X RAY FILMS AS PHOTOGRAPHIC FILMS

GEDALU · Oct 2, 2014

i WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF SOME ONE HAS EXPERIMENT IN TAKING PHOTOGRAPHY USING X RAY FILMS AS PHOTOGRAPHIC FILMS AND IN THIS CASE HOW DOES IT DEVELOP (EXCUSE IF MY ENGLISH IS NOT GOOD BUT I AM FROM ARGENTINE AND SPEAK SPANISH) BEST REGARDS

DWThomas · Oct 2, 2014

Hi, welcome to APUG.

Your English is fine, though I do wish you would turn off your shift lock!

I have been shooting some pinhole photos on Fuji HR-T x-ray film that I have been reasonably happy with. X-ray film is not normally specified for regular photographic use, so there are no handy directions on the package. You have to experiment with exposure and development and come up with your own procedures. Searching here should come up with some information you can use for a starting point.

There are green sensitive and blue sensitive x-ray films, the one I've used is green sensitive. Either way they will not provide the spectral response of a panchromatic photographic film, but they can be quite usable.

The good: they are typically a fraction of the cost of photo films.

The not so good: they have relatively soft emulsions, and many, if not most, have emulsion on both sides. The require very careful handling when processing them.

My most recent x-ray film outing.

Good luck!

bvy · Oct 2, 2014

First, welcome to APUG. Second, your English is fine; it's the UPPER CASE that's problematic. Third, I think you're just going to have to experiment. There are many kinds of X-Ray film, and they all seems to work and respond a little bit differently. And information on certain kinds is scarce as it relates to using it for traditional photography. I'm using something called Fuji Super RX-N. It's supposed to be blue sensitive, but I'm finding that it responds to green as well. I rate it between 25 and 50 and have been developing it with a soft grade paper developer (Tetenal Centrabrom S) diluted 1+14, at room temperature, for about two minutes. My main problem is that the film is coated on both sides and next to impossible to develop without scratching the emulsion. I'm using 8x10 and working with trays. I hope you'll experiment with it and share your own findings.

wildbill · Oct 2, 2014

Yes. Use the search window to find the threads on xray film.

vdonovan · Oct 2, 2014

I use Fuji HR-S film, exposed at EI 60, developed in Xtol 1:1 for six minutes. And, yes, it scratches like a bastard.

nathan002 by vdonovan2000, on Flickr

snapguy · Oct 2, 2014

You guys

You guys are driving me crazy. Which side do you expose or do you get a double image? I think I am going to have to try this.

Jim Noel · Oct 2, 2014

It doesn't matter which side you expose. Process under a red safelight in a flat, smooth bottomed tray and with careful handling you will not have a problem. I have only had one scratch since I started using green x-ray film.

Bill Burk · Oct 2, 2014

Hi snapguy...

The film is on a clear base. You use both sides at once.

I think the logic goes like this... People having their X-Ray taken want to get as little X-Ray radiation as possible, so to make the film as sensitive as possible, there is emulsion on BOTH sides so just the bare minimum exposure to X-Rays will give a usable image.

DWThomas · Oct 2, 2014

snapguy said:
You guys are driving me crazy. Which side do you expose or do you get a double image? I think I am going to have to try this.

(Heh, driving me crazy is only a short putt ... )

I just expose it like any other film - but I do cut a small notch in one corner and treat it like the ID notches on regular sheet film so I'm consistent with the 1st emulsion surface. There are those who remove the emulsion side away from the exposed side (after the exposure -- and after development, I think) by taping the film to a piece of glass to seal the edges and brushing it with chlorine bleach. Some claim slightly better sharpness, as the second emulsion surface experiences some diffusion through the thickness of the film base. To me, that sounds like the potential kiss of death in terms of handling something already fragile. Of course, I'm shooting pinhole, so we're not looking for 100 line pairs per mm anyway.

