Worst case scenario...

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

Hey APUG,

I recently stumbled into a local deal on an entire camera collection from a retired professional. I'll spare most of the details, but his collection contains 3 Leicas, one of which is an M3, which is ultimately what I'm after in life. I have yet to get my hands on the gear, but I wonder, what is the worst case scenario is he said this M3 is "not working"? How expensive could a repair be at the higher end? I will of course learn more in person, but I was trying to gage how un-usable this could be, hypothetically. The condition looks great, as do the other two Leicas, but I can tell they have collected some dust. This is all priced such that I could probably sell everything in the collection and easily make my money back, but I wonder if fixing this M3 will be a worthwhile endeavor.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I wonder what I can look for in inspecting these, other than basic operation. Thank you for any advice.

bdial · Jan 24, 2017

Youxin Ye has sample prices on his web site http://www.yyecamera.com. Sherry Krauter doesn't but you could call or email to get an idea. Not sure about DAG.
As a worst case scenario, I've seen perfect looking cameras that had gotten a seawater bath and were only useful for decoration.
As for whether it's worth it, it likely is, any M3 you buy that doesn't have a known history probably needs a servicing for xxx $'s regardless of whether it comes to you working or not. The only variable might be the timing of that servicing.

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

bdial said:
Youxin Ye has sample prices on his web site http://www.yyecamera.com. Sherry Krauter doesn't but you could call or email to get an idea. Not sure about DAG.
As a worst case scenario, I've seen perfect looking cameras that had gotten a seawater bath and were only useful for decoration.
As for whether it's worth it, it likely is, any M3 you buy that doesn't have a known history probably needs a servicing for xxx $'s regardless of whether it comes to you working or not. The only variable might be the timing of that servicing.

This is super helpful, thank you! I am in New England, as is Youxin Ye, so I feel much better about sending in a couple hours away, maybe even hand delivering it.

bdial · Jan 24, 2017

You're welcome.
I've heard that Youxin is very accomodating for people who want to hand-deliver their cameras. Sherry is over in New York, so maybe not as far for you as Youxin.

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

I got more information from the seller. He said the Leicas have been sitting in a glass case for years and years. He took them to a trusted local repair shop and they said the M3 needs at least 300 dollars in repair. There is something with the rangefinder, he was vague about the details and clearly doesn't know Leicas or old cameras in general. He said the Leica iii needs a less expensive repair, lens is sticking. The R3 has worked for him in the past, doesn't know much about it. All told, this is $700, but includes a Nikon body with a 50 1.4, a Rollei 3.5, and few others. I think I'm taking the chance, but that M3 is going to cost me it sounds like...

Theo Sulphate · Jan 24, 2017

$700 for an M3, a iii, and an R3? Go for it!

Usually with cameras that sit, the shutter will fail at slow speeds. As for the rangefinder being off - that is an unknown expense.

However, a CLA by Youxin or Sherry will then give you a great camera that will last a long time. Even if they were working, they are due for a CLA.

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
$700 for an M3, a iii, and an R3? Go for it!

Usually with cameras that sit, the shutter will fail at slow speeds. As for the rangefinder being off - that is an unknown expense.

However, a CLA by Youxin or Sherry will then give you a great camera that will last a long time. Even if they were working, they are due for a CLA.

Thanks, Theo!

Marcelo Paniagua · Jan 24, 2017

LMNOP said:
I got more information from the seller. He said the Leicas have been sitting in a glass case for years and years. He took them to a trusted local repair shop and they said the M3 needs at least 300 dollars in repair. There is something with the rangefinder, he was vague about the details and clearly doesn't know Leicas or old cameras in general. He said the Leica iii needs a less expensive repair, lens is sticking. The R3 has worked for him in the past, doesn't know much about it. All told, this is $700, but includes a Nikon body with a 50 1.4, a Rollei 3.5, and few others. I think I'm taking the chance, but that M3 is going to cost me it sounds like...

$300.00 is about right for a M3 overhaul so if he quoted that price range it problably isnt that bad. $700 + $300 = $1000. You most likely will get a fully serviced M3 for $1000, which is isnt that bad, with a free III and R3 (about $500 value?) so I say its a nice price.

Good luck with it.

Regards

Marcelo

jscott · Jan 24, 2017

FYI I bought a used M3 and sent it to Youxin. He did wonders with the shutter speeds, etc, but the film counter did not work. I returned it to him a second time and he told me that "these early models had a problem with the film counter". He could not fix it.

