Would like to join the 67 club. Pentax 6x7 or Mamiya RZ67?

paul ron

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some food for thought...

what difference will 6x7 vs 6x4.5 make when printing 8x10 11x14 16x20s?... almost nothing!

i love my 4x5 lf but its a royal pita to set up a shot that cant be on the move. so landscapes n stills are your main subjects. yeah its lighter but add in the film holders n lenses... its alot of stuff to carry.

l love my rb... or the bronica s series... but the weight, although, not as much a problem as realestate in my back pack, its a great camera even hand held. the beast is built like a sherman tank. i use mine with a prism because the other viewfinders just arent bright and reversed n flipped upsidedown.... i just cant be bothered with that. so i just put up with the weight of the prism. the bronica is a bit more manageable but still a large canera in hand.

other mf that really are a pleasure to use are 645s. they come in several flavors. the folders are pocket cameras and take wonderful pictures and very light as well as easy to use.

tlrs... come in several flavors weighing in from a ton, mamiya c330 class are great with interchangable lenses. to lighter rolies n yashica tlrs. all great cameras plus readily available in tip top shape. rangefinders work nicely too.

then my favorite, bronica etrs. its the lady of cameras in 645. great lenses, easy to hand hold even with a prism, its still very elegant in the hand and lenses are beautiful. has lots of extras from auto winder, speed grip, several types of prisms including ae prisms. changeable backs... and a nice assortment of lenses.

no matter which camera you use... its still the person behind the camera that makes all the difference. in other words... pick something that fits your preferences. try a few cameras before committing to just one.

have you also considered 6x6?... hassies are fun n lots of options in 6x6 as well.
 

dave olson

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When I was working as a professional, years ago, I used a Pentax 6x4.5n and a Pentax 6x7. Even in retirement, I will still reach for either the 6x7 or 6x4.5n. The 6x7 is a wonderful format, Pentax has long lenses that are affordable in the secondary market. The giant 35mm is heavy; adding a lens makes it even heavier. Can you hold the 6x7 in your hands and make very acceptable prints, yes, if you use the shorter lenses and load ASA 400 or better film. Obviously, any print made from a 6x7 negative or transparency should be superb. The 6x4.5 is a versatile format and will provide excellent enlargements.
 

Arthurwg

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Alex Benjamin said:
Dorothea Lange carrying her Graflex Super D with chimney finder. She's even tougher than Annie.

Click to expand...
As I remember, the RB is heavier than the Super D, but I was younger when I was using the SD. Did you say how old you are? The RB really is heavy.
 
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Model71

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Andrew O'Neill said:
I prefer the RB over the RZed. No batteries required.
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Aside from batteries, I think the RB stands for rotating back, which can be very useful if that matters for the type of subject/shooting style.

I have no idea if the RZ also has a rotating back accessory.
 

MattKing

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Model71 said:
I have no idea if the RZ also has a rotating back accessory.
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Absolutely.
And you can use almost all of the RB lenses on the RZ.
The reverse does not apply.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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AI says:
In the Mamiya RZ67 camera, "RZ" stands for "Revolving Back, Zoom". The "Revolving Back" aspect refers to the rotating film back, allowing for easy switching between horizontal and vertical orientations. The "Zoom" part is less literal, but broadly refers to the system's versatility and the ability to use a variety of lenses and accessories, similar to the concept of a zoom lens.
 

Alexander6x6

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It would be interesting to prove this because the RZ system is just as versatile as the RB system in terms of lenses and accessories.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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Alexander6x6 said:
It would be interesting to prove this because the RZ system is just as versatile as the RB system in terms of lenses and accessories.
Click to expand...

Don't you mean the RB system is just as versatile?
 

Alexander6x6

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Andrew O'Neill said:
Don't you mean the RB system is just as versatile?
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I mean that both system are equal excepting mechanical shutter speed control of RB system.

Personally I am a big fan of RB / RZ lenses: the best 3rd party lenses (together with Hasselblad Carl Zeiss) I ever used on digital MF sensors (GFX and 907x).
 

F4U

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The thread title seems to be from a person wanting to get int 6x7. Only the 2 choices are named, both SLR's. At short distances SLR's are the only practical option. Rangefinder cameras are incapable of doing that job. If scenic work is the main interest, or groups of people, then a Rapid Omega with the standard 90mm lens would be a terrific choice. Boring, yes. But never disappointing or fiddly to work with.
 

