Want to Buy WTB - Voigtlander Perkeo II

[ransel]

...in at lest good working and cosmetic condition

 

[stool]

I got a nice folder from jurgen at certo6, if you have not checked it out yet I highly recommend.

 

[bunip]

Hi,
I have some Perkeo I, Perkeo II, Perkeo III with Vaskar or Color Skopar lenses; I have also some Bessa 66 (the model previous the Perkeo, even smaller than the Perkeo itself) with Voigtar, Skopar and Heliar lenses. Do you know all of these? What is your budget? do you need any accessory?
kind regards,
paolo

 

[baachitraka]

Nothing can beat a well serviced Rolleicord(pref., Triotar) with a nice focusing screen. I know folders are compact but there are some weaknesses.

* Perkeo with Color-Skopar and Prontor SVS can be nice if you don't find synchro-compurs.

 

[bunip]

On the Perkeo Prontor shutters works much better than The Synchro-compur that is more delicate and more often jammed. In addition Synchro-compur doesn't have the selftimer (on this camera) that I consider useful in a folding camera like this.

 

[ransel]

Thanks for the input - I recently acquired a Perkeo I and II, both in very nice condition. While I really like the compact size I am frustrated with the scale focusing, namely the fact that the scale on the lens does not actually match the actual focus of the image. I have done critical tests with a loupe, tape measure, and ground-glass on both cameras and they are both off by about 10-12cm at the close focus end - and that is measuring from the lens to the subject. If I measure to the film plane it is an even larger discrepancy. Anyway, these cameras are good for one thing, shooting at longer distances with the aperture stopped down. Oh well...

 

[baachitraka]

Still my personal favorite is Agfa Isolette II/III with Solinar 75mm f/3.5 lens. But after experiencing its weekness I am happy with Rolleicord.
A good clean triotar is a magic and so are xenars.

Good luck in finding your favourite.

 

[ransel]

Actually, I just love my Yashica D. It is looking like, if you want a folder that is usable, you have to spend a lot and get one with coupled rangefinder. Because if you don't want a lot of out-of-focus images when using a scale focus model, you have to shoot higher speed film at small apertures, or make sure all your subjects are at 5m+...darn it!

 

[bunip]

Often these folding cameras are completely out of focus. There is a ring around the lens where the distances are written on that can slip if screws are loose or have been loosened by any attempt to service the lens. So you surely need to recalibrate the focus if you like to use it actually. I use regularly my perkeoII and it is really very sharp and the smallest 6x6 you can find. I have also many isolette and ikontas and the sharpest lenses I'v had are the Zeiss Opton Tessar 75 3,5 coated, the Solinar 75 3,5 coated and this Color Skopar in the perkeo.

 

[bunip]

About out-of-focus images i use these cameras for family photography, so portraits, groups and kid's action, with a small voigtlander rangefinder. I try to never guesstimate because i'm not able to. I own also the super Isolette, coupled rangefinder, the bessaII, coupled rangefinder and few super ikontas with coupled rangefinder but I never noticed any difference from coupled, uncoupled or absent rangefinder in terms of percentage of out-of-focus shots. In my personal experience is easier to get used to a small rangefinder than to get the ability to estimate the distance.

 

[ransel]

On both of my Perkeo's, when I turn the lens scale to infinity it stops exactly at the infinity mark, so I assume that the scale is set where it is supposed to be but that the markings are just not engraved exactly where they need to be. My concern is if I attempt to adjust, so that when I turn it to 1.5m it is calibrated, that the infinity will no longer be correct. I will have to play with them some more. I just don't want to mess up anything.

 

[bunip]

That is a problem common on most of these folders. When I calibrate focus, also on zeiss or agfa cameras, I often have to choose if calibrate for infinity or 3 meters. I obviously calibrate for 3 meters as the short distance is more critical. Rarely i find a camera that is very accurate both on infinity and short distance. I don't know why. Often I see from those very accurate ones that some pictures are out-of-focus and I think this could be a film flatness problem. A possible solution to your situation is to get a voigtlander rangefinder and to calibrate it to collimate your camera's focus. It is very simple to do it, it's inexpencive (20-40 euro mint with box) and the rf is very very small.
http://www.ebay.it/itm/Vintage-voig...851272?hash=item43ee8a5248:g:L9kAAOSwxfNXOLOm
http://www.ebay.it/itm/TELEMETRO-VO...454622?hash=item1a1326b95e:g:7VwAAOSwzgRW1GlG
http://www.ebay.de/itm/RANGEFINDER-...756139?hash=item25bc3abd6b:g:yM8AAOSwwbdWPTM3
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Voigtlander-...641883?hash=item4d43c7af9b:g:MWsAAOSwsN9XBSj9

