WTD CHEAP Working 35mm SLRs for School Use

summicron1 · Sep 12, 2016

WTD means Want YOU to Donate...

OK, Le Deal: I recently visited the photo teaching department at Weber State University, here in Ogden, Utah. This university's photo department still teaches film photography -- it has two HUGE gang darkrooms, with 20 enlargers or so each, and they tell me they get a lot of students.

They also teach a special class in 4 X 5 photography every year, and they teach some color, although not much. I understand there's also a class or two in that D-word thing floating around, but we care not about that.

A friend and I recently took some stuff up to donate -- an old 4 X 5 camera, some film holders, some books -- and we got to talking to Levi Jackson, the lab manager/professor, about his program. He said they get a lot of students every year to take basic photography, and a nice handful for the advanced classes.

What they need are cameras for the students to learn with. Specifically: Good solid working 35mm SLRs with shutter speeds, f-stops and focus, and perhaps a working internal meter, but they're flexible on the meter. A lens would be very helpful. If it has automation too, OK, but these kids need to learn.

For example, I just picked this wonder up for $25 here on ApUG. I'll either donate it or use it to replace the AE-1 I have been using with this lens and donate the AE-1 instead:

SO: If you have such a camera, rather than give it to Goodwill, or make it a flower planter, or let the baby drool on it, why not send it to me? I will donate it to Weber State to help teach and inspire our future film users.

I WILL PAY THE POSTAGE, up to $20. I have $100 here burning a hole in my pocket, and as long as it lasts I'll mail you a check.

Amazing opportunity for some good Karma, folks.

Deal?

Charles Trentelman
3556 Fowler Ave.
Ogden, UT 84403
801-394-0239
summicron12000@yahoo.com

ps: No, they do NOT need enlargers.

CMoore · Sep 12, 2016

Let me start by saying i was trying to sell a Canon AE1-P that i paid to have straightened out, with a 35-70 zoom, for 100 bux with shipping included. It is in good cosmetic shape, the meter is calibrated, and the shutter speeds are accurate, the complete CLA.
The only responses i got were from a few people saying they could by one on Ebay for 35 dollars or less. Yes, but it will not be in the shape mine is in.
ANYWAY.....OK for 20 bux i will ship it to your address if that is best.
Just shoot me a PM.
Happy to do it........ Kind Of
p.s. will include a new battery as well
p.p.s. that 35-70 is kind of a lousy lens as far as light is concerned. I believe it is f/3.5-f/4.5. But i will send it if it helps. Just not sure if it is such a great lens for a "beginner"

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 12, 2016

If the school won't pay for really cheap equipment then why would they pay for teaching time? I'm not saying they won't. I'm just confused by their lack of logic.

Moopheus · Sep 12, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
If the school won't pay for really cheap equipment then why would they pay for teaching time? I'm not saying they won't. I'm just confused by their lack of logic.

Possibly, being a state school, they have complicated acquisition rules that preclude shopping for cheap stuff on ebay, but allow donations. And there's few options these days for buying new stuff for cheap. Just a guess.

I've got a surplus Pentax K1000--the choice of generations of students--but I am not sure how well it works. It was my sister's camera and I've never put film through it.

CMoore · Sep 12, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
If the school won't pay for really cheap equipment then why would they pay for teaching time? I'm not saying they won't. I'm just confused by their lack of logic.

Have often wondered this as well. My local college did the same...spent Hundreds Of Thousands of dollars remodeling the school (GREAT...it needed it) building new classrooms and a first class darkroom with 20 Beseler M45 with color heads, all in fabulous shape, a portrait studio with umbrellas, flashes, back drops, a digital darkroom with 15 computers, etc etc etc.....but they only have a handful of Canon AE-1 that have never been put straight.
I guess they just figure the student Would/Should supply their own camera.?
I know the digital photographers (students) have to supply a camera. I guess the school does not want to have to own and maintain film cameras. Can you imagine loaning yours out to unknown students for 3-4 months at a time.?

Moopheus · Sep 12, 2016

CMoore said:
I guess the school does not want to have to own and maintain film cameras. Can you imagine loaning your out to unknown students for 3-4 months at a time.?

And in addition, making sure you get them all back.

summicron1 · Sep 12, 2016

Old-N-Feeble said:
If the school won't pay for really cheap equipment then why would they pay for teaching time? I'm not saying they won't. I'm just confused by their lack of logic.

