X-Ray Bags not allowed

Kevin Kehler · Apr 7, 2010

I just got back from a trip to Vancouver yesterday, some time with the family. I was lucky in that I called Beau Photography (one of the better photography stores in Canada, even if their website isn't) a couple of weeks ago and bought all of their Kodak TXP in 120 and 220, which I got a family member to store in their freezer until I arrived. As a result, I now have 4 boxes of 120 and 2 boxes of 220 which I am guarding with my life.

On the way back through the airport, I had a conversation with security about putting my film through the machine; yes I know it is only supposed to be AM radio waves (that's what I was told) but I don't like doing it. I asked for the film to be hand scanned and was told that it was only for film greater than 1600 ISO; since I know I will probably be pushing a couple of rolls, I said it was and they swabbed it and didn't put through the machine. However, I asked if I had an X-ray bag for my film if they would let it go through in that. Absolutely not! was the firm reply and that action would automatically tag me for higher scrutiny. What if I put the film in an X-ray bag and put it in checked luggage? While unable to discuss security policy, I was told I could expect a similar response.

Is there even a point of having an X-ray bag anymore? I know plenty of people swear by their bags but does security still let you use them? I also know a lot of people don't worry about the screening but I don't trust the security just because by their mandate, they cannot give full disclosure as to how powerful the machine is.

Thoughts?

2F/2F · Apr 7, 2010

All film will be fine through modern-day carry-on machines even when scanned over and over and over and...

I have traveled with Delta 3200, Fuji Press 800 and 1600, and plenty of 400 films, pushed them god knows how far. (A lot of my shooting is done in very low light.) On a three month trip, after at least 20 x-ray scans (all European), they were all FINE!

IMHO, hand checks are far more scary than scanning by carry-on machines, especially in this 99% digital era in which no one knows anything about film.

Do not ever put your film in checked baggage! That WILL screw it up.

johnnywalker · Apr 7, 2010

I never could see how they would be allowed in the first place. It just defeats the purpose of the x-ray.

AgX · Apr 8, 2010

Fuji advises not to use a lead-bag.

Kevin Kehler · Apr 8, 2010

johnnywalker said:
I never could see how they would be allowed in the first place. It just defeats the purpose of the x-ray.

That is my thought as well. You could theoretically stick anything in them or in the lining of them and not have it scanned. 2F/2F, if you have never had a problem, maybe I shouldn't worry so much but I remember hearing so many horror stories...maybe they are just urban legends in the past decade, carried over from previous decades.

monodave · Apr 8, 2010

I have seen x-ray fogging on 120 roll film after just 4 passes on a trip from London Heathrow to USA less than 2 years ago. The only sure way to avoid this is not to put film through x-ray machines by asking for hand searches. In my case it manifested itself as the arrows on the printed wrapper being exposed onto the shadows on the film. I guess if it happens in the areas of higher exposure it is masked by the exposure so you don't see it. Don't believe people who say x-ray fogging doesn't happen. The only sure way to avoid it is to have hand searches, which aren't always possible. Dave

RH Designs · Apr 8, 2010

I used an x-ray bag on a recent trip to Italy which resulted in a subsequent hand search of the bag. The operator looked at the x-ray bag and said "well, this worked, we couldn't see what it was". The film (35mm Kodak Gold 200) was fine.

2F/2F · Apr 8, 2010

monodave said:
I have seen x-ray fogging on 120 roll film after just 4 passes on a trip from London Heathrow to USA less than 2 years ago. The only sure way to avoid this is not to put film through x-ray machines by asking for hand searches. In my case it manifested itself as the arrows on the printed wrapper being exposed onto the shadows on the film. I guess if it happens in the areas of higher exposure it is masked by the exposure so you don't see it. Don't believe people who say x-ray fogging doesn't happen. The only sure way to avoid it is to have hand searches, which aren't always possible. Dave

Could you be more specific?

What kind of film?