Alexander6x6

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Andrew O'Neill said:
I've only ever used the RB (bought it brand spanking new back in '93). Love the optics, even the 100-200 zoom!
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The only zoom 100-200 looks like an average analog lens, the others are extremely good on digital MF. You may find the results here, just type "ULD 50" in the "search" field.
 

halfaman

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I tried Koni Rapid Omega with the 90 mm this past weekend borrowed from a friend and I will not repeit the experience. It is compact in size but weights a ton and handling was very uncomfortable (small grip, ankward shutter buttom position). I wanted to leave the camera just after 10 minutes in my hands. To complete the experience, aperture was stucked at f/22 and most of the pictures were blank. Not for me.
 

John Wiegerink

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I used a Koni-Omega for weddings before I got a Hasselblad. I wouldn't have been able to buy the Hasselblad if the Koni-Omega hadn't made me enough money to afford the 'blad. There is nothing wrong with a Koni-Omega at all, it's just different. Obviously different from what you are used to.
 

abruzzi

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For SLRs there are 3 systems I'm aware of (four if you count the RZ as a diferent system than the RB.) The other two are the Pentax 67 and the Bronica GS-1. I have the latter two and like them both, but I prefer the GS-1 mostly because I prefer the ergonomics with the WLF and such. Outside SLRs there are a lot of rangefinder options, from the way too expensive Mamiya 7 to the fairly low budget of something like a Horseman VH-R. The big ('texas leica') Fujis including the early interchangable lens to the later fixed lens setups are somewhere in the middle price-wise. Finally, and very far from what the OP is probably looking for are 6x7 graflock/international backs mounted on a 2x3 or 4x5 view camera.
 

DREW WILEY

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Fuji RF's ("Texas Leicas"), are quite easy to handhold, but all the later ones have a single fixed lens, and no internal metering. I own a couple 6x9's; but they were also made in 6X6, 6X7, and 6X8. The typical 90/3.5 lens is very crisp, but with nice bokeh.

I also own the Pentax 67 system, which can be handheld at higher shutter speeds with shorter focal length lenses (up to the excellent 105/2.4 "normal"). But for most applications, you need a tripod. But for any kind of serious MF work, I'd strongly recommend learning how to use a separate meter. The averaging TTL prism meter of the P67 is competent; but don't expect any fancy programming. And keep in mind that the metering is prism dependent. You don't get that with either the chimney or folding finders, which are hell to use handheld anyway, pretty much impossible in vertical orientation.

P67 "fast" lenses include the 105/2.4 and 165/2.8, both popular with portrait photographers, with nice bokeh. There is also a fast 2.8 version of the 75, coveted by street photographers, but now generally more than ten times the price of the slower but optically excellent 75/4.5. Where the P67 system really excels is in their superb later telephoto lenses.
 
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alentine

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If you can first open a repair shop for the "winding crank" of Pentax 6x7/67/67ii, and not to forget to provide in your shop lots of silver oxide and lithium batteries, then
the kit of camera plus 55-100mm & 90-180mm lenses, is really irresistible. Pentax lenses are marvelous.
Otherwise, the fully mechanical Mamiya RB with a decent lens and then build your kit with time, is the correct option for now, and will maintain to be so with time.
Ergonomics and versatility goes with Pentax I guess.
Reliability and availability goes with Mamiya I guess.
My 1 1/2 cent !
 

Hassasin

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If you like the thrill of holding a bomb about to explode in your hand, and experience the explosion upon shutter release, go with P67 (otherwise great camera with great lenses).

If you care to experience the hard-to-believe super-soft release, go with RB67 (I assume RZ67 has it similar).

Ergonomics of P67 are only assumptions until you hold one, it's a beast like any other 6x7 SLR. And the way it shakes is an experience in its own right. Shaken-not-stirred applies.

RB67 is hardly a handheld option, even though it can be done, but a world apart when set on a tripod as 6x7 would ask for to start with.

The benefit of 6x7, outside of claiming 67 club membership, is not what it looks like on paper, unless very large prints are the final goal, and viewed from a wrong distance.

The downside is kit size and weight. It's not far from a LInhof Technika 6x9 where you get some movements where you need it, and still can handhold and shoot 6x9 with no more awkwardness than with RB67, maybe even less so. And of course you get the rotating back too.

For quick MF shooter I'd take 645 almost every time as it still is a much larger negative from 35, and difference in print leaves no doubts. P645 would run ahead of a Bronica, unless switching film types mid roll is a consideration and interchangeable backs are important (which is no option with P67 anyways).

