Writing down the details

TareqPhoto · Aug 14, 2016

I would like to know what is your way to write down or noting the details you do with film such as camera used, the film, the developer,....etc.

I created a page with table included, what do you think about it? and what should i change about it?

I want to use this sheet as details recording, i bought a small note but i feel notes aren't that much clear if i mess writing the details and if the note is small, and the writing is taking time for me, but the this kind of sheet i can just fill the blanks to save time for me, give me any suggestions or opinions, please.

Attached 2 versions of the same page details i am looking for, the second one i added lines for notes if i want to write down the steps i did in processing.

Jim Noel · Aug 14, 2016

I have two of the original Ansel Adams record notebooks produced by Morgan & Lester. I also was lucky enough to find some additional pages for them several years ago. These have camera,film and exposure information on one side, and room for processing and other notes on the reverse.

TareqPhoto · Aug 14, 2016

I don't have that, so that i wrote down the one i attached, what do you think about it? how does that of AA record notebook look like? i will use what i created for a while until i see/find something else.

silveror0 · Aug 14, 2016

I re-created the AA version of field notes (4.25x6.75 inch pages in a 6-hole small ring binder) in an Excel file, editing it with a few personal alterations for my convenience in using the Zone System. I also have a file numbering system that allows each (keeper) negative to have its own ID number, so my Exposure Record has a space for that number to be entered at a later time. I've standardized my processing, so there's really no need for recording film processing in the field notes (except for expansion/contraction decisions), as those records can be kept in the darkroom notebook. The Excel file is set up to make a duplex copy, so that the reverse side retains space for individual negative notes and space for a few sketches of subjects to record spot metering decisions. This allows me to print additional pages for the notebook when needed. This should work for me until Microsoft decides to make changes to Excel software that obliterates my file.

A few suggestions to think about for your records form:

Change "Film" to Film / ISO
Change "ISO" to EI for your personal rating
Change "Shutter speed" to Setting / Actual (if actuals are known)

Hope this is helpful.

TareqPhoto · Aug 14, 2016

silveror0 said:
I re-created the AA version of field notes (4.25x6.75 inch pages in a 6-hole small ring binder) in an Excel file, editing it with a few personal alterations for my convenience in using the Zone System. I also have a file numbering system that allows each (keeper) negative to have its own ID number, so my Exposure Record has a space for that number to be entered at a later time. I've standardized my processing, so there's really no need for recording film processing in the field notes (except for expansion/contraction decisions), as those records can be kept in the darkroom notebook. The Excel file is set up to make a duplex copy, so that the reverse side retains space for individual negative notes and space for a few sketches of subjects to record spot metering decisions. This allows me to print additional pages for the notebook when needed. This should work for me until Microsoft decides to make changes to Excel software that obliterates my file.

A few suggestions to think about for your records form:

Change "Film" to Film / ISO

Change "ISO" to EI for your personal rating

Change "Shutter speed" to Setting / Actual (if actuals are known)

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks!

And i hope to see that Excel file you made, and before that to see that AA notes first to see the comparison.

About your points, they are valid, i will do it, i just mentioned film and ISO separately as i am not good at abbriv. such as EI so i know that the film name is remain the same and the ISO can be either the box or altered to suit the exposure, and i know it is called EI as brief, not a bad idea.

But wanted to know what do you mean by Setting / Actual? I know what setting means, but what is Actual means here?

Also i revised my page and i added the date for film exposed and the date for film processed just as reference, not sure if this is really important, but wanted to be closer to what EXIF do in digital which mentioning the date of photos taken and photos edited/uploaded.

I didn't include for print as i am still not printing anything yet, i just created this page for exposure and processing only without much altering or printing as well, and your idea about Zone System is also good, but i keep using my digital camera or light meter to get the exposure and most of the time i do things straight without doing much of post processing later with film, but i should think about adding this Zone System as well, who knows when i will understand it and then use it.

Something to add, is to put the movements settings too in case if i will use the large format system, but i don't know if this will help me really or necessary, most of the time i won't stay long when shooting the pic so it means i don't have to write down every movements i use, what do you think?

Ashfaque · Aug 14, 2016

For every frame details, try (there was a url link here which no longer exists) (available in Android only). Really neat.