I found with the HR-T I have slowly converged on exposing at about EI 25 - 50, based on shadow detail. In my last go-round, I developed in HC110 1+63 for developing times like 3:30!! I get the impression the emulsion is really thin or really porous (maybe that's why it's so soft) but it seems to process really quickly and tends to be quite contrasty unless I really hold it down. It also seems to clear in about a minute in plain old Kodak non-rapid fixer (of course, I do fix for 3x the clearing time - or more).

Picked up my prize check for one of those pinhole shots last night, told the gallery director I was pretty happy with the shot, considering it was taken without a lens!

Yes -- experimentation is good!

snapguy · Oct 2, 2014

Not

It's not a short putt, it's a gimmee.

AgX · Oct 3, 2014

There are all kind of X-ray films. Of most different characteristics. Often people compare apple to oranges.

MrBrowning · Oct 3, 2014

bvy said:
First, welcome to APUG. Second, your English is fine; it's the UPPER CASE that's problematic. Third, I think you're just going to have to experiment. There are many kinds of X-Ray film, and they all seems to work and respond a little bit differently. And information on certain kinds is scarce as it relates to using it for traditional photography. I'm using something called Fuji Super RX-N. It's supposed to be blue sensitive, but I'm finding that it responds to green as well. I rate it between 25 and 50 and have been developing it with a soft grade paper developer (Tetenal Centrabrom S) diluted 1+14, at room temperature, for about two minutes. My main problem is that the film is coated on both sides and next to impossible to develop without scratching the emulsion. I'm using 8x10 and working with trays. I hope you'll experiment with it and share your own findings.

I bought some of the blue X-Ray (double sided) in 4x5 and had problems with it scratching during development. I went to Lowes and bought a sheet of glass to cover the bottom of the tray and I've had no problems with it since. FWIW I was using 8x10 trays.

bvy · Oct 3, 2014

MrBrowning said:
I bought some of the blue X-Ray (double sided) in 4x5 and had problems with it scratching during development. I went to Lowes and bought a sheet of glass to cover the bottom of the tray and I've had no problems with it since. FWIW I was using 8x10 trays.

So glass is the magic bullet? My platic trays are brand new, and I wouldn't have expected the bottom of the trays (which are smooth) to scratch the film, but apparently that's what's happening...

DWThomas · Oct 3, 2014

For my 8x10 film I've been using smooth bottom trays made by Cesco, they are a sort of soft matte, not shiny surface. I can't say I've seen any problem I attribute to the trays. Of course, with 8x10 I'm only contact printing, I'm sure that helps subdue any minor defects compared with a 6x enlargement or something. I process only one sheet at a time and even wash one sheet at a time (per tray, I cascade a couple of trays for washing).

The idea of hangers and vertical tanks is attractive, but even via ePrey it would be a lot of money for my limited use, I believe they typically require chemistry amounts measured in gallons too.

MrBrowning · Oct 3, 2014

bvy said:
So glass is the magic bullet? My platic trays are brand new, and I wouldn't have expected the bottom of the trays (which are smooth) to scratch the film, but apparently that's what's happening...

For me it was but the trays I have are old with ridges on the bottom. But it seems to have done the trick.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 3, 2014

I've been experimenting with Fuji X-ray film. I've been testing Fuji HRT and Fuji RX. The films have an emulsion on both sides and the corners are rounded. It's really inexpensive film. You can process these films under a red safe light. You have to process Fuji xray film very carefully because the emulsion is very soft when the film is wet. I've been getting pretty decent results. I like to process the film in XTOL. Keep in mind since xray film is either blue or green sensitive, you will get different results than with a panachromatic film. Sure fun experimenting.

Toffle · Oct 3, 2014

I have shot a fair amount of the Fuji HR-T over the last couple of years, and have been quite pleased with my results. I cut 8x10 sheets down to 4x5, so when I load them in the holders, I treat the rounded corner as a reference "notch".

