WTH is going on? Cost increases in used MF gear??

John Galt · Dec 3, 2018

I had an unfortunate accident in Newfoundland this Sept. I was photographing Puffins on an island off the coast when the wind blew my tripod mounted Hasselblad 500C over onto the rocks. It landed on the winding lever and tweaked the body so bad that it is basically junk. The lens and magazine were fine though . . . I paid $500 for that kit (80mm and 150mm lenses with two A12 magazines and 35 rolls of various frozen 20 yr old Kodak films) in 2016.

Back in July 2017 I purchased a 500CM body with waist level finder from KEH in excellent + condition for $349. It was absolutely flawless, shows no signs of ever being used, and has performed flawlessly. This last week I have been looking for another 500CM body for a backup at KEH and the price has AT LEAST doubled . . . As of today there are no 500C or 500CM bodies on KEH, there is a very nice 501CM body with Accumat screen for $999 . . . trying NOT to pull the trigger on that.

Why? What is going on?

MattKing · Dec 3, 2018

KEH seems to be moving away from all but the most pristine examples of film equipment.
I do think that there is a reduction of availability of good equipment on the used market.

mark · Dec 3, 2018

I’ve been seeing the same. Bronica SQs and RZs are higher than a couple years ago. I was wondering if I was seeing things right.

mshchem · Dec 3, 2018

Nice Hasselblad stuff is been getting harder to find at a bargain. We enjoyed a decade of pros just dumping mf stuff. Now it seems that young folks are fascinated with film. Also it's getting used up and broken down. 10 to 12 years back I bought a mint 501c 80 and 150, 2 backs wlf and 45 degree prism for 1100 bucks. There are still deals out there just takes a while to find them.

PS Puffins are bad luck, they despise Swedish cameras

Arklatexian · Dec 3, 2018

John Galt said:
I had an unfortunate accident in Newfoundland this Sept. I was photographing Puffins on an island off the coast when the wind blew my tripod mounted Hasselblad 500C over onto the rocks. It landed on the winding lever and tweaked the body so bad that it is basically junk. The lens and magazine were fine though . . . I paid $500 for that kit (80mm and 150mm lenses with two A12 magazines and 35 rolls of various frozen 20 yr old Kodak films) in 2016.

Back in July 2017 I purchased a 500CM body with waist level finder from KEH in excellent + condition for $349. It was absolutely flawless, shows no signs of ever being used, and has performed flawlessly. This last week I have been looking for another 500CM body for a backup at KEH and the price has AT LEAST doubled . . . As of today there are no 500C or 500CM bodies on KEH, there is a very nice 501CM body with Accumat screen for $999 . . . trying NOT to pull the trigger on that.

Why? What is going on?

Maybe it is because the market for good clean used Hasselblads is a "sellers" market, no longer a "buyers market".I noticed this starting two years ago. One of the results of a return of film. As a Hasselblad owner nearing the end of the line, I hope it continues.........Regards!

ic-racer · Dec 3, 2018

In the last few years what catches my attention is gear that is still priced reasonably. The norm, it seems, is items that I use that might require replacement, have gone up in asking and selling prices.

Mike Bates · Dec 3, 2018

I think it's a simple case of supply and demand economics. The supply of classic film cameras is declining every day. They're no longer being made (with tiny exceptions, of course) and people like me that have more film cameras than I can reasonably shoot aren't selling them. Demand, on the other hand, seems to be steady or on the uptick.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 3, 2018

mshchem said:
Nice Hasselblad stuff is been getting harder to find at a bargain. We enjoyed a decade of pros just dumping mf stuff. Now it seems that young folks are fascinated with film. Also it's getting used up and broken down. 10 to 12 years back I bought a mint 501c 80 and 150, 2 backs wlf and 45 degree prism for 1100 bucks. There are still deals out there just takes a while to find them.