For overall/summary details, I created my own template. You'll find two versions of the file. The 'B&W_Film_development_log_v2.pdf' file can be printed on both sides and 2 pages each side on an A4/Letter sheet. You can print as many as you like, fold them into half, and stitch - you've now created your own A5 film dev. log book! You'll find an earlier version of LaTex file there to fine tune it as you see fit.

TareqPhoto · Aug 14, 2016

Cool, this is good job, thank you very much!

I think i have to modify my page with what you did or use yours, somehow i feel that sheet is a bit confusing for me, so i try to simplify to my way, got the idea.

TheRook · Aug 14, 2016

For sheet film, I think your charts will work great, but for roll film not so much as you often won't be using the same shutter speed, aperture setting and filter throughout the entire roll.

silveror0 · Aug 14, 2016

TareqPhoto said:
... i hope to see that Excel file you made, and before that to see that AA notes first to see the comparison...

...But wanted to know what do you mean by Setting / Actual? I know what setting means, but what is Actual means here? ...

...I didn't include for print as i am still not printing anything yet, i just created this page for exposure and processing only without much altering or printing as well, and your idea about Zone System is also good, but i keep using my digital camera or light meter to get the exposure and most of the time i do things straight without doing much of post processing later with film, but i should think about adding this Zone System as well, who knows when i will understand it and then use it...

...Something to add, is to put the movements settings too in case if i will use the large format system, but i don't know if this will help me really or necessary, most of the time i won't stay long when shooting the pic so it means i don't have to write down every movements i use, what do you think?

Since you're not using the ZnSys I doubt my field notes will be very useful to you right now. When (if) you're ready for it, you can find AA's version in The Negative on pg. 265.

Setting / Actual refers to both the shutter setting and the TRUE speed (if not accurate); I chose to make my own shutter speed checker as shown in Way Beyond Monochrome - a highly recommended book on most all aspects of photography. Since I'm using only large format I built a fixture out of MDB material to hold the lens/shutter and the sensor in position while I checked each speed.

I doubt it's necessary to record camera movements when shooting large format, unless it's for studio work with complex movements where returning for a re-shoot later would be a time-saver. But certainly not for any other kind of work.

Sirius Glass · Aug 14, 2016

I take developing and printing notes in a notebook.

TareqPhoto · Aug 14, 2016

silveror0 said:
Since you're not using the ZnSys I doubt my field notes will be very useful to you right now. When (if) you're ready for it, you can find AA's version in The Negative on pg. 265.

Setting / Actual refers to both the shutter setting and the TRUE speed (if not accurate); I chose to make my own shutter speed checker as shown in Way Beyond Monochrome - a highly recommended book on most all aspects of photography. Since I'm using only large format I built a fixture out of MDB material to hold the lens/shutter and the sensor in position while I checked each speed.

I doubt it's necessary to record camera movements when shooting large format, unless it's for studio work with complex movements where returning for a re-shoot later would be a time-saver. But certainly not for any other kind of work.

Understood.

I was thinking to buy that book about BTZS one, but i always got busy and spend money on other things, and not sure if i have to now, i don't have the AA's 3 main books and i hope i can find this topic in his "The Camera" one, and i think i once did shoot one roll for one item/subject but changing the exposure from under to over to see which is the best i can get, is this the ZS you are talking about?.

I agree, i don't think i really need to note the movements when shooting outdoor or landscape as it will not be constant all the time, but i may use that in studio as you mentioned if i fixed the subject mostly for still life or maybe portraits sometimes.

TareqPhoto · Aug 14, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
I take developing and printing notes in a notebook.

What do you mean? or how?

silveror0 · Aug 14, 2016

TareqPhoto said:
...i hope i can find this topic in his "The Camera" one, and i think i once did shoot one roll for one item/subject but changing the exposure from under to over to see which is the best i can get, is this the ZS you are talking about?...

I looked in my copy of The Camera and found his statement on pg. 175 that examples of Exposure Record pages would be shown in Book 2 The Negative (that I referred to earlier). I think you're confused about the ZS I'm referring to; it seems you're thinking of it as "bracketing" your exposures around what the meter is telling you, using both more and less exposure than the meter says to use. The ZS is much more than that.

However you end up designing your exposure record sheet, you should be sure to have a retrieval system as well, so you can quickly find the data you're looking for later on, and avoid spending a lot of time rummaging through a bunch of notepaper to find it. I find using a negative ID number is the key to that process.

Patrick Robert James · Aug 14, 2016

I use Lightroom. As much as I am committed, and love, analog photography, Lightroom just plain makes it easier to organize it all. That said, all my 4x5 film holders are binary notched and I do sometimes keep notes. Most of my notes though are kept in my head. As I am getting older, it isn't as reliable as it used to be. I do surprise myself though that I can remember so many details about photographs I have taken even though I can't remember jack squat about other things.

I did use to have one of those Ansel Adams exposure books. I sold it because I never used it, but I did scan the pages just in case....

Sirius Glass · Aug 14, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
I take developing and printing notes in a notebook.

TareqPhoto said:
What do you mean? or how?

Developing time, temperate and how much replenisher was added for film. When the chemicals were mixed.

For printing negative number, exposure, aperture, filters, when the chemicals were mixed. Any unusual dodging or burning.

Vaughn · Aug 14, 2016

I use water-proof Rite-In-the-Rain notebooks (this one is a Level notebook). About 4.5"x7" when closed.

Info is transferred onto the paper negative sleeve, along with the development data. I prefer this free-form approach, rather than a printed data sheet. Image is of a random page -- small schetches to help me figure which is which.

Helinophoto · Aug 15, 2016

I never jot the data per exposure, as I shoot 120 and 35mm. (large format would be another matter).
- My Canon 1v does preserve the shot data though, and even put a small, auto-incremental ID on each negative roll, but I've never really used it or saved it at all.

The data I do preserve, I write on the negative sleeve. I also always scan the whole sleeve or individual frames and I then tag all of them with data. (lightroom).

On the sleeve:
year - camera - film type - EI - Developer - time - agitation-scheme
2016 - Rolleiflex 2.8F - Trix-400 @ 200 in HC-110 Dil B. for 4 minutes 30 seconds - 1 min. init, then 2 inv/min.

In Lightroom:
Film and EI
Developing time
Developer
Camera
Lens (when applicable)
Sometimes year, depends
(sometimes I also tag the photo with other metadata, like names of people, or subject, setting etc).

If Lightroom is lost in the future, the files themselves usually hold some information
Camera_film_EI_developer.jpg
Rolleiflex28F_TriX400_at_200_HC110B.jpg is a typical example.

TareqPhoto · Aug 15, 2016

Well, i write those details in papers or notes but i felt like lazy to keep writing everything again and again mostly the same things such as Camera:/Film:/Lens:....etc, so that i created this page to just fill out the blanks with new information or data and the fixed data is there, filling the blank for me is easier and quicker than writing down everything from beginning.

I still have some notes i wrote before and i wrote on the sleeve the reference number i used in the note, but i want to have this kind of form where i can fill it either by hand writing or on computer by typing and save it either in a file archive in my desk or digitally.

In all cases, i attached that sheet i created to see how much i need to change things, and sounds i am gonna modify it one more to be more acceptable, and if you checked that second sheet i did put "Notes" in the bottom of the table where i write the steps in processing including the dilution amount and temp and agitation and such, i don't need to put those in the table itself, but i can make those step in another table and printed on the back of same sheet so i can have 2 pages on 1 A4 paper both sides, i keep the development process in the back and leave the front for exposure data mostly or main information including the name of film and chemical used.

Gerald C Koch · Aug 15, 2016

AA was shooting LF which tends to be more contemplative than other formats. By this I mean that there is plenty of time to record detailed notes using a rigid form. This is usually not the case for the other two formats whose users are usually more time pressed. I do recommend keeping a notebook but using an elaborate form does not seem to be the answer. I personally use and recommend a small bound field notebook to which printed notes could not be added.

jeffreyg · Aug 15, 2016

Since I shoot with available light, most often pretty well stopped down and whenever possible with a tripod I don't keep records of exposure. When I print I write the printing information on the mylar sleeve I keep the negatives in.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

LAG · Aug 15, 2016

TareqPhoto said:
I would like to know what is your way to write down or noting the details you do with film such as camera used, the film, the developer,....etc.