What kind for x-ray machine (checked baggage or carry on)?

Do you have examples for us?

How come all of my film was fine?

jordanstarr · Apr 8, 2010

I've had Tri-x400 scanned and it was screwed up in 120 and 4x5 in an x-ray bag that was for the under carriage. The weird part is that some of it was fine and some of it wasn't. I only do hand checks now and tell them I push the film to 1600 all the time. From now on I'm either buying film at my destination or mailing it out to my destination ahead of time.

JBrunner · Apr 8, 2010

There are many factors with this. The actual set up and maintenance of the machine and some machines allow the operator to "turn up the gain" if they are having trouble seeing, big film can be affected more than small film, etc, etc. Every xray machine fogs your film, the question is does it rise above b+f. From experience I know it is cumulative, and it is somewhat capricious and arbitrary. 10 times fine, 1 time fogged. No hi-speed, so what was the variable? IDK.

Tim Gray · Apr 8, 2010

RH Designs said:
I used an x-ray bag on a recent trip to Italy which resulted in a subsequent hand search of the bag. The operator looked at the x-ray bag and said "well, this worked, we couldn't see what it was". The film (35mm Kodak Gold 200) was fine.

They always say the same thing about my Leica. It just shows up as solid black. I know put it in a tray outside of my bag (still in the small camera bag), and make sure it sits in such a way that it has a camera profile on the screen.

canuhead · Apr 8, 2010

never, never, never put film in checked baggage. never. it will be fried to some extent

asp.artist · Apr 8, 2010

Its one thing to ask security to hand check your film, what about customs? I was surprised in Mexico City last month when they sent my carry on bags through Xray. All I could do was smile. And I gave up on hand checking right then.

PKM-25 · Apr 9, 2010

After having a roll of last batch Kodachrome 25 lose a bit of Dmax when X-rayed last year, I have them hand check at least once. That way, if for some reason I can not get a second hand check on the return flight, I have done my best to mitigate any potential exposure.

I have lead X-Ray bags, but only use them to protect HIE and other Infrared films in my camper's fridge while on the road....

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 9, 2010

I haven't flown with a lead bag for at least a year, but before that, there was some variability depending on the airport. In a few Hawai'ian airports, they wanted me to take the film out and put it through the X-ray separately. In New York and Las Vegas they recognized that the lead bag was with camera equipment, and maybe they'd do an explosive residue swab, or they'd just let it go through, since it was obvious that I was carrying large format camera gear.

monodave · Apr 9, 2010

2F/2F said:
Could you be more specific?

What kind of film?

What kind for x-ray machine (checked baggage or carry on)?

Do you have examples for us?

How come all of my film was fine?

Film was Ilford FP4 Plus 120.
It was in my carry on small rucsac.
Your film was fine because you were lucky! All x-ray machines are capable of fogging any film if they are not set up properly or are poorly maintained.
I flew from Manchester to Heathrow, then on to Denver and back again. That's just 4 passes to see arrows from the 120 wrapper exposed into the shadows on my films.
Dave

Tim Gray · Apr 9, 2010

I've yet to have noticeable problems from hand luggage scanners. I fly about once a month and internationally once or twice a year. ISO 25 up to 3200.

monodave, does your camera have a red window for the frame counter? I can't imagine xrays differentiating between the ink on the wrapper and the wrapper itself, enough to expose it onto your film...

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 9, 2010

Print-through from the 120 film backing can have a number of causes, like exposure to heat or film being past date. I would suspect those more than X-ray exposure, which tends to produce a straight line or sometimes a sine-wave pattern (due to the way the film is rolled), depending on the orientation of the film when it passes through the scanner.

marylandphoto · Apr 9, 2010

I don't fly, but a friend of mine was coming back from the west coast, and shipped his film to himself ahead of time so it would not have to go through an X-ray scanner. I guess this is the same as ordering film from the internet from a photo store. This may not be an option when in a remote area of the world, but it's an idea.

monodave · Apr 9, 2010

Tim Gray said:
I've yet to have noticeable problems from hand luggage scanners. I fly about once a month and internationally once or twice a year. ISO 25 up to 3200.

monodave, does your camera have a red window for the frame counter? I can't imagine xrays differentiating between the ink on the wrapper and the wrapper itself, enough to expose it onto your film...