Capital expenditures are different than salaries -- totally different budgets. Equipment and supplies are funded to a certain extent, but not this sort of camera. Students are generally supposed to find their own, but the college keeps a supply on hand to help out because a lot of them will only use them for one semester, and the supply of good usable used 35mm slrs in Ogden, Utah, is a bit slim.

Most people give them to me, to be honest --I'm reasonably well-known in the community because of my 18 years as the local newspaper columnist. And of course I take them to the University.

MattKing · Sep 12, 2016

If you were closer, and there wasn't an international border between us, I would have an OM-G and a Rebel 2000 and maybe a couple of more on there way to you.

summicron1 · Sep 13, 2016

CMoore said:
Let me start by saying i was trying to sell a Canon AE1-P that i paid to have straightened out, with a 35-70 zoom, for 100 bux with shipping included. It is in good cosmetic shape, the meter is calibrated, and the shutter speeds are accurate, the complete CLA.
The only responses i got were from a few people saying they could by one on Ebay for 35 dollars or less. Yes, but it will not be in the shape mine is in.
ANYWAY.....OK for 20 bux i will ship it to your address if that is best.
Just shoot me a PM.
Happy to do it........ Kind Of
p.s. will include a new battery as well
p.p.s. that 35-70 is kind of a lousy lens as far as light is concerned. I believe it is f/3.5-f/4.5. But i will send it if it helps. Just not sure if it is such a great lens for a "beginner"

can I just say, for the record, how bad this tale makes me feel.

How about this: Five years ago I paid $300 to KEH for a Leica R4. You can now buy the R4 for $100 on the auction site, and the price on them has fallen so low that the margin is too slim for KEH to even carry them.

This is our life. On the other hand, we can buy some REALLY COOL CAMERAS for pretty cheap.

Thank you, sincerely.

charlie

summicron1 · Sep 13, 2016

MattKing said:
If you were closer, and there wasn't an international border between us, I would have an OM-G and a Rebel 2000 and maybe a couple of more on there way to you.

I completely understand. I gave an OM 2000 to a student up there last year, in fact. Great little camera.

Perhaps a local university up there, eh?

ct

tedr1 · Sep 13, 2016

I don't have a camera to donate but I learned on film cameras. It was hard work. It makes no sense to teach beginners using film cameras when digital provides the instant feedback which learning thrives on. For the student trying to come to terms with the important issues of camera location, lens focal length, image framing, exposure and focus, film is a form of torture.

MattKing · Sep 13, 2016

tedr1 said:
I don't have a camera to donate but I learned on film cameras. It was hard work. It makes no sense to teach beginners using film cameras when digital provides the instant feedback which learning thrives on. For the student trying to come to terms with the important issues of camera location, lens focal length, image framing, exposure and focus, film is a form of torture.

Them's fighting words!

Cannot disagree more. Feedback is what learning thrives on, but instant feedback results in transitory learning that doesn't "stick".

onre · Sep 13, 2016

I learned basics back when there was no d*gital and it didn't feel like torture at all.

CMoore · Sep 13, 2016

tedr1 said:
I don't have a camera to donate but I learned on film cameras. It was hard work. It makes no sense to teach beginners using film cameras when digital provides the instant feedback which learning thrives on. For the student trying to come to terms with the important issues of camera location, lens focal length, image framing, exposure and focus, film is a form of torture.

I understand what you are saying, and it is probably (regrettably) very true.
I think most schools DO TEACH beginners via digital cameras.
"Film" is usually an option for people that are revisiting cameras as an older adult that grew up during the film era, or for young people who want to experience the original form of the craft. It may also be a required course as part of a Photography/Art degree.
Though i would hardly call it torture. Most of the worlds well known, talented, successful photographers (as of 2016) learned with film. The "torture" as you call it, is the very labor, skill, effort that people enjoy about film. It is the very thing that separates Film from Digital photography.
There are many aspects of digital Cameras/Technology that make it a better choice for the bulk of society. But learning via film gives you a skill set that digital photographers will never have. There is also the joy of entering the physical darkroom itself, something that has no real analogy in the digital arena.
All my humble opinion of course.

flavio81 · Sep 13, 2016

tedr1 said:
I don't have a camera to donate but I learned on film cameras. It was hard work. It makes no sense to teach beginners using film cameras when digital provides the instant feedback which learning thrives on. For the student trying to come to terms with the important issues of camera location, lens focal length, image framing, exposure and focus, film is a form of torture.