PS Puffins are bad luck, they despise Swedish cameras

I'm glad I bought when I bought and I'm keeping it.Mabe one day ,I can afford a Hasselblad digital back.

wjlapier · Dec 3, 2018

I see complete RB67's for less than $400 shipped. Lens and all. Those lenses are really nice. I'm looking at adding another RB67 body for 70mm only and so far those bodies are affordable, to me anyway.

wyofilm · Dec 3, 2018

About a year ago I looked at buying a backup Mamiya 7ii, then I saw how the prices have climbed. Bodies only are somewhat rare, but the body with the common 80mm lens are hovering between $3500-4000! Maybe 2.5x from just 2-3 years ago.

mshchem · Dec 4, 2018

I sold quiet a bit of excess Bronica SQ-Ai stuff. It just doesn't bring the kind of money that Hasselblad does. For good reason. Bronica is a great workhorse, tremendous glass,......

Hasselblad is a just an amazing piece, of 20th century design perfection. Hold any well preserved, and maintained, (especially chrome) Hassy in your hand, and you get it.
Same thing hits you when you hold a Leica, it just is a lovely functional piece of art.

I have a lot of RZII stuff, great camera . But it's a whole different animal. Still I love these cameras as well.

I will die before all this stuff goes to pot. I'm sure thankful that I have what I have, and the time to enjoy it.

BMbikerider · Dec 4, 2018

It is the same right accross the market, at least here in UK. 4 years ago you could have bought a really nice Nikon F6 for around £650 (As I did) now for a similar camera in similar condition, you would not get anything for much less than £900. Recently, I bought a F100 as a second body for my F6 and because the body was slightly sticky I paid only £125. (they clean up easily!) From used camera lists about 2 years ago you could have bought a mint example for the same money. Don't even ask about a good F2A!

Is it because there is an increase in interest with film photography or a lack of good quality equipment as the old favourites get older and wear out and there is little to replace them. Or a combination of both?

Even plain Pentax SV models from the 60's are fetching somewhere around £70, whereas a couple of years ago they were half that.

Marco Gilardetti · Dec 4, 2018

BMbikerider said:
Is it because there is an increase in interest with film photography or a lack of good quality equipment as the old favourites get older and wear out and there is little to replace them. Or a combination of both?

I believe it's a combination of both. On one hand there are young chaps which are a bit tired of all that "virtual" poo they were supposed to like, and dig good old solid things like LP records or film cameras. Unfortunately they do it in the way in which the social networks have accustomed them to do: very superficially and with a 5 minutes maximum commitment, but perhaps they will learn on the (very) long run. In any case, I appreciate them buying film, as film *will* disappear if nobody is buying it; and without film, film cameras are good only as door stoppers.

On the other hand, although an unbelievable number of mindless subscribers deny it here (especially those with cameras overfilled with useless electronics, who should be the more concerned but apparently it's exactly the other way around), period cameras are failing one after the other and most of them are no longer repairable, whatever you do and whichever sum you're willing to spend. There are also many idiots who don't care about treating their cameras as the delicate objects that they are (and they even boasted of it on these pages!). So obviously the supply of good cameras in reasonable aesthetic conditions is getting thinner and thinner by the day.

Personally I'm having a very hard time (and I mean very hard) to get my Nikon F3 fixed. I say: the Nikon F3 - definitely not an obscure camera of a long forgotten make. Despite what mr.knowitall and mr.ipretend write here, this camera is no longer fixable, full stop. Official Nikon repair centers officially refuse to even take a look at F3s. To make a long story short, I had to buy a beaten up but working F3 body, and will cannibalize its electronics in order to get my unit fixed. Which means that I have overpaid an F3 that probably would have remained unsold due to its poor conditions, and that I am decreasing the overall supply of F3s cameras by 50%. Hopingly not everybody else is compelled to do the same.

As a side note, although photographically speaking I have absolutely everything that I will ever need, I had in mind to buy few extra legendary cameras just for the sake of owning them and using them from time to time. I thought I would buy one any - say - two or three years, in order to savor the novelty. But as I've seen the trend in prices and the vertical drop of cameras in reasonable functional/aesthetic conditions, I decided to hoard them all by 2018 while I can, and eventually have one of them CLA'd every 2-3 years.

Theo Sulphate · Dec 4, 2018

John Galt said:
. . . I paid $500 for that kit (80mm and 150mm lenses with two A12 magazines and 35 rolls of various frozen 20 yr old Kodak films) in 2016.
...

