Want to Buy WTB: Betterscanning film holders for V850

Mesabound · Mar 4, 2021

Looking for the following:

- 1 MF film holder (ideally w/ two pieces of ANR glass)
- 1 variable mounting station w/ ANR glass (fluid and dry mount capability)

I would buy new but as Betterscanning seems to unfortunately be defunct, I will just hope someone no longer has need for these supplies.

Donald Qualls · Mar 4, 2021

Mesabound said:
as Betterscanning seems to unfortunately be defunct

Well, that sucks. I'm just about to get a V850 and was looking forward to slowly adding their stuff to get as close as possible to drum scan quality.

Mesabound · Mar 4, 2021

Tell me about it! Same boat. Was super happy to have found a mount that could easily accommodate 5x7 + Type 665 but alas.

Hope everyone but the biz is ok

GRHazelton · Mar 4, 2021

Who knows? I just googled their website, it came up. The newest Epson scanner listed showed goodies for the V750. I have a V700, it'd be nice to have one of their adjustable height carriers for35mm, I have the carrier for 120 film, after some fiddley adjustments my scans from these formats 6 x 6 and 6 x 4.5 are sharp corner to corner.

Mesabound · Mar 4, 2021

You're right but it seems it's been nearly a year since anyone has had their correspondence returned (based on several threads here and otherwise), which tracks w/ my own efforts. Certainly hoping for the best though, so we can all max out our scanning efforts while supporting small business. They certainly have quite a windfall waiting for them.

MattKing · Mar 4, 2021

I don't think it is a "they". I think it is Doug Fisher.

SrMi · Mar 4, 2021

I ordered holders from BetterScanning but did not hear anything back. Also sent an email, but heard nothing back. I hope Doug is alright

Mesabound · Mar 4, 2021

MattKing said:
I don't think it is a "they". I think it is Doug Fisher.

Noted.

Auer · Mar 5, 2021

I contacted them in 2020 about some glass, never heard back.
Assuming out of business.

Donald Qualls · Mar 5, 2021

I'm pretty sure accessories for V750 and V700 interchange -- they differ in optical resolution and possibly light source (LED vs. cold cathode fluorescent), but the physical fit of negative holders and such seems to be the same.

Mesabound · Mar 5, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I'm pretty sure accessories for V750 and V700 interchange -- they differ in optical resolution and possibly light source (LED vs. cold cathode fluorescent), but the physical fit of negative holders and such seems to be the same.

Yes, I believe the 700, 750, 800, and 850 all interchange. And by all accounts the provided 850 holders do a good job (though I've read the MF holder can be a little uncooperative).

That said, the big advantages of the Betterscanning models from what I can tell is 1) height adjustment is a little more fine-tuned and 2) the ability to invert the mount so that you are only scanning through one layer of glass, as opposed to at least two in, for example, the Epson fluid mount. This video from Nick Carver does a good job of illustrating how the latter induces slightly reduced sharpness (not a big deal IMO), as well as some color fringing (much more annoying):
Note that he is using a V750, so perhaps a V850 will produce other results. Regardless I will soon be able to experiment myself as this is the road I'll be going down until I might be able to come across some used BS holders.

Donald Qualls · Mar 5, 2021

I wouldn't expect any different results between a V750 and a V850. As far as I'm aware, the only difference between them is that the V800 and V850 will scan 8x10 transparencies/negatives, while the V700/V750 are limited to 5x7 (and don't have a holder for that, but will do two 4x5). In the V800/V850, with only factory accessories, the 8x10 is laid directly on the scanning glass; this strongly militates for wanting wet mount, if only to eliminated Newton rings.

SrMi · Mar 5, 2021

One difference with the v850 film holders is that they have a glass cover, which is a huge dust magnet. While waiting on v750 holders, I am trying out the OKLILI holder (no glass).

Donald Qualls · Mar 6, 2021

SrMi said:
One difference with the v850 film holders is that they have a glass cover, which is a huge dust magnet. While waiting on v750 holders, I am trying out the OKLILI holder (no glass).

Everything is tradeoffs. If you have good dust control in your workflow, additional glass may be acceptable for the gain in film flatness vs. the sag from edge to center of 120 (especially 6x7 and 6x9). If you're like me, working in an open space with cats and carpet, film flatness is the least of your worries...

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 6, 2021

I used a v600 for ten years and upgraded to a V850 when I started shooting 4x5. The V850 holders come with glass built in to keep the film flat. All formats have the glass 35mm, 120, and 4x5. There are two holders for each format so you can prepare for the next scan with the second holder while the scanner is scanning using the first. The holders are also height adjustable with a slider at each corner of the holders. Much simpler to adjust than the Betterscanner one. I had bought the Betterscanning holder for my V600. But didn;t like it. Frankly, the V850 holders are perfectly acceptable. I do agree dust is more of a problem because of the extra glass. But then your negatives are held flat unlike the V600 holders without the glass. But I imagine you'll have more dust with a Betterscanner holder too since it has extra glass as well.