I created a page with table included, what do you think about it? and what should i change about it?

I want to use this sheet as details recording, i bought a small note but i feel notes aren't that much clear if i mess writing the details and if the note is small, and the writing is taking time for me, but the this kind of sheet i can just fill the blanks to save time for me, give me any suggestions or opinions, please.

Attached 2 versions of the same page details i am looking for, the second one i added lines for notes if i want to write down the steps i did in processing.

Excuse me

Writing down the detail of your work, not only helps to remember or to archive data, it’s very useful for some other reasons … This is the simple way I do (pocketbook & pencil), using my own known mnemonic abbreviations to fill in the fields:

Film & E.I.

Date & Time

Box (Camera, if any) & Lens [mm] (if any)

Number (of photo) & E.V. [f/x (if any) & t/x]

Subject & extra notes

Process & Notes

TareqPhoto · Aug 15, 2016

Well, sometimes i don't understand you or you don't understand me, we all have our own ways in anything, and if one way is working for someone it doesn't mean it must work for others.

Labelling my lens or camera or film holder or whatever isn't my way at all, i used to do that but it didn't make sense for me after a while, also doing more of lines and number and sketches in notes sometimes help but not always, and i really hate to see more of this kind of notes or pages, it is like i do a quick summarizing of a long book, so i do write many many things i did/remember in just one small page, but if it is under kind of sheet or form it will help me being more organized or clean/clear way of noting things, and i do respect everyone ways of writing down, i remember in university when we are recording a lecture, different student have their own ways, and sometimes we copy that lecture from one student who keep he hand writing and things in very clear straight forward way so we all can read and understand, while others i can't read until i ask him about each words or numbers that i can't recognize due to his handwriting and mixing things all around.

I attached/uploaded new one after i modified it into more fields, thanks for your points so that i did that one, but i forgot to add time for processing, but i can add that easily if you think it is must or just write it in the temp/dil/agitation fields.

LAG · Aug 15, 2016

TareqPhoto said:
... i remember in university when we are recording a lecture, different student have their own ways, and sometimes we copy that lecture from one student who keep he hand writing and things in very clear straight forward way so we all can read and understand, while others i can't read until i ask him about each words or numbers that i can't recognize due to his handwriting and mixing things all around.

Excuse me

In my personal opinion, you don't write down details for others, if it is clear for you, enough. Second, it is very important to fill the fields as quickly as possible (if your intention is writting down the most of them while you're working), so taking both things together you have 1. the shorter the writting, the sooner you'll end up 2. the less fields to fill, the better you'll feel.

In the attached file, i think that the blank space for some fields have plenty of room for too little data to work with, and as for the fields themselves i think you can regroup some information, leading them to be less, but complete at the same time.

TareqPhoto · Aug 15, 2016

LAG said:
Excuse me

In my personal opinion, you don't write down details for others, if it is clear for you, enough. Second, it is very important to fill the fields as quickly as possible (if your intention is writting down the most of them while you're working), so taking both things together you have 1. the shorter the writting, the sooner you'll end up 2. the less fields to fill, the better you'll feel.

In the attached file, i think that the blank space for some fields have plenty of room for too little data to work with, and as for the fields themselves i think you can regroup some information, leading them to be less, but complete at the same time.

I understand your point, but i feel that i better put things under easier way to read/understand/recognize, i showed my daughters your notes and they told me they will never understand it even if they study it, so that was my point, and in doing film processing we are using English language which is not our language anyway, so i try to make it as well designed tables or forms or data sheet way then just quick handwriting and symbols that giving the full idea but not to our understanding.

I think you prefer the type of having figures and numbers of main things you need to know and discard other things, such as Camera field, lens field,...etc, for my daughters they don't know the name of developer or dilution or time until i right what are those numbers for, you may right HC-110[H]/22C/6m and i know it quickly as i am in that for long time, but as i am new i may forget what are those words or numbers after 2 or 3 years, so my kids will never know what are those until i write something referring to those words and numbers.

