Wow -- any eye experts out there?

St. Clair Beach Solitude

D
St. Clair Beach Solitude

  • 6
  • 2
  • 47
Reach for the sky

H
Reach for the sky

  • 3
  • 4
  • 72
Agawa Canyon

A
Agawa Canyon

  • 3
  • 2
  • 123
Frank Dean,  Blacksmith

A
Frank Dean, Blacksmith

  • 13
  • 8
  • 317

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,867
Messages
2,782,220
Members
99,735
Latest member
tstroh
Recent bookmarks
0

DrPablo

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
814
Location
North Caroli
Format
Multi Format
Let me just first preface this with the understanding that we get a fairly limited exposure to the eye in medical school. Sure, we learn its embryogenesis and anatomy and the physiology of vision and the pathogenesis / treatment of common eye problems. But opthalmology is a very specialized field and most of what they learn happens during their residency and not medical school. So I have a decent understanding of eye physiology, and the diseases that I'm likely to run across in my specialty, but I'm no expert in it.

Now, I accompanied my wife to an opthalmologist's appointment last year. We got to talking about photography a little, and he told me that the human eye is not apochromatic, i.e. the lens does not focus all wavelengths of light on the same point. He didn't go into much more detail, but he explained that you can exploit that diagnostically by checking acuity for different wavelengths of light.

Anyway, I shelved this information until today when I was in my darkroom doing some lith printing. I'm mildly nearsighted, and I noticed today that things in the darkroom (under the safelight) were looking very blurry to me -- so out of curiosity I took off my glasses and to my surprise it got much sharper. Sometimes very close objects are blurrier with my glasses, like when I'm reading in bed, so I tested it again from around 5 feet away, and it was still true -- far sharper without my glasses.

But when I was able to turn the regular light back on, the opposite effect happened. In other words, things from 2, 3, 5 feet were much blurrier without my glasses and much sharper with.

Goes to show that my refractive error is much worse for shorter wavelengths than deep red -- and while my prescription helps me overall, it is far worse under deep red light. It certainly means that I'll do better in the darkroom without glasses on. I just wonder what it means if I'm driving at night in a place that has deep orange streetlights.
 

Roger Hicks

Member
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
4,895
Location
Northern Aqu
Format
35mm RF
A very idle thought: spectacles aren't apochromatic either and perhaps it might be possible to correct for deep red with a different pair of glasses -- which wouldn't be as good under white light.

Cheers,

R.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
This is an intriguing phenomenon, I never thought about.
I would like to modify Roger’s reply in that way that someone who needs eyesight correction for long distances should use for night time glasses which are calculated for ones scoptic vision (with a peak a 520nm) as this would be of more general use.
With that sodium light in mind, the question would be to correct for that very light or ones peak sensitivy. As that light is very narrowbanded, correcting for that light would be more effective.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,369
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
When I have been fitted with glasses or contacts, one of the test include letters in a bar. Half the bar is red and half the bar is green. The opthalmologists asks, "In which half are the letters clearer?"

Does this add any useful information to this thread?

Steve
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,082
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
Thisis why I have always assumed that yellow sunglasses make the world look a little sharper...since the blue end of the spectrum is the end that tends to mis-focus (relative to the other colors) thru our eyes -- and our lenses.

I wanted a pair of nuetral sunglasses, but they ended up being slightly blue-grey. Nothing ever seem very sharp through them.
 

rorye

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Messages
1,327
Location
San Francisco
Format
8x10 Format
I can't see much without my glasses, but when I'm swimming everything is tack sharp underwater. Mind you I haven't tried underwater with my glasses on. Hmm...
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,082
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
I can't see much without my glasses, but when I'm swimming everything is tack sharp underwater. Mind you I haven't tried underwater with my glasses on. Hmm...

Doesn't work for me. I think the water on both sides of my glasses sort of neutralizes the job they are suppose to do. But then I got a prescription diving mask! What a wonderful experience! Opened up a whole new world!

Vaughn
 

patrickjames

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
742
Format
Multi Format
I can't see much without my glasses, but when I'm swimming everything is tack sharp underwater. Mind you I haven't tried underwater with my glasses on. Hmm...


I can't see without my glasses either, but it is worse underwater!

This is an interesting thread.

Patrick
 

David Brown

Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
4,049
Location
Earth
Format
Multi Format
...since the blue end of the spectrum is the end that tends to mis-focus (relative to the other colors) thru our eyes --

This is my experience, too. My glasses Rx is not that strong, and I see fine. But blue lighted signs in particular, and especially at night, are simply out of focus.
 

Kilgallb

Subscriber
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
813
Location
Calgary AB C
Format
4x5 Format
I wear glasses for long distance vision. When I focus the enlarger I have to take the glasses off. I also find I simply cannot focus with a magenta VC filter in place. Everything is fuzzy. I can focus with a yellow filter in place however. I notice that green lights are sharp and ered lights are a little defocused. Hmm, time for a new set of specs.

Yes, I know I should focus with a Neutral filter.
 
OP
OP
DrPablo

DrPablo

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
814
Location
North Caroli
Format
Multi Format
I'm going to try an experiment later. It would be easiest with 3D glasses, but sadly the 60s are over. I'm going to take off my glasses and compare my acuity through a red #29, a blue #47, a yellow #8, and a green #58.