So I carry a clicker counter to count my exposures. Highly annoying for an "ultimately what I'm after" camera, to use the poster's words.
This camera is rarely used...

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

jscott said:
FYI I bought a used M3 and sent it to Youxin. He did wonders with the shutter speeds, etc, but the film counter did not work. I returned it to him a second time and he told me that "these early models had a problem with the film counter". He could not fix it.

So I carry a clicker counter to count my exposures. Highly annoying for an "ultimately what I'm after" camera, to use the poster's words.
This camera is rarely used...

Man this sucks. One of my favorite little cameras is a Minolta X370 with a 28mm 2.8, thrift store find, its junky but makes nice images. The film counter never worked for me, and despite that seeming like a small issue, it actually becomes a pain.

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

Marcelo Paniagua said:
$300.00 is about right for a M3 overhaul so if he quoted that price range it problably isnt that bad. $700 + $300 = $1000. You most likely will get a fully serviced M3 for $1000, which is isnt that bad, with a free III and R3 (about $500 value?) so I say its a nice price.

Good luck with it.

Regards

Marcelo

Thanks! This is encouraging. This is a lot to drop on some pile of broken cameras, but I have a feeling this opportunity won't come again, and with the right investment, I could own my first Leica, with an SLR Leica to play with as well!

Marcelo Paniagua · Jan 24, 2017

By the way, Im quoting DAG prices. Also this are the prices for overhaul, which may differ from CLA. May vary, just sharing my experience.

Prices for CLA Leica III would be from $100-200. Again, overhaul(which may include common parts) are normally a bit stepper than CLA (cleaning and adjusting).

Probably someone else could share ther experience with Sherry?

Regads.

Marcelo

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

Got another picture of the m3, it will need some cleaning I imagine...

Theo Sulphate · Jan 24, 2017

How's the condition of the lens?

LMNOP · Jan 24, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
How's the condition of the lens?

I'll find out Friday, in person. I'll have a chance to look everything over in person before pulling the trigger.

Marcelo Paniagua · Jan 24, 2017

bring a flashlight with you to test the lens for haze and scratches.

Regards

Marcelo

Ko.Fe. · Jan 31, 2017

Where are people who restores old cars and trucks. To me it is honorable thing. You could to the same with M3. And 700$ list most likely will cover CLA even if you sell the rest "As Is".

LMNOP · Jan 31, 2017

Thanks for the advice, everyone. This turned out to be an overwhelming deal, but ultimately I can make a good situation out of this if I work at it.

So for $700, I got the following:

Leica M3 50 f2 (completely dead. focusing patch won't move, lens is stuck, film advance stuck, self timer stuck, and the surface on top needs cleaning)
Leica III 50 f2 (body seems to operate flawlessly but I see no rangefinder patch, and the lens is jammed)
Leica R3 with 50 f2 Summicron (meter dead, haven't tried battery but the lens barrel is a bit wiggly)
Nikon F Photomic with 50 1.4 (battery compartment eroded on the metered prism otherwise seems to work perfectly)
Rolleiflex 3.5 (various tiny issues, sort of works overall but needs CLA to work smoothly)

There were a few other cameras and lenses not worth mentioning. One of which is worth about $200, another worth $125. After a lot of eBay work, this whole deal will pay off, but I have a handful of amazing cameras that I can't really use right now. I can't pay to fix the Leica until I've sold all this other stuff I don't need. The R3 would be cool to keep, but honestly this Nikon is a bit more appealing since it is mechanical. Anyway, this guy didn't feel like selling things individually, and I don't think he saw value in them anyway.

locutus · Jan 31, 2017

Leica R3's go for so cheap second hand that they are uneconomical to fix really.

(its also not a body to get very excited about IMHO)

Marcelo Paniagua · Feb 1, 2017

I would give this assestment:

M3: OVERHAUL (no CLA here, too many issues for a simple CLA): About 400 dlls I would say. Because of the cosmetic issue I don't think you would be get more than $600.00 if you ever sell it.
Leica III: Overhaul, about $180-200
Leica R3: I wont really bother with it.
Rolleiflex: About $250.00 CLA.

Rolleiflex could be interesting but it depends on general condition.

IMHO, you arent really get that much of a bargain. Not a ripoff either, just not a bargain, because all the equipment will need time and money before you can sell/use it. If you want to get some equipment to fix and have fun I say go. But if you want to get some equipment and make some profit so CLA and overhaul can be paid by itself, don't.

Regards

Marcelo

Worst case scenario...

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