X-RITE 310T calibration question

CRhymer

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I recently received an X-Rite 310T. It arrived without the calibration wedge, but I have a film of approx. D=3 to calibrate it. My question is: Should the 310T retain calibration values when switched off, but left plugged in, or does it have to be recalibrated each time it is turned on (and allowed to warm up for a few minutes)? When switched off it looses the calibration information. It retains the time/date information for a few hours, but the clock stops when turned off, and resumes when it is powered up again. The on-line instructions say that it should be recalibrated once a week. Does this mean it has to be keep on 24/7 (seems it would burn out the lamp pretty fast)?

Thank you.
Clarence
 
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sanking

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I have not used particular model of X-Rite but in my experience the great majority of densitometers retain their calibration values when powered down. If yours does not it may be because there is a save feature that you did not execute, or there may be something wrong with the unit. The first possibility is more probably IMO, but I would not exclude the second.

Sandy
 

DWThomas

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OK, I know nothing about these beasts, but could there be a dying battery somewhere that backs up a clock and memory chip? It's not too unusual to have electronic equipment with a lithium coin cell or the like tucked away somewhere for such purposes. Since they might last many years in normal service, they could be buried pretty deeply.

Just a thought,

DaveT
 

glbeas

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I have an Xrite reflection densitometer and it did have a dead battery in it. It was one of those flat cells like goes in a watch but it had tabs to be soldered to the board. You may have an easier time changing yours as the reflection beeastie was pretty compact and crowded.
 

Photo Engineer

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Clarence;

Ours retained their calibration when switched off, but we always found some drift over time. It is always a good idea to recalibrate as often as possible.

PE
 
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CRhymer

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Chan Tran said:
Check out this link
http://www.xrite.com/product_overview.aspx?ID=24&Action=support&SupportID=14

It would retain the calibration after power down.
Click to expand...


Hello Chan,

That's the protocol I have been using, so it must be a machine fault. The unit was sold as in excellent condition, so I expected all the functions to work.

My concern is that there may be some more serious fault. If there is a battery backup, it may be mercury for a unit this old. Could be hard to replace.

Thank you for the info.

Hello PE,

I agree, it is good to calibrate often, and the calibration does not take long, but it would be nice to know the unit works properly. Thank you both for confirming what I suspected.

Cheers,
Clarence
 

Chan Tran

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You film with a density of 3 is too high to calibrate. The high density in the xrite calibration wedge is about 1.50.
 
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CRhymer

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Chan Tran said:
You film with a density of 3 is too high to calibrate. The high density in the xrite calibration wedge is about 1.50.
Click to expand...


Hello Chan,

Are you sure? This is for transmission. The manual says:
....
10. The Display Panel displays the Cal Hi density value for Visual (or the
first color selected), and the Keyboard is automatically set in numeric
format. As necessary, enter the Cal Hi density for Visual, using a four digit
value. For example, if the value is 3.06D, press 3, 0, 6, 0.
“3.060” correctly appears.
11. When the desired value appears, press CAL-SET.
...

Now I realize this is just an example, but it seems odd that they would use an example so far from the one usually used (it is their calibration standard after all).

There is only a two point calibration for this model. D=0.000 (no film) and D=Hi. There are no calibration points for linearity in between. The maximum density according to the specs. is D=4.0, so 3.060 seems reasonable, especially since it is suspiciously close to the Stouffer step 21 of 3.050 IIRC and is near the upper end of the range most often used and for which the specs claim the greatest accuracy (depending on the aperture size). I believe the X-rite wedge uses step number 3 of 4 for Cal Hi.

I may be really off base here, I am a total novice at this.

The reflectance calibration for the 310 gives D=2.230 as a Cal Hi example in the manual.

I don't have the reflectance head.

Please advise. I am all ears.

Cheers,
Clarence

added info: Kirk Keyes has some info about the X-rite wedge here:

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00DYDU
 
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Kirk Keyes

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Hi Clarence -

I just looked at the post you linked to by me, I can't really add much more other than the X-rite Transmission step wedge has 4 steps on it. You can calibrate with the 3.0 step and then check the linearity of you instrument with the other 3 steps (about 0.3, 1.5, and 3.75). That will tell you if your machine is functioning. Allow yourself +/- about 0.03 error in reading the check values before sweating that you have a bad instrument.