I'll report back.
 

greybeard

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2005
Messages
366
Location
Northern Cal
Format
Large Format
The variation in focal length of the eye, across the visual spectrum, is pretty large. Some years ago I was involved in an activity that led me to look this up, and if memory serves, there is about 0.75mm difference between deep blue and dark red (out of a total focal length of some 20 mm). Here in California, it is not uncommon to see large beds of ice plant with brilliant magenta blossoms, all open at once---and they are actually annoying to look at, because the eye tries to focus on the blossoms (at one focal length) and the surrounding scenery (at another) at the same time.

I, for one, will be interested in the results of your experiment, because I have always found that looking through a #47 filter produces eyestrain to the point of nausea, but the other colors don't have this effect. Peak sensitivity of the eye is somewhere in the greenish-yellow, so possibly we evolved in conditions where vision under blue light just wasn't that important.
 

JBrunner

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
7,429
Location
PNdub
Format
Medium Format
This helps explain some of my decisions in other places lit by red lights......
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,082
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
I'm going to try an experiment later. It would be easiest with 3D glasses, but sadly the 60s are over. I'm going to take off my glasses and compare my acuity through a red #29, a blue #47, a yellow #8, and a green #58.

I'll report back.

To throw in another weird optical effect...If I look at some printed material in which there is red lettering on a white or black background, the red letters seem to be 3D...to stand up off the page. Closing one eye eliminates this effect.

I suspect that my two eyes do not register color in the same way -- and the difference acts like a stereo viewer for those 3D photos of old. Equally plausible is that I'm nuts.

Vaughn
 
OP
OP
DrPablo

DrPablo

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
814
Location
North Caroli
Format
Multi Format
I suspect that my two eyes do not register color in the same way -- and the difference acts like a stereo viewer for those 3D photos of old. Equally plausible is that I'm nuts.

Maybe you have one human eye and one dog eye.
 

Kopite64

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
23
Location
Daventry Nor
Format
Medium Format
My two pence worth!

Really interesting thread.

I used to do a lot of early morning driving followed by full day's work then long drive home at dusk. (no more thankfully, now a full-time desk jockey:smile: )

However I would have been lost without my yellow tinted driving glasses, plain lenses as my eyes are about the best bit of me. They made everything much clearer especially the motorway lights at night, stopped the banging headaches the moment I bought them.
 

Craig

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
2,331
Location
Calgary
Format
Multi Format
However I would have been lost without my yellow tinted driving glasses, plain lenses as my eyes are about the best bit of me. They made everything much clearer especially the motorway lights at night

The eye is more senesitive to the yellow end of the spectrum, rather than blue, so the yellow glasses at night will make things appear brighter. This reduces eye strain because thigns are easier to see.
 

srs5694

Member
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
2,718
Location
Woonsocket,
Format
35mm
FWIW, Pat Gainer, who regularly participates here, wrote a piece entitled "Hazards of the Grain Focuser" for the Jan/Feb 1997 issue of Photo Techniques magazine. In it he tested various techniques of grain focuser use, and particularly use of filters with a grain focuser. He found that using white or green light produced the best results; focusing with blue, magenta, or red light produced poorer focus. I did a few tests myself -- not as elaborate as Gainer's, but enough to at least partially confirm his results. Therefore, when I focus my Philips PCS130 enlarger with PCS150 light source (which uses three-color [RGB] additive light), I use the green channel exclusively. If I were using a more conventional enlarger, I'd probably use unfiltered (white) light.
 

Sparky

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
2,096
Location
Los Angeles
Format
Multi Format
WOW. Okay- this thread is a total revelation for me! I don't know if anyone else has ever had this - but 'old school' type LED (segmented bar letter) displays have always seemed to float IN FRONT of where one would ASSUME they would be... it's like the glowing letters or numbers are somehow projected - just about a mm in front of the panel on which they reside. I wonder if this has everything to do with it..?
 

jford

Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
93
Location
Melbourne, A
Format
8x10 Format
The eye is more senesitive to the yellow end of the spectrum, rather than blue, so the yellow glasses at night will make things appear brighter. This reduces eye strain because thigns are easier to see.

Yellow is in the middle of the spectrum, not at the end. The eye's peak response is around 555 nanometres (in photopic- daytime- vision), which is a greeny yellow. It drops off remarkably to the blue and red ends of the spectrum. The peak response changes in scotopic vision, ie low light conditions. The change in the darkroom could also be due to the change from using cones to rods, ie from photopic to scotopic vision. I believe the peak response at night is around 505nm despite the fact that rods don't detect colour. The yellow glasses at night may be just filtering out noise, so to speak.

John.
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,082
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
Sparky -- cover one eye...the letters should return to the plane of the display if it is some sort of stereo effect.

John, I agree. Filters subtract light thru absorbtion...they would not brighten up anything. If they are anything like yellow filters with film, yellow glasses would cut the total light reaching the eye by about 50%. However, the increased sharpness due to less mis-focused blue light and perhaps the psychological effect of the yellow might give one a sense of increased brightness.

Vaughn
 
OP
OP
DrPablo

DrPablo

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
814
Location
North Caroli
Format
Multi Format
And you might accomodate the difference in brightness by dilating the pupils more -- so the effective light entry would be unchanged.
 

Vaughn

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
10,082
Location
Humboldt Co.
Format
Large Format
And you might accomodate the difference in brightness by dilating the pupils more -- so the effective light entry would be unchanged.

Excellent point, Doc! That is why I do not look at a print immeadiately after turning on the lights in the darkroom...I give my pupils a chance to normalize to the new light level first (just a few seconds). That first impression is important (to me, anyway) and seeing a print with dilated pupils throws me off.

Vaughn
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom