WW2 era photography and light meters?

puderse · Mar 12, 2014

GI Photographer

As a fledgling Army still photo. I shot a 4X5 speed using the front shutter with flash. Never used a light meter but almost always flash and always using the solenoid. Usually cut film for grip-and-grins etc. and tri-X film packs in press situations. My lab chief, who survived POW, would not think of anything else, Rollei for color print, and 35mm was only for slides.

Sid

mgb74 · Mar 12, 2014

puderse said:
As a fledgling Army still photo. I shot a 4X5 speed using the front shutter with flash. Never used a light meter but almost always flash and always using the solenoid. Usually cut film for grip-and-grins etc. and tri-X film packs in press situations. My lab chief, who survived POW, would not think of anything else, Rollei for color print, and 35mm was only for slides.

Sid

Wasn't the old press saying "f8 and be there" (with flash).

Mr_Flibble · Mar 13, 2014

Yes, "f/8 and be there" was a sort of large-format point&shoot tactic used by the Press I believe.
Camera at f/8 and a certain shutter speed, at a given distance from the subject and let the flash take care of the rest.

puderse · Mar 13, 2014

Mr_Flibble said:
Yes, "f/8 and be there"

Pretty close; except with tri-X its more like 11 or 16! plenty of light and plenty of DoF. Don't ever come back with a shot out of focus! You can print through a bullet proof neg but you can't fix bad focus.

Hatchetman · Mar 13, 2014

AgX said:
Official exposure meter of US Forces in WWII:

-) Weston Photronic
-) Weston 819
-) Weston 650
-) Weston 715
-) General Electric DV48
-) DeJur Critic

When this thread came out, I was curious so picked up the GE and DeJur meters for less than $5 each on eBay. They work, they just don't work as one would hope.

I dunno if they ever worked what we would consider "well." Sunny-16 is more accurate than they are now. They both would be handy in combat situations though. You could kill someone with a blow to the head with one of these things.

Kawaiithulhu · Mar 13, 2014

The Weston 715 I found for this project is as accurate at incident as a luna pro I have. It just can't read as broad a range of light as the gossen, nor as controlled a cone is all. Maybe I got lucky.

You're right, though, the heavy casings on these Westons is a force of nature.

benjiboy · Mar 13, 2014

Very few photographers in WW11 used light meters they weren't common in the 40's they mostly used "sunny 16" and their experience. I know British military photographers were not issued with them, and they weren't in common usage generally with most pro photographers,because being able to judge light and distance is part what photographers did in those days.

kaantuncel · Mar 23, 2014

"I am piecing together a full, WW2 era set of gear from camera to darkroom for my birthday. I like a creative challenge, and I like the craft and history in general.

With as few concessions as possible I want to take pictures of areas and things from the 1940s with appropriate gear and then develop them using yet more period gear and techniques. Locations will be easy on the west coast here, with auto and plane museums, the SS Lane Victory is here in San Pedro, even a tank museum out in the desert, historical markers and so on. Plus the air show if it comes around.

Fortunately for me, chemistry and technique haven't changed much so all I have to worry about is finding the right pieces and reconditioning what I can. This all started with a Combat Graphic and now I've got enameled trays, timer, chemistry sources, even a vintage Kodak printing frame for the enlarger.

Now my only sticking point is finding an enlarger that wasn't scrapped long ago. Saw a Federal 450 recently but the price was too high for a hobby budget and it needed repairs. Worse comes to worse I will make 4x5 contact prints, I've done that before and with the right subject the presentation can work very well I think.

Then later I'll do something similar with my grandfather's Leica M3 and late 50's and 60's era locations and subjects (but not so purist on the gear, just the subject matter). This all should give me a year's worth of fun from a simple birthday present.

Now I'm off to try and find someone who can recondition shutters in a combat speed graphic that looks like it was swallowed whole by a turtle The one shop I knew of in Culver City isn't taking any new large format cameras and is backlogged for several months."

Hey, I think this is a great idea! How far have you gotten, and do you have any material up yet? I am really interested and I would love to see.

Gerald C Koch · Mar 23, 2014

benjiboy said:
Very few photographers in WW11 used light meters they weren't common in the 40's they mostly used "sunny 16" and their experience. I know British military photographers were not issued with them, and they weren't in common usage generally with most pro photographers,because being able to judge light and distance is part what photographers did in those days.

ditto Light meters in the 40's were expensive and not very reliable. The only type available were selenium meters. They have a memory problem when exposed to bright light. Most people even professionals guesstimated the correct exposure.

I am piecing together a full, WW2 era set of gear from camera to darkroom for my birthday. I like a creative challenge, and I like the craft and history in general.

So to be historically accurate you should omit them from your kit.

Mr_Flibble · Mar 24, 2014

The training USMC cameramen at cine school at Quantico definitely used light meters though.
Thayer Soule mentions this in "Shooting the Pacific War". By his order they cleaned out the quartermaster and PX store, when he took over the school in 1943.

Kawaiithulhu · Mar 25, 2014

kaantuncel said:
Hey, I think this is a great idea! How far have you gotten, and do you have any material up yet? I am really interested and I would love to see.

I've got an olive drab Graphic "45" (aka combat graphic) with a working FP shutter, good lens but the Supermatic shutter it's set in needs a ton of work and a CLA may not rescue it. I've run some sample shots through it, and hand held it's sharp even so.