I think I agree with this, as long as the student uses:

- Only fixed focal length lenses including at least a 50mm lens
- Preferably a full-frame camera.

If the student is going to use one of those crap d***tal slrs with 18-55mm lenses of tiny aperture, then he will not be able to get the real experience.

I learnt photography on film, and I think my learning would have been faster if I had not have to use film. On the other hand the jump from film to electronic cameras was a piece of cake.

canvassy · Sep 13, 2016

I am hopefully picking up a Minolta camera lot next week, if so I will have a MAXXUM 3XI and a Maxxum 7000 that I can donate. Both would have a lens of some sort. Let me know if you'd be interested, and I can let you know when I pick up the lot.

Old-N-Feeble · Sep 13, 2016

tedr1 said:
I don't have a camera to donate but I learned on film cameras. It was hard work. It makes no sense to teach beginners using film cameras when digital provides the instant feedback which learning thrives on. For the student trying to come to terms with the important issues of camera location, lens focal length, image framing, exposure and focus, film is a form of torture.

There's an element of truth to what you wrote but I'll add that the learning part of analog photography (as with any other endeavor) depends on direct observation of one's own failures and successes. And as you alluded to, the speedier the feedback of the actions/consequences loop, the more rapid the learning process. All analog photography processes could easily be learned in their entirety with manual exposure digital cameras along with proper software and viewing devices. That stated, a few days (maybe weeks?) of synthesized processes are all which would be needed before it would be necessary to switch over to the 'real stuff'. Else, one might become lost in the world of the 'unreal'.

What I used to tell people who asked for advice is; 1. At first, shoot with their camera on manual only. 2. Shoot only color slide film at first because slide film does not lie and it has little latitude for error. 3. If, after learning with slide film, the person is switching to black and white then they should do the entire process him/herself so he can learn not to torture lab technicians with sloppy work.

summicron1 · Sep 13, 2016

tedr1 said:
I don't have a camera to donate but I learned on film cameras. It was hard work. It makes no sense to teach beginners using film cameras when digital provides the instant feedback which learning thrives on. For the student trying to come to terms with the important issues of camera location, lens focal length, image framing, exposure and focus, film is a form of torture.

I don't think torture is the right word, and I suspect ur selling the kids of today short -- as I said, the classes seem to get a lot of interest.

On a side note -- the cameras I am donating for this are anywhere from 20 to 50 years of age. They do their job as well now as they always did and, more importantly, they can be used to do that job. Their technology is perfect and will never go out of date.

Interestingly, one of the cameras I donated last week was one of three given to me -- a Nikon FE (donated) and a video movie camera and a Canon DSLR.

The video camera is, of course, junk. It uses little tapes. Totally gone.

The DSLR is a Canon EOS 20 or something, a very expensive hunk of tech when it came out around 2004, and guess what? The school didn't want it. It would be "a backup to a backup," at best, they said. Totally useless even to teach digital on, even to give someone experience.

A 12 year old camera. And having goofed around with it here at home, I agree: totally useless, too hard to use, completely surpassed even by the small panasonic pt and sht I use for grandchild duty.

But my Leica M3, M4 and R4 all still do their job. And there we are.

darkroommike · Sep 14, 2016

I also teach photography at a state school and our school has a big problem with buying anything used, we have pointed out time and again that the only new 35mm SLR cameras available are Nikon F-6's and the terrible twins, the Nikon FM-10 and the very similar Vivitar (which seems to be no longer available). The FM-10 is the worst camera to ever wear a Nikon badge, the plastic film advance is junk. We can however accept donated cameras. I can not buy anymore cameras to donate to the school, my teaching gig paid below the poverty line last year.

fstop · Sep 14, 2016

MattKing said:
Them's fighting words!

Cannot disagree more. Feedback is what learning thrives on, but instant feedback results in transitory learning that doesn't "stick".

So you are saying that you should wait to find out what 2+2= ?
Polaroid worked hard to supply "pros" with medium and large format instant film so photographers didn't have to wait a week to check composition and exposure.
Making a student suffer their way through instruction is a recipe for disaster, instead of learning they will resent you.
Is the class a technical type of class that is teaching film exposure and processing or is an image making class that stresses composition and lighting? If its the latter the student will learn faster with instant feedback and become a better film user because of it.