 

[ransel]

I just tried to adjust the focus scale on my Perkeo I, to match accurately the distance from the subject to the film plane. Took the scale ring off and placed the film plane exactly 3.5 feet from from the subject (as it was, it was off by about a foot or more). After critically focusing the lens on ground-glass I remounted the scale so that it was set at 3.5 feet, I rechecked it, focusing both f/4.5 - and at f/8. Now I was confident that I had close focus set.
I then moved the camera back to 6 feet - again focused on the same subject both at f/4.5 and f/8 - the scale read about 9.5 feet - off by a distance of 3.5 feet. I then moved the camera film plane to a distance of 8 feet, again focused f/4.5 and f/8 - focus scale read 20 feet - off by 12 feet. I moved back to 3.5 feet and it focused correctly.
I have tried this several times, set the camera film plane at 6 feet, adjusted the scale to read 6 feet, then rechecked at various distances and all were off by varying distances. It seems that once the scale is set to focus at a particular distance, that is the only distance that will focus accurately.

This is the same problem I ran into a while back with my Agfa Billy Record II - the focus scale on the lens was not accurately calibrated and since the increments are off it is impossible to re-calibrate it.

Is this German engineering?

It appears to me, if one wants to insure accurate focus on a scale focus camera, one has to make their own scale to adhere to the lens. I guess I could try making one in Photoshop, print it out and glue over the existing scale...? Very disappointing.

I guess now I'll see how far off the Perkeo II is. If it suffers from the same poor design, I am done with scale focus folders. The carry-ability of a folder is worthless if all my pictures are going to be out of focus.

 

[SalveSlog]

Ransel, have you tried measuring from the lens? Not the film plane. I'm not shure that measuring from the film plane is correct for old folders or view cameras. (see this (there was a url link here which no longer exists))

 

[ransel]

Well, that's just 75mm difference, but to make sure I just tested the Perkeo II, which was also off, only not as much. So, I adjusted it from the shutter, or about where the aperture would be located. I set shutter at 1.4m distance from subject, focused at wide open and f/5.6, remounted the focus scale ring and rechecked.

Next, I moved camera to 2.3m from subject, again focused - scale read 2.5m. I am already off by 20cm (almost 8").

Next, I moved camera shutter to 3.2m - focused - scale read 4m - off by 80cm (31.5")

Next, I focused at 7m on the scale and then used Nikon F w/50mm lens to compare - Nikon read 5m. I then used tape measure and the Nikon 50mm was correct. So focusing at 16.5 feet the camera is 6.5 feet off - doesn't matter if measuring from lens or film plane...does it?

Oh well, that was a morning wasted on cameras that I can not use. I can tolerate slow shutters - I can estimate distance, but I can't estimate distance and then try to guess how far off the distance scale on the camera is.

Two Perkeo's for sale...cheep!

 

[MattKing]

Replace the focus scale with a stick on label with the correct (for your camera) distances.

 

[ransel]

Replace the focus scale with a stick on label with the correct (for your camera) distances.

I don't have a "Focus Scales R Us" store in my area

I thought about that, but going through the process of doing the measurements - again - for both cameras, and having to construct scales in PS, then finding a suitable adhesive material to print out on...just sounds like a lot of work fixing what Voigtlander should have corrected many, many years ago.

 

[MattKing]

I don't have a "Focus Scales R Us" store in my area

I thought about that, but going through the process of doing the measurements - again - for both cameras, and having to construct scales in PS, then finding a suitable adhesive material to print out on...just sounds like a lot of work fixing what Voigtlander should have corrected many, many years ago.

I agree, but if you otherwise like the camera you already own ....

 

[ransel]

Well, you have a point. I really like the build and compactness. I may try it for the Perkeo I. If I have any success, may try it on the II.