A couple of notes regarding processing... If you are using glass to control scratching, make sure your image side is facing up, or you may get uneven development. Also, there is a tendency for the film to adhere to the glass, which makes changing trays a hassle. Secondly, do a safelight test. I experienced quite a bit of fogging early on until I moved my safelight. Last point - because it is orthochromatic, exposures may not always agree with your light meter. Bracket. I generally have my exposures figured out fairly consistently in the studio, but outdoors I am often way off.

Enjoy.
Cheers,
Tom

bvy · Oct 5, 2014

Glass was indeed the magic bullet. Thanks. I processed two sheets last night with a piece of 8x10 glass in the bottom of the tray. Not a scratch to be found. I did have to make an effort to keep the film afloat, to get both sides thoroughly processed and rinsed. And I take back what I said about my plastic trays; the bottoms aren't perfectly flat (they bow up) and there's a nasty little knot in the plastic right in the middle. It's nothing that would affect paper or film with a base (which would face down). But it's no good for this material, which, if I were going to work with it regularly, I would probably invest in glass trays are something similar.

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2014

Not to cause undue concern, but "emulsion to emulsion" developing of sheet films can cause local development exhaustion - and you might see ghosts. I had this happen where a step wedge on one sheet was developed emulsion to emulsion with another sheet and you can see the step wedge on the other sheet as a result.

Because a step wedge exposes the film significantly, the developer gets exhausted in the highest densities, then it's not available to develop the other sheet.

Probably a non-issue with 2 sheets continually in motion. But with 6 sheets you would have significant sitting time where a pair of sheets is together and not agitated for about a minute between agitation cycles.

mgb74 · Oct 5, 2014

Run, don't walk, to www.largeformatphotography.info. Search the forums and you'll find a lot of info. There is a thread devoted to images on x-ray film - I find the results very impressive.

Edit: Here's one thread: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?48099-X-ray-Film-example-and-comparison

Rick A · Oct 5, 2014

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?80011-Images-shot-on-X-ray-film

MrBrowning · Oct 5, 2014

bvy said:
Glass was indeed the magic bullet. Thanks. I processed two sheets last night with a piece of 8x10 glass in the bottom of the tray. Not a scratch to be found. I did have to make an effort to keep the film afloat, to get both sides thoroughly processed and rinsed. And I take back what I said about my plastic trays; the bottoms aren't perfectly flat (they bow up) and there's a nasty little knot in the plastic right in the middle. It's nothing that would affect paper or film with a base (which would face down). But it's no good for this material, which, if I were going to work with it regularly, I would probably invest in glass trays are something similar.

Glad it worked for you.

Mainecoonmaniac · Oct 5, 2014

I processed 12 5x7 sheets of RX and HRT. Non were scratched processed in hangers. I did discover that RX has an ASA of 100 not 400. HRT has good shadow detail at ASA 400. All the X-ray film was processed under a red safelight.

Wayne · Oct 5, 2014

Toffle said:
I have shot a fair amount of the Fuji HR-T over the last couple of years, and have been quite pleased with my results. I cut 8x10 sheets down to 4x5, so when I load them in the holders, I treat the rounded corner as a reference "notch".

Um...reference to what?

Toffle · Oct 6, 2014

Wayne said:
Um...reference to what?

Sorry, this was in regard to an earlier post:

DWThomas said:
just expose it like any other film - but I do cut a small notch in one corner and treat it like the ID notches on regular sheet film so I'm consistent with the 1st emulsion surface.

My fault for not using the quotes first time around.

Put simply, an 8x10 sheet of HR-T has all four corners rounded; cut to 4x5, that makes one rounded corner per sheet. Rather than cutting a notch as DW does, I simply use that corner as my reference when loading my holders. That way I know which side is the proper orientation for the photo. I suppose I should use DW's system when I shoot 8x10, because I do find myself puzzling over negatives deciding which side is which.

Cheers,
Tom

X RAY FILMS AS PHOTOGRAPHIC FILMS

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