I've never found a 4x5 enlarger from the period so I'm limited to contact prints, but I can live with that. I did find a Federal 296 in surprisingly good shape, but it's only 6x9 at the largest so I use it for my century graphic and 120 back

The rest of the darkroom is set with trays, timer (a wheezy Time-o-Lite), contact printer (Albert) and safelight (also Albert, in Chicago).

I'm trying to decide on a developer and film combo (any suggestions?), for now I'm using my usual HP5 and alternately Xtol or Pyrocat-HD to get the camera tested.

Now I'm waiting for the summer season to kick off at San Pedro, where the USS Iowa is berthed for my first target. Then later probably the USS Lane Victory, which is nearby.

Mr_Flibble · Mar 25, 2014

You do know the Combat Graphic was only used by the USMC photographers and the US Navy, right?

I picked one up last year in great condition, except that it was painted black after the war, and it's missing the data-tag...like they all do

Kawaiithulhu · Mar 25, 2014

Mr_Flibble said:
You do know the Combat Graphic was only used by the USMC photographers and the US Navy, right?

I picked one up last year in great condition, except that it was painted black after the war, and it's missing the data-tag...like they all do

Yes, Pacific Theater and only very late in the war, 1944 and later which is why so few were made and most converted for civilian resale. My first target, the Iowa, which is berthed nearby was in the Pacific which is kind of what got me started on this.

I wish mine were in better shape, but serendipity and all that.

I've only seen one with the original tags, and it was a fully restored kit with flash and way out of my price range.

Both theaters were using Anniversary graphics, which would have been easier to work with in hindsight

AgX · Mar 25, 2014

What is refered to by "data-tag"?
Camera specification or army designation, inventory number and such?

BrianShaw · Mar 25, 2014

Kawaiithulhu said:
... I've never found a 4x5 enlarger from the period so I'm limited to contact prints, but I can live with that. ...

Is the Omega D-2 (or II, not sure which it is without looking at it again) of that era? If so, let me know if you have any interest in one.

p.s. I think I recently read that the Lane Victory is on vacation in England. Not sure if that info was accurate or not.

mgb74 · Mar 25, 2014

BrianShaw said:
Is the Omega D-2 (or II, not sure which it is without looking at it again) of that era? If so, let me know if you have any interest in one.

p.s. I think I recently read that the Lane Victory is on vacation in England. Not sure if that info was accurate or not.

IIRC, the D-II preceeded the D-2. But I don't know dates.

BrianShaw · Mar 25, 2014

I did a little research. D-2 was 1955. Not sure about D-II date, though. Couldn't find that quickly.

Kawaiithulhu · Mar 25, 2014

Data tag would refer to the original army tag, that's right. Most of the "45"s were re-branded with a different plate and painted black for sales into the civilian market so finding an army tag is pretty neat.

From one info page: "Camera, Combat (Combat Graphic). Special US Navy and Marine Corps 4" x 5" wooden body camera designed for the Pacific war. Marine Corps version in OD green, Navy versions in OD green or battleship grey. All have black Supermatic shutter/ Kodak Anastigmat Special f4.7 127mm focusing lens with 'EExxxx' serial number. Official military metal plate attached to shutter winding side of camera body. After WW2 some were painted black and sold on the civilian market as 'Graphic 45' cameras. Only about 1500 made."

I don't think that they're a collector's item at all, just an oddity from the later years of the war. My wood shell is in good shape, but the in-lens shutter is mostly non functional and only shoots at one speed. Plus someone back in the mists of time retrofit a graflok back to it, replacing the original spring back. I'm torn between un-fitting the new back to "restore" it to original or leaving it there because it too is now a part of history.

Mr_Flibble · Mar 26, 2014

Mine came with a Graflex back, not a spring back. I did install a Graflok back on it so I could at least use my regular 4x5 film holders and a roll film adapter. it's only a couple of screws to replace the original back should I ever want to. I did have to adjust the focus to match the slight shift in film plane distance between the backs.

My Combat Graphic was also missing the wooden bevel on the front right side that protects the focus wheel and the shutter tensioning lever. I have made a replacement, but I still need to paint it.

I've been told I can remove the black paint with alcohol but I haven't had much luck with that. I have looked into having a new data plate made for it too.

I have shot a few images with the Combat Graphic, but the 127mm f/4.7 Anastigmat Special doesn't quite cut it compared to my Ektar-equiped Anni Speed Graphic.
Biggest problem, of course, I re-enact a European Theater Signal Photo Company Photographer...so I'd be commiting a historic faux pas if I ever use this camera

Taken at Fort IJmuiden, Rollei Superpan 200
Dead Link Removed

same location, Kodak Tri-X
Dead Link Removed

Gerald C Koch · Mar 26, 2014

Mr_Flibble said:
You do know the Combat Graphic was only used by the USMC photographers and the US Navy, right?

I picked one up last year in great condition, except that it was painted black after the war, and it's missing the data-tag...like they all do

The correct exposure cine film is more demanding than for still film since there is only one contrast grade of positive stock. So I am not surprised that light meters were used. However their use for still photography was not common.

When not in use selenium cell meters should not be exposed to light. Keep the meter in its case or box. Exposure to light greatly shortens their life. You can find Weston meters that still work but there are many more that do not. It all depends on how they were cared for.

WW2 era photography and light meters?

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