Chan Tran · Sep 14, 2016

Even if a student is pursuing a degree mayor in photography I don't think film should be a requirement but certainly a welcome elective. And such there is no need for the school to supply students with cameras. The students who is interested should buy a camera to use.

MattKing · Sep 15, 2016

fstop said:
So you are saying that you should wait to find out what 2+2= ?
Polaroid worked hard to supply "pros" with medium and large format instant film so photographers didn't have to wait a week to check composition and exposure.
Making a student suffer their way through instruction is a recipe for disaster, instead of learning they will resent you.
Is the class a technical type of class that is teaching film exposure and processing or is an image making class that stresses composition and lighting? If its the latter the student will learn faster with instant feedback and become a better film user because of it.

Personally, I learn the most from prints and, when I am shooting transparency film, projected slides.

The viewing screens on the back of digital cameras are as likely to mislead me as to reveal what I need to know.

Its true you need to see the results of your efforts fairly promptly, but instantly - not so.

And I think there is a substantial difference between what shooting pros got from Polaroids and what new photographers get from being able to see their shots on their phone.

A lighting lesson learned with film is likely to be remembered.

summicron1 · Sep 17, 2016

canvassy said:
I am hopefully picking up a Minolta camera lot next week, if so I will have a MAXXUM 3XI and a Maxxum 7000 that I can donate. Both would have a lens of some sort. Let me know if you'd be interested, and I can let you know when I pick up the lot.

Those would be wonderful, assuming they both have shutter speeds and f-stops, not just automatic. Cameras that have both are OK, like the two AE1s I took down today.

So, yes, as long as they work ok and can be used manually, we're good and astonishingly grateful.

in fact, see below:

summicron1 · Sep 17, 2016

NEW ANNOUNCEMENT!!

I took two Canon AE1s over to Weber State today -- one was mine, another was donated (THANK YOU!!) and learned this:

It is standard procedure for Levi Jackson, the teacher/lab tech, to have students who use donated equipment make an extra print of something they've shot with the donated camera, once they figure out how to make good prints, of course. He then sends the print to the donor, a gratitude gift to show their donation is being used.

So, thank you most kindly for any help you can give. These will be ONE OF A KIND VALUABLE COLLECTIBLE PRINTS, I am sure. Certainly the gratitude they represent is worth a lot these days.

You can learn more about Weber State University (it is pronounced "WEE'-ber, not like the grill) by going to

www.weber.edu

Thank you

Charlie Trentelman

summicron1 · Sep 17, 2016

darkroommike said:
I also teach photography at a state school and our school has a big problem with buying anything used, we have pointed out time and again that the only new 35mm SLR cameras available are Nikon F-6's and the terrible twins, the Nikon FM-10 and the very similar Vivitar (which seems to be no longer available). The FM-10 is the worst camera to ever wear a Nikon badge, the plastic film advance is junk. We can however accept donated cameras. I can not buy anymore cameras to donate to the school, my teaching gig paid below the poverty line last year.

Mike -- have you tried putting out the word to locals that you could use donated cameras? Put up a notice at the local senior center, at the grocery store, places like that. Maybe even get the local newspaper interested in doing a story on your need for cheap old manual cameras that aren't worth anything (because, really, they aren't) but could be used to teach film photography.

Does the paper have a local columnist? If so, I can guarantee you he's desperate for ideas for his/her column and will welcome yours with open arm. Lean on the "No, film isn't dead" aspect of the project. Mention that you're teaching kids to take pictures the way their gandpa did and how you're a poor teacher.

Columnists love to help out the needy and quirky -- you'd be both. GOLDEN! Trust me--i was a columnist for 18 years, I know desperation.

If you can get the word out, donations flow in. Tell your friends on Facebook.

Heck, ask your friends here on APUG. I don't mind competition.

WTD CHEAP Working 35mm SLRs for School Use

summicron1

CMoore

Old-N-Feeble

Moopheus

CMoore

Moopheus

summicron1

MattKing

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summicron1

summicron1

tedr1

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onre

CMoore

flavio81

canvassy

Old-N-Feeble

summicron1

darkroommike

fstop

Chan Tran

MattKing

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summicron1

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summicron1

WTD CHEAP Working 35mm SLRs for School Use

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