Kirk

PS - it was really nice meeting you at the Emulsion making class at the Formulary last June!
 

PeterB

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CRhymer said:
I recently received an X-Rite 310T. It arrived without the calibration wedge, but I have a film of approx. D=3 to calibrate it. ....Clarence
Click to expand...

Hi Clarence, how accurate is your calibration reference of approx D=3 ?
The whole point of having a calibration reference is that it is at least 4 times more accurate (and preferably 10 times more) than the instrument you are calibrating with it.

regards
Peter
 
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CRhymer

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Hello Kirk,

Thank you. Mutual. I just received a stirrer/hotplate. Hope to make an emulsion this week.

As to the X-rite, my concern (aside proper calibration) is that there might be something more seriously wrong, since the unit looses calibration and date/time info when powered down. If it is just a back-up battery, as DWThomas suggests, then I can either replace it or ignore it. I have not found anything on the web, but it may have been very long lived and a factory service item. I don't have the wedge (the vender claims it is a non-included consumable) nor do I have a calibrated Stouffer. I suppose I will need the X-rite wedge to accurately calibrate the colour channels? Also, do you use an aperture smaller than 3mm, and when would one need them? The unit was shipped when new from the factory, according to the manual, with a set of three, but the one I received has only the 3mm aperture. The vendor claims that the apertures are consumables and not included.

Thanks for your help and the wedge "D" values.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
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CRhymer

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Hello Peter,

Thanks for the info.

Well, since I started checking this out, I found my Stouffer 21 step (packed away in storage). It is not a calibrated one, that is, traceable to a more accurate standard. Therefore, it can not be used as an a standard to accurately calibrate the unit and it can only be used to check linearity within its (unknown) accuracy. It can be used, I believe, to determine if the unit accepts calibration within the usual range. It can also be used to determine repeatability of measurements made sequentially and calibration drift over a number of hours. It seems that I will need to order the X-rite wedge to use the unit precisely and accurately, but I was hoping to determine whether the unit is working before ordering the wedge.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
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Chan Tran

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Clarence! I am sorry and you're right. I have 2 of those 319-68 Xrite step wedges. And yes Cal high are around 3.00 density. (they are a little different on each wedge). The step 2 which is for linearity check is around 1.50.
 
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CRhymer

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Chan Tran said:
Clarence! I am sorry and you're right. I have 2 of those 319-68 Xrite step wedges. And yes Cal high are around 3.00 density. (they are a little different on each wedge). The step 2 which is for linearity check is around 1.50.
Click to expand...

Hi Chan,

Thank you for the correction.

Cheers,
Clarence
 

dcdadvancedtech

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Battery and Cal information on the 310T

The 310T, as a transmission densitometer, is designed to measure densities up to 5 or 6. Reflection densitometers top out at about 2.00. The statement that the calibration point should be about 1.5 is correct for a reflection densitometer, but for a transmission densitometer the calibration point is about 3.00.

The problem with holding the calibration is due to a dead battery in the unit. The clock stopping is caused by the same problem. THe battery is located inside the unit and is fairly easy to access, but the battery is soldered into the unit. Although a pain when you want to replace it, ithis allowed the battery to last effectively for about 3-5 years! Someone fairly handy with a soldering iron can remove and replace it themselves.

THe battery and a calibration reference are avaialble. The part number for the battery is FE15-09 and costs $31.59. The calibration reference part number is 31968 and costs $41.00. The unit can still be repaired and recertified through X-Rite for $480.00. They would replace the battery, provide you with a new calibration reference and recertify the unit. If other components or systems need to be replaced, it would all be done for this price.

Call X-Rite to set up the service at 888-826-3046. You can buy the calibrationr reference on line at www.xrite.com. Just go to the online store.

Pragmatically, holding the calibration value is a convenience but not a necessity. Turn it on, let it warm up for about 5 minutes and calibrate it. The units are designed to stay on for hours at a time as that is how labs used them, constantly. As was stated in anohter post, the calibration reference has a number of steps on it. Always use the step marked CAL or Calibration to actually calibrate the unit. Use the other steps to check the linearity of it. If the values are +/- 0.02 or 0.03, you are fine. Keep in mind that density on a denitometer is just like neutral density filters for the camera. Ever 0.30 increase in density means you lost 1/2 the light (or is a full stop change). It is a logaritmic relationship.