That seems like a bargain price, even back then when you bought it.

Over the years I'd look through Shutterbug magazine and check prices from numerous sellers for the basic 500C/M with 80mm CF, A12 back and WLF - it seemed to hover between US$900 and US$1000 for a very long time. I know that's a limited and select group of sellers, but observing those same sellers over time would still reflect any trends. Maybe buying individually from KEH got you a better deal, but it still seems to me that $500 for what you got was a great deal.

I think prices are up - but maybe 10%.

As for RB67 systems, I think they're way underpriced for what they're capable of.

John Galt · Dec 4, 2018

Theo Sulphate said:
That seems like a bargain price, even back then when you bought it.

Over the years I'd look through Shutterbug magazine and check prices from numerous sellers for the basic 500C/M with 80mm CF, A12 back and WLF - it seemed to hover between US$900 and US$1000 for a very long time. I know that's a limited and select group of sellers, but observing those same sellers over time would still reflect any trends. Maybe buying individually from KEH got you a better deal, but it still seems to me that $500 for what you got was a great deal.

it was a great deal, I was close to pulling the trigger on a much used Bronica kit for $200 when a friend offered me her Hasslblad 500C kit. She was the second owner and put maybe 20 rolls though it. We both knew the first owner, same story. I had 100+ rolls through that camera in 18 months before my carelessness caused it's demise. Never again will I turn my back, even for an instant, on a camera on a tripod in windy conditions.Especially when photographing Puffins. :/

film_man · Dec 4, 2018

Like said, no more pros selling this stuff, an increase in number of people wanting to try them out and a dwindling supply as things break/die. Hasselblads are particularly bad as they are the fancy stuff everyone wants to try.

guangong · Dec 4, 2018

The eventual failure of electronics is why I try to avoid them. Usually the electronic components were not manufactured by the camera makers. Fully mechanical cameras are better candidates for repair. In a similar way, contemporary automobiles are not likely to be collectibles because of preponderance of electronics and the fact that each manufacturer has different computer programs for each model.

blockend · Dec 4, 2018

There has been talk of film camera prices rising for years, and it's difficult to deny recent hikes. Gear is regularly discussed on YouTube channels and podcasts, which educates enthusiasts but also hypes particular cameras and lenses. If you're flexible about camera choices it isn't a big deal, but if you want a popular item you'll need much deeper pockets than 2016 for the same item.

macfred · Dec 4, 2018

HaBla and Rolleiflex prices are rising - that's for sure.
But there are still sytems that are surprisingly affordable (Bronica ETRs(i) series, Mamiya RB, some vintage folders).

John51 · Dec 4, 2018

A camera I regret not buying a few years ago is the Agfa Super Isolette. Even when sold as untested no returns, the few I've seen on auction went for £400. Buy it now listings were almost double that.

jim10219 · Dec 4, 2018

First the prices of 35mm gear shot up. Now it's medium format. Now's the time to switch to large format before they shoot up as well.

piffey · Dec 4, 2018

Yep, going to continue riding it before letting go my minty Hasselblad kit and upping my large format game. Going to just keep a Rolleiflex around since I assume there will always be someone fixing those just like someone will always be fixing Leicas. You could say the same for Hasselblads, but I feel like some day all the A12 backs will have fallen apart and we'll need some kickstarter campaign to build new ones that will take 5 generations to figure out.

RichardJack · Dec 4, 2018

Where are you looking? Prices are dropping on Ebay. This time of the year it's a buyers market.

Huss · Dec 4, 2018

Only the trendy gear is rising in price. Excellent stuff like Mamiya 645 proTL systems are
very cheap. I’ll be selling my built out system soon (multiple backs, inserts, finders, motor drives, lenses etc) and shipping may cost more than the value of it!

TheFlyingCamera · Dec 4, 2018

jim10219 said:
First the prices of 35mm gear shot up. Now it's medium format. Now's the time to switch to large format before they shoot up as well.

Too late -that's already happened too... 4x5 cameras that were $300 a couple years ago are now selling for $800.

WTH is going on? Cost increases in used MF gear??

John Galt

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