You can see loads of scans on my Flickr page from both scanners. Note that I use Epsonscan software that comes with the scanners to scan everything.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/albums
Also, here's a comparison of one of my 4x5 between the v850 and a Howtek drum scanner.
https://www.largeformatphotography....-Epson-V850-flatbed-scanners&highlight=howtek

Oren Grad · Mar 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I wouldn't expect any different results between a V750 and a V850. As far as I'm aware, the only difference between them is that the V800 and V850 will scan 8x10 transparencies/negatives, while the V700/V750 are limited to 5x7 (and don't have a holder for that, but will do two 4x5). In the V800/V850, with only factory accessories, the 8x10 is laid directly on the scanning glass; this strongly militates for wanting wet mount, if only to eliminated Newton rings.

This is not correct. The V700/V750 as well can scan transparent materials up to 8x10 laid directly on the bed. (I have a V700 and have used it to scan negatives up to whole plate that way.) The main difference between the 700 and 800 series is a new light source in the 800 series - the 700's use a cold cathode tube, the 800's use LEDs.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 6, 2021

I have one that will scan up to 4x5. When I first got the Better Scan system, it took a while to get everything calibrated. I had to use tape to hold the film in place. It was a total pain. I've never tried fluid mounting my negs, but the gain in sharpness is marginal. I use it in frequently.

Donald Qualls · Mar 6, 2021

Oren Grad said:
This is not correct. The V700/V750 as well can scan transparent materials up to 8x10 laid directly on the bed. (I have a V700 and have used it to scan negatives up to whole plate that way.) The main difference between the 700 and 800 series is a new light source in the 800 series - the 700's use a cold cathode tube, the 800's use LEDs.

Okay, thanks for the correction -- the jump from 700 to 750, 800 to 850 must be where they increased the resolution, then. They're now claiming 6400ppi optical, and 9600 microstep, IIRC. Faster scanning, no warmup, and higher resolution (plus new glass without scratches inherited from the previous owner) will be a big step up for me from the 4870 I have now, though I might also have to install a USB 3.0 expansion card -- I don't think my motherboard has any of that generation/speed built in.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 6, 2021

2400 is about it for resolution with the V850. Setting higher bit rates is a waste of time. If you need more bits, uprez it afterward in your post-processing program.

SrMi · Mar 6, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Okay, thanks for the correction -- the jump from 700 to 750, 800 to 850 must be where they increased the resolution, then. They're now claiming 6400ppi optical, and 9600 microstep, IIRC. Faster scanning, no warmup, and higher resolution (plus new glass without scratches inherited from the previous owner) will be a big step up for me from the 4870 I have now, though I might also have to install a USB 3.0 expansion card -- I don't think my motherboard has any of that generation/speed built in.

Here is a good comparison of v850 with v750 and what changed:
https://filmscanner.info/en/EpsonPerfectionV850Pro.html
(Faster warmup, different light source, and the new film holders)

SrMi · Mar 6, 2021

Alan Edward Klein said:
2400 is about it for resolution with the V850. Setting higher bit rates is a waste of time. If you need more bits, uprez it afterward in your post-processing program.

I guess that you did no mean bit rate, but the resolution (spi or ppi).

I also read that whatever resolution you set in the scanner software, the resolution will not be higher than 2800 spi:

https://www.sebastian-schlueter.com...lution-sharpening-settings-for-epson-scanners

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2021

And both of those concerns -- loss of resolution and putative color errors due to glass carriers, as well as resolution limits much lower than the claimed optical resolution, are mostly resolved by wet mount scanning which, however, takes a little longer to set up for each negative or strip. Given the 700/800 family of scanners apparently has fixed focus (hence the need for height-adjustable carriers), being able to flatten the sagging of 120 film seems like an overall gain, but either way, the V850 will be a huge step up from my 4870 -- faster operating, no warmup delay (which, for the scanner I have, amounts to 15-20 seconds for EACH FRAME scanned), not to mention hopefully being able to use batch scanning (which I haven't yet been able to figure out in Vuescan -- but Silverfast comes in a Linux flavor, as I recall, unlike Epson Scan) -- set up the frames (manually if needed; some of my cameras have imperfect frame spacing), start the scan, and go to bed. Another huge productivity gain.

Alan Edward Klein · Mar 7, 2021

The one problem with the new V850 holder with the glass for 120 films is that they don't handle 3 frames. So many of my original negatives were cut to 3-3-2-2 (that's for 6x7cm 120 camera). So the 3's have to be recut to 2 + 1 frames to get them to fit in the film holders. I can't figure what Epson was thinking when they designed these holders. They were out to lunch.

Donald Qualls · Mar 7, 2021

The good news is, the old style V700/V800 holders reportedly fit the V750 and V850 and, aside from not allowing automatic frame selection for multi-scan due to the change in number/location of film frames, work correctly. That lets you load two slightly longer strips of 120, two (instead of one) 4x5, or four (instead of three) six-frame strips of 35mm.

I can only presume "the focus groups" told them it was more important to have anti-Newton (or plain?) glass on both sides, to hold the film flat, than to be able to scan the way people had been scanning since the 48xx/49xx series was new. If it's actually anti-Newton, the shortened carriers and reduce strip/frame count might have to do with the cost of that glass surface (high enough to be quite visible in the price point of the final unit, now selling for around $1100-$1300, depending which version you get and from where).

SrMi · Mar 7, 2021

The problem is that V700 holders are hard to find especially the ones for 35mm.
Note that the ANR in V850 is made out of plexiglass, which really attracts dust. It would be nice if someone could replace them with real ANR glass.

Want to Buy WTB: Betterscanning film holders for V850

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