Would you buy the new Fuji Range Finder?

Nick Zentena · Feb 4, 2008

It's nice to worry about Fuji's costs but unless it's sold direct you'll have at least a dealer mark up maybe a distributor to. Then you've got post sales services. Oh don't forget every camera made doesn't get sold. Some fall off the truck. Others never work. Others sit in a dusty corner.

Nigel · Feb 4, 2008

keithwms said:
It'd be cool if there were some sort of camera/film package deal that Fuji could construct. Easy to arrange: they give you a 20% discount on Fuji film for one year after the purchase of the camera; or they simply charge you $1500 upfront and that includes $500 worth of film. I think this is precisely what cameramakers should be doing- helping us help them.

If Fuji offered some sort of bundle, you would quickly see the parts unbundled on EBay. Those who want the camera for other films would sell the unwanted film. Those that wanted only the film would sell the unwanted camera. Might as well sell the two items unbundled in the first place.

keithwms · Feb 4, 2008

Well, yeah, but Fuji is clever: they had a kind of underhanded way to encourage people to use Fuji films with their AF RFs like the GA645Zi. As I recall, they put a grab hole in the end of the 120 leader and a corresponding grabber on the uptake spool. Truth be told, you didn't *have* to use Fuji film in the those cameras because of this, but those of us who tried other films quickly realized that Fuji was simply trying to argue for more "optimal" results with their films. The Fuji films were supposed to wind a little bit more tightly than non-Fuji films resulting in better flatness. I have no evidence that this flatness argument held true, I always got good results regardless, but nevertheless it was clear to me that installing Fuji films properly was easier because of this simple mechanism!!! (meanwhile contax overengineered, IMHO, a very different solution)

So, bundle or no bundle, Fuji could do some simple things to encourage more use of their film products via this camera.

Larry.Manuel · Feb 4, 2008

Fuji's prototype looks great.

The never-ending debate [here] of Fuji's finances, marketing plans, et al, seem to me to be so much tilting at windmills. It [likely] doesn't matter to a corporation if an occasional product, on it's own, fails to pay its way. It is possible some products, due to quirks in the make-up of the human mind, boost sales of other things, making a net gain for the company.

It is a very interesting camera. I'm not a fan of electrical shutters, and will soon be in possession of three Rollei TLRs, all overhauled with new screens by Harry Fleenor. Thus, I have no real "need" for the Fuji. However, it interests me greatly, and I'd consider buying it to make a statement in favour of such products.

Imagine if Eric Clapton [and others] puts aside his M8 and goes about with a GF670?

I now know it costs about $1,000 for a fully overhauled Rolleicord or garden-variety Rolleiflex 3.5, with a Maxwell screen. I doubt the Fuji could sell for less. And, I doubt it would be as good, optically and mechanically as a 50-yr-old Rollei TLR that has had a reasonable life and recent overhaul. Perhaps that is damning a GF670 with faint praise, yet I mean to offer my enthusiastic endorsement.

In the same vein, I'm very keen on the new "low-cost" [quotation marks for obvious reasons] Leica lenses, which cost about $1,500 each, and I'd expect a good, simple, long-lasting, MF camera to cost $3,000. One fear I have is that a GF670, if produced, will come and be gone within 5 years, making overhauls unlikely in ten years. My M3 delights me in its longevity and repairability.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 4, 2008

Somehow, I can't see this product selling above 1000$. It's a fixed-lens rangefinder camera that's not meant to be a rugged shooter like the Fuji Texas Leicas, it's got what appears to be a decent to good lens, probably a kind of Tessar, will use some plastics/polycarbonates if I'm right about the way the folding door looks like, and has metering that is not TTL.

A Bessa RF body allows for interchangeable lenses, TTL metering, selectable framelines, lever advance, and it retails for about 600$ at CameraQuest. Normal lens will set you back an extra 300$. That fixed lens on the Fuji is not worth 300$. And the MF folders market is made of enthusiasts for cheap solid gear, not Leicaphiles.

Between 300$ and 700$, they can reap most of the Cosina-philes, who already know how good those products can be, and who might have considered buying a second Bessa, but would like to try MF instead.

JBrunner · Feb 4, 2008

mhv said:
Between 300$ and 700$, they can reap most of the Cosina-philes, who already know how good those products can be, and who might have considered buying a second Bessa, but would like to try MF instead.

That's exactly what I was thinking... in my mind that is the perfect price point, but the lower the better. If they do bring it in for that $300 dollar range, it will fly out the door. Allot of people are hungry for something like this. Think of all those holga kids who want to take a little more control...

copake_ham · Feb 4, 2008

JBrunner said:
That's exactly what I was thinking... in my mind that is the perfect price point, but the lower the better. If they do bring it in for that $300 dollar range, it will fly out the door. Allot of people are hungry for something like this. Think of all those holga kids who want to take a little more control...

I think under $1000 is key - and preferably down to that $700 price point.

But much lower and I fear the camera quality would become "iffy". Granted the Holga crowd may want to "step up" - but I think they should have a higher hurdle than what a $300 "real" camera would entail.

Remember, the original CV Bessa R(?) was around that price (maybe a bit lower) and had no rangefinder etc. That was over five years ago - hard to see how you could get a decent quality-made camera for that kind of price today.

JBrunner · Feb 4, 2008

My wishes and myvthoughts aren't in agreement. My logical mind expects somewhere in the middle of six and seven hundred.

david b · Feb 4, 2008

I really don't think they will release a camera for under $1000.

If they do, they will turn the film world upside down, in a very positive way.

My gut says $1500.

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 4, 2008

The nice vintage folders weren't cheap in their day. I think someone turned up a vintage ad for a Bessa II with Heliar a while back, and it would have been well over $1000 in inflation adjusted dollars.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Feb 4, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
The nice vintage folders weren't cheap in their day. I think someone turned up a vintage ad for a Bessa II with Heliar a while back, and it would have been well over $1000 in inflation adjusted dollars.

I guess it really depends where Fuji wants to position their camera. I don't disagree with the fact that the Bessa II was a serious and expensive item back in the days, but back in the days a coupled rangefinder was also a luxury! Tooling must have been expensive, assembly was probably done in part by hand, etc.

I think 1000$ in today's dollar is a psychological limit. If you go above that, you are entering the territory of professional cameras like the Mamiyas or the Hasselblad, at least on the used market. A prosumer DSLR with kit lens is cheaper than 1000$ !

A used Mamiya 6, which is almost as pocketable as a 35mm classic SLR sells for less than $1,500. And when I see a basic Hasselblad 500 C/M kit for 750$ at KEH, I would never even consider the Fuji RF as a primary camera, only as a secondary, pocketable camera.

If they break the 1k$ limit, the Fuji will be immediately compared to the pro offerings, and its limitations (esp. the non-interchangeable lens) will look really bad to the potential buyers.

JBrunner · Feb 4, 2008

I believe this camera is designed to be a film enthusiast camera. If Fuji had wanted to design a "professional" camera, they would have done so, and it would bear little resemblance to the prototype they are showing.
That's why I believe the price point will be around $6-700. Everything I see in it says simple, and cost effective.

david b · Feb 4, 2008

Jason, I sure hope you are right.

My wife was watching me type about the $1500 and asked ... "Is there something I should know?"

Nope.

Jersey Vic · Feb 4, 2008

JBrunner · Feb 4, 2008

Nope, uh-uh.

jd callow · Feb 4, 2008

When ever I surf camera's my wife's immediate response is "What are you doing?"

Jersey Vic · Feb 4, 2008

jd callow said:
When ever I surf camera's my wife's immediate response is "What are you doing?"

"Cameras are cheap. The time we give to them is priceless".

Try that one.

Matus Kalisky · Feb 5, 2008

I hope they will bring it. I expect the price between $1000 - $1500. I also hope they will not forget that exchange rate between euro and $ is 1:1.4 and not inversed (as belived by e.g. - Pentax - look at the digital spotmeter) so that the camera costs LESS than 1500 euro here in EU.

sanking · Feb 5, 2008

slnce-z-gsi said:
I hope they will bring it. I expect the price between $1000 - $1500. I also hope they will not forget that exchange rate between euro and $ is 1:1.4 and not inversed (as belived by e.g. - Pentax - look at the digital spotmeter) so that the camera costs LESS than 1500 euro here in EU.

Based on the new price of the discontinued Fuji GW/GWS III 67 and 69 cameras I would expect a price of $1500-$2000 for a modern 6X7 folder. Production costs for a folding folder should be at least as great as for the hard body GW/GWS series, and perhaps greater. I think we should expect more features (meter for example), and perhaps auto-exposure, in the new folder. I am thinking there must also be auto-wind in the new folder, otherwise why no lever?

This folding camera in 67 format should be of similar quality to the Plaubel Makina, and more technically advance, so think similar price or more.

Sandy King

Andy K · Feb 5, 2008

Sandy, the camera has manual advance, that's what the second knurled knob is for on the top of the camera. (on the left if the camera is viewed from the front)

pauliej · Feb 5, 2008

How much did the Fuji GA645 folder cost when new, does anyone remember? I would think a similar 6x7 would cost more, as optics and other stuff is scaled up somewhat. Also, are you folks talking manuf. list price or "street" price? Just wondering.

Paul

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 5, 2008

pauliej said:
How much did the Fuji GA645 folder cost when new, does anyone remember? I would think a similar 6x7 would cost more, as optics and other stuff is scaled up somewhat. Also, are you folks talking manuf. list price or "street" price? Just wondering.

Paul

My Fuji GS645 folder cost me about $500.00 (at B and H Photo). It still works great. I paid a lot more than that for my Fuji 645i.

Buster6X6 · Feb 5, 2008

Very nice camera. I would by one. It would be nice to have 6X9 with different (3) masks for 4.5x6;6x6 and 6x7 maybe two choices of lenses 80 and 100 mm.

Greg

sanking · Feb 5, 2008

Andy K said:
Sandy, the camera has manual advance, that's what the second knurled knob is for on the top of the camera. (on the left if the camera is viewed from the front)

It is hard to understand why they would make a camera where the film must be advanced with a knurled knob. That would suggest a real retro design, with perhaps a lot of simplicity throughout. If that is the case, my thinking on price cold well be off because a simple design could probably be produced for a street price of around $1k.

Sandy King

gr82bart · Feb 5, 2008

Hmmm ... at the time of my post we have 156 'pre-orders' at $1000 each. Let's see if we walk the talk ....

Regards, Art (Cynical and skeptical bastard)

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