens, but not the Rodenstock. And the note about rigging up a battery (Koraks) seems to be replicating this - unless I'm mistaking. And yes, I'd be pretty sure it's not been serviced prior to my acquiring it.

FWIW, the lens is made in Germany (Rodenstock) and the Copal - No. 1 in Japan, and the connection point is clearly labeled "X". I don't see any switches or set screws other than to disassemble the shutter (though I will take the lens off the lensboard later today to have a look there on the odd possibility there would be something there).

Are these things DIY (which I think if there are springs to go flying off somewhere sounds like a bad idea - for me), or can normal techs handle this - i.e. is it simple?

 

[ic-racer]

Testing shutter synch should be part of any CLA if you send the lens off.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Testing shutter synch should be part of any CLA if you send the lens off.

True for any camera. I recall with considerable bitterness sending a Nikkormat FTN off for a CLA and to have a broken X-sync terminal repaired. When it came back the X-sync terminal was intact and fired an electronic flash. I lost I don't know how many K'chrome close-up shots with flash. They all came back horribly underexposed. The light dawned. I checked further. The many-times cursed technician (so-called) had wired X-sync to the M terminal and M to the X terminal. Make sure that on X the shutter is open when the flash fires.

 

[JWMster]

Thanks guys! Pro Camera in Charlottesville, VA can do the service for $ 135. Will check it out.

 

[JWMster]

Turns out Pro Camera is working repairs in batch submission these days and still working the caboodle of gear submitted to them in May 2023. So in looking at Precision Camera and filling out their forms, is there a simple way to remove a lens from the shutter, or do you recommend submitting the whole - Front, shutter and rear element - for review and repair?

 

[_T_]

It’s a risk either way. You’re either shipping a bunch of glass and hoping nothing happens to it or you’re shipping the unprotected delicate innards of the shutter and hoping nothing happens to it.

Either way you want to pack it very securely and pay whatever extra to insure the value of the package.

 

[Dan Fromm]

It’s a risk either way. You’re either shipping a bunch of glass and hoping nothing happens to it or you’re shipping the unprotected delicate innards of the shutter and hoping nothing happens to it.

Huh? I have a lens in shutter in front of me. 90/8 Super Angulon, much abused, in a Compur #00. I just unscrewed the cells from the shutter. The shutter's innards are safely inside its case, as they were when the cells were in. No bunch of loose glass, either. Which shutter were you thinking of?

 

[Sharktooth]

Have you tried it with a different sync cord? Maybe the sync cord fitting is a little loose on the one you're currently using, and not making good contact to the fitting on the shutter. I'd try it with a different cord before going to the expense and bother of sending it out for service.

 

[_T_]

Huh? I have a lens in shutter in front of me. 90/8 Super Angulon, much abused, in a Compur #00. I just unscrewed the cells from the shutter. The shutter's innards are safely inside its case, as they were when the cells were in. No bunch of loose glass, either. Which shutter were you thinking of?

The very delicate shutter and aperture blades which are exposed if you remove the cells.

No loose glass. Don’t know where you got that from. Just the glass in the lens elements. Glass is delicate.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The very delicate shutter and aperture blades which are exposed if you remove the cells.

No loose glass. Don’t know where you got that from. Just the glass in the lens elements. Glass is delicate.

Open the aperture as wide as it will go and cock the shutter. Alternatively, wrap the shutter properly.

Lens caps?

 

[_T_]

Good advice. And you would want to make sure that your lens and or shutter is packed tightly into the box and well cushioned with no room for movement. You don’t want any chance of the levers being jostled out of the positions you set them to, or worse jammed into the shutter body or even snapped right off.

There is still a chance that you pack your shutter up very well and it ends up crushed flat as a pancake by a big old truck. So like I said you also want to spring for the shipping insurance commensurate to the value of replacement of the item.

 

[neilt3]

.

There is still a chance that you pack your shutter up very well and it ends up crushed flat as a pancake by a big old truck. So like I said you also want to spring for the shipping insurance commensurate to the value of replacement of the item.

If a truck drives over it , it won't matter if the lens elements were left on or not to the state of the shutter afterwards !

But on the subject of shipping and insurance, over here glass is not insured .
So if you ship a complete lens it's not insured , wether you can claim anything for the carrier is therefore debatable.
However , take the glass out of your shutter , pack it correctly, and the shutter will be insured .
So if a truck drives over it , you'll get some money back .
Do trucks drive over a lot of your parcels ?
We don't seem to have that problem here , maybe change your shipping firm ?