Square is not for everyone, but 6x6 has its own big benefits.
 

choiliefan

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With the P67, it's very easy to frame your shot handheld and flick the mirror up button with your third finger and trip the shutter. Really not a big deal at all. Adapt to what you have.
 

DREW WILEY

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Sounds about as logical as deer hunting blindfolded.

With the P67 it is advantageous to use mirror lock-up only at speeds lower than 1/60th. But it's pretty darn hard to get precise shots with that camera at even 1/60th handheld. When you're around 1/250th your odds are way better. It's a great aerial camera, and lots of handheld fashion work has been done with it using strobe. They even once made an underwater housing for it.

I would find 645 inadequate for the level of quality I expect in a 16X20 print. I prefer 6x9, which has twice the surface area; but even 6X7 is a distinct improvement. All of that is relative to your own expectations, of course.
 

Hassasin

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Skycreeper said:
Hi, I miss something to scratch my 67 itch.
And a normal lens with real big aperture.
I got the pentax 645n and the 75 is 2.8 only
Click to expand...

So do you mean 105/2.4 is larger aperture ? And don't be all sold on what public domain tells you about the 105, check out the 90, but it's only 2.8.

Sarcasm aside. I understand the "67 itch", have done it many times over myself, but you are looking at monster cameras by comparison to P645. And the RZ67 with chimney ? Think of a toaster oven. Can be handheld and if mirror landing is same as on RB67, it's a pleasure to flick the shutter. Focusing with bellows is also quite smooth, but at first awkward a little, although I'd say it gets better and becomes more natural than turning lens ring, especially if you add tires to the knobs, which improves focus precision.

BTW, P67 has newer metering finder with blue cells, unlike original CDS.
 
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abruzzi

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6x6 is basically a 12 shot per roll 6x4.5 that you crop later. I dislike square photos, so thats how I treat it. It does have the advantage that you can shoot both landscape and portrait orientation 6x4.5 easily with a waist level finder.
 

Hassasin

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abruzzi said:
6x6 is basically a 12 shot per roll 6x4.5 that you crop later. I dislike square photos, so thats how I treat it. It does have the advantage that you can shoot both landscape and portrait orientation 6x4.5 easily with a waist level finder.
Click to expand...

Use 6x6 to frame, compose, and stick with square in the end. It has its own appeal. But not for everyone, nor for every occasion.
 

halfaman

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I find Pentax 67II a very good camera for handheld photography if you are in a normal shape. It was my photographic companion around the world for 11 wonderful years with hundreds of rolls shot, for me it was as agile in use as my Nikon FM2. I can carry a Pentax 67II (or my current Bronica GS-1) the whole day, and several days in a row, something that was impossible with my RZ67 in equal conditions (with L-grip and AE prism). I tried it and I could stand 3-4 hours with the Mamiya before the pain started, a pitty because I loved RZ67 lenses and some of the body features (back rotation).

It was also one of the last film cameras that Pentax serviced (at least until 2015), and I sent it once to fix major breakdown with the film detection. I stopped using it after another breakwon a couple of years ago and realizing that it can't serviced anymore. Pentax discontinnued the maintenance and its electronic nature makes extremely difficult for an independent shop to do any proper service (needs a Pentax calibration software nobody has).

As I mentioned here several times, the big noise after shutter release is due to the mirror return and it doesn't affect the shot. Omiting the mirror return, the Pentax 67II shutter operation has nothing to envy to the RB67/RZ67 or the Bronica GS-1. I used it several times at 1/60 with no problems, and occasionaly as low as as 1/30th with some tack sharp results. Like many other cameras, Pentax 67II shake is more on the photographer hands when handheld, on tripods is related with its heavy weigth compared to many tripods and the resulting high center of gravity. If you want a loud shutter operation for any reason, you can try a Zenzaburo Bronica (S, S2, EC, etc.). Boy, that's loud! A friend of mine had an EC-TL and he could scared me shooting from 10 meters away.

Formats are a matter of taste. Good or bad, better or worse, is on the eye of the photographer. I recommned to try all MF to find what resonates inside you particularly. It is not so much about size, but frame proportions and overall aspect (here frame size matters). In my case, if you want to make me sad person, give me any 645 camera. I don't know why, but it doesn't work with my photography (I can love a picture made by other). On the other hand, 6x7 is how I want my pictures to be.
 
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