X-rays and travelling with film

mooseontheloose · Jan 13, 2018

Sarath said:
I have more than 500+ 35MM films, I am relocating to india(All of them are less than ISO 400). My only option is to send them through checked in baggage. Will it get affected?

That is not your only option. You could mail them to yourself. If you put them in checked luggage you might as well throw them away as they will likely be ruined by the x-rays.

I've moved a a few times internationally - Canada to Japan (and back, and back again), and Canada to France (and back). I've also done some big trips with 150+ rolls of film. In every case I either carried as much as I could with carry-on and/or sent the rest through courier/mail.

Svenedin · Jan 22, 2018

Sarath said:
I have more than 500+ 35MM films, I am relocating to india(All of them are less than ISO 400). My only option is to send them through checked in baggage. Will it get affected?

Most likely it will be affected. I forgot to take a finished roll of Ektar 100 out of my camera and in a rush to pack (I overslept) I put it in my hold bag. It is away being processed. I will report back on what happened.

Young He · Jan 22, 2018

I would not recommend asking for a hand check. I requested once one time at Boston and got it accepted, however there appears to be a dangerous material coating the outside of film canisters that sets off detectors. Probably a contaminated swab or something, but I ended up having airport security go through all my luggage while I almost missed my flight. Ended up having my film put through the xray anyway, so I wasted twenty minutes for nothing. Film came out fine, so no worries.

I also recently went on a trip where I put my film (200 iso) through detectors several times and everything was fine. I would not recommend too many times, as xray effects do add up and could potentially fog your film.

Not sure if someone has mentioned, but Kodak has a very nice "manual" of sorts where they put unexposed film through check-in bag xray machines and noted the damage. Quite helpful, although I assume you will put the film through carry on, where the effects (if any) are less noticeable.

@Sarath

I have a nice lead lined bag for a few rolls, and I believe there are larger lead lined bags that block xrays. Those could work for your application, although things differ. As someone has mentioned before shipping them to yourself is the best option, although precautions would have to be taken because carriers occasionally xray mail.

lantau · Jan 22, 2018

On my way home from Hong Kong, two months ago, I did my usual routine of taking the clear bags with my film rolls out to have them scanned in their own tray. The woman and the conveyor assumed I wanted them hand checked and before I could even say anything she took it past the scanner. The gentleman at the end then had a close look, some touching and also took a close look at my, already scanned, hand luggage.

Then in Dubai they didn't want me to take anything out of the bag, not even electronics. Since it was a new line that just opened and I was the first one I didn't make a fuss and just let it go through. At the end I think it just doesn't matter as long as it's not the hold. I had unexposed Fuji Venus 800 and Natura 1600 in there as well. I'll see when I will eventually use them.

Vaughn · Jan 22, 2018

The day before I left Japan (Dec 27th), my son was suppose to meet me at my hotel and give me his large suitcase to take with me on my flight. I had stashed 5 rolls of Acros100 (120) that I had exposed in Kyoto in that suitcase so that I did not have to haul them around southern Japan. We missed connecting and he ended up flying the suitcase home to SFO as check-in baggage. I developed that film today -- no sign of any problems. I am very surprised.

Sirius Glass · Jan 23, 2018

Carry on every roll you can, even if it costs you time and money. Checking it is luggage is just a bad move. Perhaps you can ship it in a box labeled "Do not X-Ray, Inspect if necessary."

Sarath · Jan 23, 2018

Svenedin said:
Most likely it will be affected. I forgot to take a finished roll of Ektar 100 out of my camera and in a rush to pack (I overslept) I put it in my hold bag. It is away being processed. I will report back on what happened.

Please let us know, that will be good for us. if there is no sign of fogging, I will send all the films as luggage.

MattKing · Jan 23, 2018

Sarath said:
Please let us know, that will be good for us. if there is no sign of fogging, I will send all the films as luggage.

They don't x-ray all checked bags. But they x-ray a fairly high percentage of them, and often on a random basis.
If a bag is x-rayed, then any film in it will likely be damaged.
There is no effective means of requesting that a checked bag not be exposed to x-ray.
The so called "lead bags" will not be effective either - and most likely will result in your bags receiving a higher dose of x-ray.

