WTF? Whats turning my TF4 orange?

JBrunner · Jan 30, 2007

Okay, so I just got my new to me Unicolor drums for doing 8x10, so I can stop being a bat. I also just got some WD2D+ to try from PF and thought I'd give'em a try together, and yes I've heard it doesn't like tubes, and I have heard from others that it's fine. (In my case here's what happened- J&C 100, WD2D+, 1:1:50 250ml, 8 min on reversing motor, developer came out very oxidized as expected, 250ml water stop (3 water changes the second time as my initial thought was that developer was somehow carrying through to the fix), then 250ml TF4 fix for 2 min. When I poured the fixer out it looked like HC110. It still smells the same, and checks good, except it is orange. WTF? Is this normal with WD2D? The negs are very nice- no streaks or other rollo problems, and appear to have good stain and densities appropriate to a pyro neg, assuming they are properly fixed.
I have accomplished this twice in a row now, so its not a fluke. Does this developer need a different fixer? Does it mean nothing?

Any ideas?

rrankin · Jan 30, 2007

I use pyrocat-hd and my TF4 usually comes out pinkish. I suspect it is something in the local water as I use tap water, but it doesn't seem to affect anything as far as I can tell.

Cheers,
Richard

JBrunner · Jan 30, 2007

Well, I did one more, ran allot of water through during the stop, and made absolutely sure no developer was carrying through, and the fix still turned orange, so it is a reaction to fixing the film. Hmmm.... I'm gonna shoot a neg tomorrow and tray develop it, and see if this happens.

The first neg of the batch is dry, so here is a quick scan... looks good, to me anyway...

fhovie · Jan 30, 2007

The orange is the stain from the Gallol that is in the emulsion when it is fixed. It is normal and is not a problem.

JBrunner · Jan 30, 2007

Thanks for the responses guys. Is this exclusive to WD2D? Roll processing with any Pyrogallol? It doesn't happen when I tray process with PMK.

jd callow · Jan 30, 2007

JBrunner said:
Well, I did one more, ran allot of water through during the stop, and made absolutely sure no developer was carrying through, and the fix still turned orange, so it is a reaction to fixing the film. Hmmm.... I'm gonna shoot a neg tomorrow and tray develop it, and see if this happens.

The first neg of the batch is dry, so here is a quick scan... looks good, to me anyway...

Good? it looks sweet as hell!

PHOTOTONE · Jan 30, 2007

I do Wd2d myself. I use a water rinse several times for a stop, then I use Kodak Rapid Fix without the hardener. My fixer gets yelloish also. Doesn't seem to effect the performance of the fixer at all, or its life.

Tom Hoskinson · Jan 31, 2007

JBrunner said:
Thanks for the responses guys. Is this exclusive to WD2D? Roll processing with any Pyrogallol? It doesn't happen when I tray process with PMK.

It's not exclusive to to Pyrogallol, some folks have seen orange TF-4 following print development in amidol.

I had a small amount of TF4 fixer initially and that was a bust as the print and solution immediately went orange/yellow along with the print. I mixed up some Kodak fixer and all was fine from that point forward.

Dead Link Removed

MMfoto · Feb 1, 2007

JBrunner said:
The first neg of the batch is dry, so here is a quick scan... looks good, to me anyway...

That is a gorgeous image.

MMfoto · Feb 1, 2007

JBrunner said:
...developer came out very oxidized as expected...

What does WD2D+ look like when it's oxidized?

PHOTOTONE · Feb 1, 2007

MMfoto said:
What does WD2D+ look like when it's oxidized?

When mixed up it is a pale orange/yellow, when oxidized it is a dark dirty orange.

Photo Engineer · Feb 1, 2007

I think it could be one of two things.

Either too much carryover of developer into the fix or retention of some of the dyes in the film which then wash out in the fix.

Some of the dyes used in films, change color when alkaline. They might be blue or purple in the film, but orange in the alkaline fix.

These are both just guesses.

PE

climbabout · Feb 1, 2007

location

Just out of curiousity - is that image from the Alabama hills near Lone Pine?
Tim

JBrunner · Dec 11, 2007

climbabout said:
Just out of curiousity - is that image from the Alabama hills near Lone Pine?
Tim

Sorry Tim,

I was doing a little research back here and realized I never saw your question. It is in Arches in Utah, right over by the Parade of Elephants.

Kirk Keyes · Dec 11, 2007

I get a tinge in the fix when using Ilford Rapid Fix/Hypam. It seems to disappear on sitting as the fix loses the color in a couple days. I've always figured it was a dye from the film that was coming out in the fix, and that the hypo or sulfite in the fix that was breaking down the dye.

JBrunner · Dec 12, 2007

Kirk Keyes said:
I get a tinge in the fix when using Ilford Rapid Fix/Hypam. It seems to disappear on sitting as the fix loses the color in a couple days. I've always figured it was a dye from the film that was coming out in the fix, and that the hypo or sulfite in the fix that was breaking down the dye.

Since I OPed this thread about a year ago I have been using the same things. The fixer still turns orange, but I can find no lack of performance or ill effects. I am, however, thinking of going back to PMK but increasing Sol A for rolling development, or trying Rollo-Pyro. IDK, but I'm out of developer, so a decision must be made.

noseoil · Dec 12, 2007

"Use the pyrocat, Luke..."

I would certainly give formulary's pyrocat-hd in glycol a try, if you're thinking about changing something. It will open up a whole new world for you with minimal agitation or semi-stand development. I think it is worth using with the roller, but slow development is where it really shines. There's plenty of information available now to get a starting number or two and see how you like it. tim

juan · Dec 12, 2007

Are you still using J&C 100 - or are you using another film with the same orange color? I always saw a lot of dye when using J&C 100 - in the presoak, the developer, the stop and the fix, although I don't use WD2D nor TF-4, so I didn't see orange. As PE said, could be the dye.
juan

Murray@uptowngallery · Dec 12, 2007

Yeah, with results like that, I wouldn't care what color my chems turned! Wow

JBrunner · Dec 12, 2007

juan said:
Are you still using J&C 100 - or are you using another film with the same orange color? I always saw a lot of dye when using J&C 100 - in the presoak, the developer, the stop and the fix, although I don't use WD2D nor TF-4, so I didn't see orange. As PE said, could be the dye.
juan

l
Orange, to greater or lesser degrees. Orange with FP4, HP5, & J&C100. Pre-soaked or not.

Photo Engineer · Dec 12, 2007

As I said earlier, some developing agents can color the fixer if enough is carried over. Usually, the color is orange or yellow.

PE

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