Also, the notes i wrote in the past i always do it after i finish my processing completely, and sometimes i forgot what is the temp i used or what the agitation i used or what the dilution if there is more than one dilution to use, so i have form or data sheet ready to fill is a saving time for me, i don't like to write just like 1+20 as i may confuse it with developer or fixer, and if i have to write the name of developer or the word "Developer Dil" every time then i may hate to write down anything, and sometimes of laziness i may right TMAX, and you know there is film named TMAX and developer named TMAX, or if i write Ilford and stopped there because not interested in to write more.

Let's say, to make it easy for me to understand your way of writing/recording your film work, what things are you most focusing to write down or mention? looking at your notes above i never understand anything at all, i know it is yours, but what are you trying to write down, and why you make it as you only can understand or your people? so if i want to duplicate your method and i saw your notes to follow i may just give up and don't use your method, not talking about copywriting or something of that, but to follow a successful method for example, so help me to understand your notes more.

LAG · Aug 15, 2016

Excuse me TareqPhoto

TareqPhoto said:
I understand your point, but i feel that i better put things under easier way to read/understand/recognize, i showed my daughters your notes and they told me they will never understand it even if they study it, so that was my point, and in doing film processing we are using English language which is not our language anyway, so i try to make it as well designed tables or forms or data sheet way then just quick handwriting and symbols that giving the full idea but not to our understanding.

I think you prefer the type of having figures and numbers of main things you need to know and discard other things, such as Camera field, lens field,...etc, for my daughters they don't know the name of developer or dilution or time until i right what are those numbers for, you may right HC-110[H]/22C/6m and i know it quickly as i am in that for long time, but as i am new i may forget what are those words or numbers after 2 or 3 years, so my kids will never know what are those until i write something referring to those words and numbers.

Also, the notes i wrote in the past i always do it after i finish my processing completely, and sometimes i forgot what is the temp i used or what the agitation i used or what the dilution if there is more than one dilution to use, so i have form or data sheet ready to fill is a saving time for me, i don't like to write just like 1+20 as i may confuse it with developer or fixer, and if i have to write the name of developer or the word "Developer Dil" every time then i may hate to write down anything, and sometimes of laziness i may right TMAX, and you know there is film named TMAX and developer named TMAX, or if i write Ilford and stopped there because not interested in to write more.

You yourself wrote the answer in your keyboard before, take a look:

TareqPhoto said:
....we all have our own ways in anything, and if one way is working for someone it doesn't mean it must work for others....

In your OP, you asked that you'd like to know what is our way to write down ... and i showed mine. I am not saying you have to use any method (nor mine)

I mean, the way i do is good for me, not for you, not for you to teach your daughters (but I am completely sure that they would understand it all with the appropriate - and basic - technical knowledge "of photography") What i am trying to say is that the fields i showed you, contain all the information needed in order to remember my work and helps to improve my performance, and all that using only the typical annotations concerning the Photographic issue. There is no mystery about it for anyone.

TareqPhoto said:
Let's say, to make it easy for me to understand your way of writing/recording your film work, what things are you most focusing to write down or mention?

Everything. I don't discard anything.

TareqPhoto said:
looking at your notes above i never understand anything at all, i know it is yours, but what are you trying to write down, and why you make it as you only can understand or your people? so if i want to duplicate your method and i saw your notes to follow i may just give up and don't use your method, not talking about copywriting or something of that, but to follow a successful method for example, so help me to understand your notes more.

Film & E.I.
Ktm 100+1 ... ... that means for me Kodak Tmax 100 [135] | 200

Date & Time
19.5.16.10.34 ... that means for me 19.05.2016 | 10:34

Box (Camera, if any) & Lens [mm] (if any)
YFX Y1.4 ... ... that means for me Yashica FX.3 | Yashica 50 mm 1.4

Number (of photo) & E.V. [f/x (if any) & t/x]
8 12f1.4 ... ... that means 08/36 | 12 [f/1.4 . 1/2000]

Subject & extra notes
Clothe peg | TR RC YF ... ... stands for Tripod . Remote Cable . Yellow filter, etc

Process & Notes
Neg 68F | Tmax Pro Dev 6 1/2 . Tmax Pro Fix 3 1/4 . Ilfotol | Drop, Pre-wash, stock(x2) ... etc

"I lost my head"

Writing down the details

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