Svenedin · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
They don't x-ray all checked bags. But they x-ray a fairly high percentage of them, and often on a random basis.
If a bag is x-rayed, then any film in it will likely be damaged.
There is no effective means of requesting that a checked bag not be exposed to x-ray.
The so called "lead bags" will not be effective either - and most likely will result in your bags receiving a higher dose of x-ray.

I am under the impression that every single hold bag is X-rayed these days without exception. Some are X-rayed from multiple angles.

mooseontheloose · Jan 23, 2018

Check this link from Kodak about the kind of damage X-rays can do to your film. One or two people getting lucky does not mean that you will too. However, if you want to chance it, and are able to replace all the film if it is damaged, then I guess it’s up to you.

https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

Svenedin · Jan 23, 2018

mooseontheloose said:
Check this link from Kodak about the kind of damage X-rays can do to your film. One or two people getting lucky does not mean that you will too. However, if you want to chance it, and are able to replace all the film if it is damaged, then I guess it’s up to you.

https://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/tib/tib5201.shtml

Exactly. The OP has so much film that it would be frankly daft to put it in checked baggage. The X-ray equipment varies between airports and some will use higher doses. Also any bag of interest may receive multiple doses.

mnemosyne · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
[...] a well organized clear plastic bag of film is more likely to be scanned or inspected once than film spread out through your bags.

Agulliver said:
I usually take film in a zippy bag, or sometimes in two. I've never had films questioned by airport security, but have had photo equipment (see above). I do advise against loading a camera with film, in case security wish to examine the camera. If you wish to shoot film from the aeroplane window, load it when you get to yours seat. On your return trip, likewise rewind any 35mm films, wind on any 120's....make sure your film isn't in the camera in case they want to see inside the camera. Also remember this if you have your cameras in checked baggage...remove the films first

This is VERY sound advice. Any film loaded in a camera or put together on a scanner tray together with random other stuff has a potential risk of being scanned repeatedly as "collateral damage" of any object that happens to be on the same tray and is picked out by the security staff as suspicious during the first pass. While repeated scanning at the same check point is probably still safe for your film, it is also completely unnecessary and can be easily avoided by following some very simple rules:

at the security check, have all your film ready in a dedicated transparent zip lock bag and put the bag on a dedicated tray (= with nothing else on it)
don't have any film loaded in any of your cameras (either carry on or checked baggage)
relax and enjoy your trip
and of course, whatever anecdotal evidence people come up with, NEVER EVER put film in checked baggage

I do not bother with requesting hand checks. They are unnecessary (except maybe in some special, isolated cases) and simply not worth the hassle. On most airports in the world (outside the US) requesting a hand check will be kind of a hit or miss thing. Ensuing discussions may stress yourself and already stressed security people further and will do a favor to no one. Even if you are granted a hand check, it may lead to considerable delays = more stress.

RattyMouse · Jan 23, 2018

MattKing said:
They don't x-ray all checked bags. But they x-ray a fairly high percentage of them, and often on a random basis.
If a bag is x-rayed, then any film in it will likely be damaged.
There is no effective means of requesting that a checked bag not be exposed to x-ray.
The so called "lead bags" will not be effective either - and most likely will result in your bags receiving a higher dose of x-ray.

Yes they do. Once the bag goes behind the wall, it's in an X ray machine. My last flight to China I checked one bag. As I was waiting for my boarding pass to be printed, the agent just paused and waited. It turned out my bag failed the X-Ray and I had to go into another room. The conveyor belt delivered my bag into this room and the security person asked me to open it. I had a full size can of shaving cream and this is what was flagged by the Xray. Once they saw that my bag was cleared.

I get the impression that no boarding pass will be printed until your checked bag clears security. There are X Ray machines right on the belt that takes your bag away. It is X Rayed while you are still at the counter.

RattyMouse · Jan 23, 2018

Svenedin said:
I am under the impression that every single hold bag is X-rayed these days without exception. Some are X-rayed from multiple angles.

You are correct. Every bag is checked.

Vaughn · Jan 23, 2018

I certainly have no wish to have my personal luck used as any indication that it is safe to have film in check-in baggage...not in Japan nor elsewhere. I was meerly expressing my disbelief in finding my 5 rolls of 120 to be fine. Okay -- one roll only had 1.5 images on it with the remaining roll blank (w/frame numbers) -- a good test for possible fogging, but some camera operator error involved somehow.