My cameras are Mamiya 7, so no red window!
Having run the Ilford worldwide complaints system for 15 years until 2002 I know that x-ray damage to film of all speeds is quite common - as it still is, having spoken to them about it in the last few weeks. Whatever is printed on the wrapper (arrows and numbers) is superimposed onto the negatives. There is little distortion. It is seen in areas of low density on negatives. Zips are another common effect seen exposed onto film. You may not want to believe it but it happens. Dave

Tim Gray · Apr 9, 2010

monodave said:
Whatever is printed on the wrapper (arrows and numbers) is superimposed onto the negatives.

Huh, I'll take your word for it. I wouldn't have thought the printing would have attenuated xrays enough to make for a different exposure on the negative. Just since, well you know, it's hard to attenuate xrays - you need things like lead and bones and such

2F/2F · Apr 9, 2010

David A. Goldfarb said:
Print-through from the 120 film backing can have a number of causes, like exposure to heat or film being past date. I would suspect those more than X-ray exposure, which tends to produce a straight line or sometimes a sine-wave pattern (due to the way the film is rolled), depending on the orientation of the film when it passes through the scanner.

Ditto!

When there is an ink or a paper that shields against radiation, let me know.

IloveTLRs · Apr 9, 2010

Kevin Kehler said:
Is there even a point of having an X-ray bag anymore? I know plenty of people swear by their bags but does security still let you use them?

I used them up to 2008 (haven't travelled since then.) In the US and Japan - in both countries they asked to open the x-ray bags and they hand-inspected the films (135 & 120.) Afterwards they put the films back into the bag and then the bag through the scanners.

I shot mostly ISO 100 & 400, but there were no ill-effects.

clayne · Apr 9, 2010

How about 10-15 passes through carry-on bags through multiple airports in multiple countries in multiple years without an issue? Too many horror stories and not enough damn evidence out there.

wotalegend · Apr 9, 2010

In the last several years I have travelled extensively throughout the Asia-Pacific area, both domestically within Australia, to South East Asia, China, Mongolia, Fiji, New Zealand. Whenever I have been carrying film it has always been in an "x-ray safety bag" in carry-on luggage. I have never been asked to open the bag, and my film has never been damaged. In China they x-ray luggage on long distance trains. From my experience watching the security person manning the machine, they usually slow down or even reverse it when my camera bag goes through and I have been asked two or three times to show my camera equipment, but never the film bag. The only security incident I have had was when I was carrying a wrapped gift for my niece in Western Australia. The gift was a crystal ornament (high lead content) and had come up as a black blob on the machine.

As for the the oft-quoted "solution" of mailing ahead or buying locally, it is impractical at best to mail to yourself when you are travelling to a new location every day in multiple countries. International mail goes through a similar x-ray machine anyway. And you would have to pack it and post it home again (another x-ray machine). And what chance of buying Ektar 100 or Neopan 400 in, say, Invercargill (lat. 46.25 S, long. 168.21 E, pop. 52,000 )? Both of those films are even hard enough to find in Melbourne (pop. 4 million), not to mention price.

X-Ray Bags not allowed

Kevin Kehler

2F/2F

johnnywalker

AgX

Kevin Kehler

monodave

RH Designs

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2F/2F

jordanstarr

JBrunner

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Tim Gray

canuhead

asp.artist

PKM-25

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

monodave

Tim Gray

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

marylandphoto

monodave

Tim Gray

2F/2F

IloveTLRs

clayne

wotalegend

X-Ray Bags not allowed

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