If it were mine, I would get a new calibration wedge and that's it. If you are going to be using it a great deal of the time, then the flat rate repair to get it completely checked out and back into full working condition is the way to go.

Good luck and have fun!

 
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CRhymer

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Hello dcdadvancedtech,

Thank you for the detailed response. This is very helpful. Thank you everyone who responded. I was holding off calling X-Rite until I had gathered all the info possible, so I could ask the right questions and decide if the unit is worth the repair costs.

Cheers,
Clarence

Added info: For future reference, in conversation with X-Rite today, they tell me that the battery part number is actually SE15-09.
 
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CRhymer

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PhotoSmith said:
Inexpensive calibration step wedges can be purchased from Stouffer Industries.

http://www.stouffer.net/TransPage.htm
Click to expand...

Hello PhotoSmith,

I have a 3 21-step Stouffers, one for my Nuarc Flip top Plate Burner, and two projection wedges, TP120 and TP 4x5. Non of them are calibrated, and only go to D=3.05, which will set the Cal Hi, but not check the unit at D=4.0. Stouffer makes a 5-step wedge the T5110 which goes to D=4.00. The calibrated model is only $15.55, but the tolerance at D=3.00 is .10. Also, I believe the X-Rite wedges have calibrated values for the 3 colour channels as well as the visible, for $41.00.

I do not know if Stouffer has a comparable product. I have found them to be very helpful in the past.

My existing wedges may be OK to calibrate for measuring relative density, but I still won't be able to check the linearity of the unit, or measure absolute density, to a better standard than my un-calibrated wedges.

Do you know of a calibrated Stouffer wedge comparable to the X-Rite?

Thank you.

Cheers,
Clarence
 
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CRhymer

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Hello PhotoSmith,

Sorry to have not said this in the last post.

Welcome to APUG! I hadn't noticed that it was your first post.

Cheers,
Clarence
 

Donald Miller

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Charlie, I have had a couple of the Xrites with dead batteries in the past. I found an aftermarket battery...albeit I needed to solder the required tabs to the battery and then into the board...but it works fine and the cost is less, if that interests you.

As I recall, the last battery was found at a local Walmart store...not sure if they have those up where you live.
 
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CRhymer

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Hello Donald,

Actually my name is Clarence (it happens to the best of people). Thank you for the info. There is no Walmart in Fort Smith, but I can get someone to bring one from Winnipeg next week. Do you happen to recall the name/number/brand of the battery? I called X-Rite in the US and the helpful man told me it is 2.8V (I'm not sure what type of battery that would be). I would have ordered it, but they only ship UPS to Canada, which is prohibitive to my location. He told me that Docucom in Canada handles service here. I will call them today, and will report back in case anyone else in Canada needs service (perhaps cheaper shipping costs).

I have no problem soldering in a new battery, even if it doesn't last more than a couple of years. One could even solder in a holder for easier replacements. I suppose that X-Rite either thought the batteries would last a very long time, or that people would send them back for factory service. I have a couple of old movie cameras that had mercury batteries for the meter. The manuals claimed they would last the lifetime of the camera - true - sort of. Super8 is still around and the cameras still work, although the original batteries are long dead.

Cheers,
Clarence
 

Donald Miller

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Clarence, My face is red...I am sorry for having typed the wrong name.

I don't recall the identification of the battery...but I do recall that I got my last one from Walmart. I guess you could remove the old battery from the board...noting the polarity and send the old battery along with your friend.

I'm sorry, once again.
 

PhotoSmith

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CRhymer said:
Hello PhotoSmith,

Sorry to have not said this in the last post.

Welcome to APUG! I hadn't noticed that it was your first post.

Cheers,
Clarence
Click to expand...

Clarence,

Thanks for the welcome! It sounds like you might be better off with the X-Rite calibration step wedge. I thought the X-Rite price was about $60.00 and the Stouffer calibrated wedges were about $30.00, but I didn't realize the Stouffer had a .10 variance!

Let me know what you decide to do.
 
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