Svenedin · Jan 23, 2018

Vaughn said:
I certainly have no wish to have my personal luck used as any indication that it is safe to have film in check-in baggage...not in Japan nor elsewhere. I was meerly expressing my disbelief in finding my 5 rolls of 120 to be fine. Okay -- one roll only had 1.5 images on it with the remainder blank (w/frame numbers) -- a good test for possible fogging, but some camera operator error involved somehow.

I think it’s useful to know from your post that if exposed film has been accidentally placed in checked luggage it should not be assumed that it is ruined and thrown away but should be processed as usual. There may be a pleasant surprise.

I was talking to a colleague this evening who is a radiation expert and a hobbyist film photographer (but not an expert in airport security). He told me that modern digital scanners both for carry-on and checked luggage use much lower doses of radiation than they did in the past. He estimated that the dose from a carry-on luggage scanner was about the same as the background radiation from leaving a film in a drawer for 2 weeks. The checked baggage scanners do use a bit more but not much.

wiltw · Jan 23, 2018

Yes, the airport security 'X-ray' uses much lower dose to image carry-on luggage. But checked bags will be assumed to go thru longer-duration higher dose X-Ray and even thru CT machines specifically designed for luggage inspection! CT imaging tends to involve much higher dose than the security 'X-ray'. CT scan creates a full 3-D image by rotating a narrow band of x-rays around whatever it's inspecting, and digitally compiling the result into a multicolored image, and due to the fact that it is not two 2-D images, the 3D CT inherently exposes contents to more radiation than two 2D projections.

Some newer CT technology uses dual-energy computed tomography (CT) technology to measure both density and atomic number. The reality is that not 100% of airports/airlines use CT to inspect 100% of checked bags, which explains how folks like Vaughn are pleasantly surprised that their film survived. One machine can scan up to 250 bags per hour, which explains why 100% of checked pieces cannot be accomodated necessarily.

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2018

It was very tempting to just toss them, but thought that even damaged film might have some use. But I am looking at the developed rolls of ACROS100 on the light table. They were developed the same way (HC-110)...some were hand-carried and put through carry-on x-rays several times, and several that went thru check-in once plus once through a carry-on x-ray. Can't tell them apart. Just plain lucky.

mnemosyne · Jan 24, 2018

Vaughn said:
It was very tempting to just toss them, but thought that even damaged film might have some use.

There is a dutch documentary photographer, Rob Hornstra, who went to Grozny, capital of Chechnya, with his film camera (Mamiya 7, IIRC) a couple of years ago. Because of the unstable situation in this country there were security checkpoints and x-ray scanners more or less wherever he went or stayed. As a result, all of his film got ruined by x-rays. He decided to actually make use of the x-ray damage and let it be part of the story the pictures tell. He published a picture book of these "ruined" pictures, titled "Safety First".

Arbitrarium · Jan 24, 2018

When you put all your films in a clear bag, do you put them in canister only? I imagine a bag full of little black capsules wouldn't go down well.

lantau · Jan 24, 2018

Arbitrarium said:
When you put all your films in a clear bag, do you put them in canister only? I imagine a bag full of little black capsules wouldn't go down well.

In a modern peace time airport it's no problem. If you travel through checkpoints in Iraq or Syria then who knows.

Svenedin · Jan 24, 2018

Well the film that got X-rayed in my checked bag shows no damage that I can see. I would certainly not recommend that anyone else deliberately puts film in their checked bag but this was an accident on my part.

The film is Ektar 100, 120 roll film. The picture is from the top of The Rock of Gibraltar (1,398 feet) looking towards the Atlas Mountains of Morocco (which are 14 miles away). Taken on a Fuji GF670 1/60s f22 last week. The gun is a 9.2 inch breech loader installed in 1901. There are 3 remaining, originally there were 14. The range is 29,000 yards (16.5 miles) whereas it is only 25,000 yards across the straight.

Sarath · Jan 25, 2018

I know this thread is to discuss x-ray , but I wanted to appreciate this photograph. It came in very excellent way. If possible and if no personal pictures are there, please share some more exotic pictures from your trip.

Svenedin · Jan 25, 2018

Thank you Sarath. Rather than clutter this thread you can see a few of my pictures here: https://flic.kr/p/23L1EdF

BradS · Jan 26, 2018

RattyMouse said:
As expected, today's carry on scanners don't damage film..

+1

Indeed. I don't know why we have to keep punishing this poor deceased horse.

X-rays and travelling with film

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