Worried about 120 film being discontinued?

digital&film · Dec 14, 2015

Personally, I do worry that 120 film will cease to be produced- like 220 has.

I invested in two Hasselblad bodies and lenses, and it will be a shame to not be able to shoot 120.

Just the craziness about the pricing of film backs ($50 for A24 and $250 for A12) makes me wonder.

A Hasselblad Digital back is like $10k.. But that's very steep.

David T T · Dec 14, 2015

Personally, I'm not worried. New film stocks are still being developed, and it seems that analog photography is actually rising in popularity judging from the prices/availability of old gear.

wiltw · Dec 14, 2015

David T T said:
Personally, I'm not worried. New film stocks are still being developed, and it seems that analog photography is actually rising in popularity judging from the prices/availability of old gear.

How many new film stocks, vs. the dozens of emulsions retired by Kodak and Fuji, etc.?!

digital&film · Dec 14, 2015

David T T said:
Personally, I'm not worried. New film stocks are still being developed, and it seems that analog photography is actually rising in popularity judging from the prices/availability of old gear.

What ever happened to www.filmferrania.it ? I would love some B&W in 120 and 220

DWThomas · Dec 14, 2015

The Ilford films (Delta 400 and HP5 Plus) that I received today from B&H have expiration dates in 2018. To me that's far enough ahead to suggest they are still being produced. We can either sit here and electronically wring our hands, or shoot what we have and buy some more. The latter is more likely to keep them available -- yes? :munch:

MattKing · Dec 14, 2015

220 film was always a niche product.

It required specialized equipment to package it - to add the leaders and trailers that only 220 used.

And those 220 leaders and trailers inviolved separate manufacturing - you cannot use 120 backing paper instead.

And not all labs set up for 120 could easily handle the longer 220.

Ilford's machine for adding the leaders and trailers wore out, and would have involved substantial capital investment to repair or replace. And the minimum order requirements for the leaders and trailers also mean substantial cash investment.

All of the specialized costs for 220 were fine when 220 volumes were higher. Now though, those volumes are much lower.

In any event, 120 volumes have always been much, much higher than 220.

All of which is to say that the factors that forced the discontinuation of 220 had little to do with the film itself, but rather the particulars of the specialized format.

The manufacturers could easily still manufacture 220 film. They just cannot easily and economically supply it to you with the appropriate leaders and trailers and package it for your convenient use.

Not so long ago Simon from Harman posted that the cost to them for the 120 backing paper was higher than it cost them to manufacture the film that goes with that backing paper.

digital&film · Dec 14, 2015

DWThomas said:
The Ilford films (Delta 400 and HP5 Plus) that I received today from B&H have expiration dates in 2018. To me that's far enough ahead to suggest they are still being produced. We can either sit here and electronically wring our hands, or shoot what we have and buy some more. The latter is more likely to keep them available -- yes? :munch:

Yes. I agree. The images I get with Portra & Ilford Delta are awesome.

digital&film · Dec 15, 2015

MattKing said:
220 film was always a niche product.

It required specialized equipment to package it - to add the leaders and trailers that only 220 used.

And those 220 leaders and trailers inviolved separate manufacturing - you cannot use 120 backing paper instead.

And not all labs set up for 120 could easily handle the longer 220.r

It's a shame because it's so much more convenient than the added gear of 4 backs of 120 instead of 2 backs of 220!

My studio is the street most of the time, and the backpack gets heavy..

David T T · Dec 15, 2015

wiltw said:
How many new film stocks, vs. the dozens of emulsions retired by Kodak and Fuji, etc.?!

I'm thinking of the development of the new Portra films, which are amazing, the continued development of Tri-X over the years, and the fact that Ferrania is getting the band back together. (they are really doing it, it just has taken longer due to a minor disaster or two delaying things)

Of course more have been discontinued that have been developed. 20 years ago it was all film, and now it's nearly all digital. Naturally, there have been films "pruned" from the rosters, but that's how these companies remain strong in a market that has shrunk to a tiny fraction of what it was.

I say don't worry. Buy film, shoot film, and show others your work. It has a vibe that digital still doesn't have, and will always be loved and used.

digital&film · Dec 15, 2015

David T T said:
I say don't worry. Buy film, shoot film, and show others your work. It has a vibe that digital still doesn't have, and will always be loved and used.

As my own work matures, I'm now appreciating the organic, natural and hyper-realistic image quality of medium format.

rowghani · Dec 15, 2015

I hear you dude, but if i start thinking about 120 slide film not being able I get depressed. As you know much better to just keep buying as much as we can.

Wayne · Dec 15, 2015

I'm not worried. My local store still carries it and they hardly carry anything anymore. I'm shooting it more and more

Xmas · Dec 15, 2015

Adox is recommissioning the former Ilford coater in Switzerland...

But I just bought some expired 120 from the Lomo shop.

NedL · Dec 15, 2015

I just got some Adox CHS 100 II in 120 and am looking forward to trying this new film. I guess if it really looked like there was going to be trouble, I'd hoard like crazy. But for now it's what you said: relax and enjoy it.

summicron1 · Dec 15, 2015

Ilford did a radio show recently in which they made it clear they are doing fine, even expanding some lines. Film is far far from dead.

Keep shooting the stuff. That's how you keep a product alive.

Roger Cole · Dec 15, 2015

MattKing said:
220 film was always a niche product.

It required specialized equipment to package it - to add the leaders and trailers that only 220 used.

And those 220 leaders and trailers inviolved separate manufacturing - you cannot use 120 backing paper instead.

And not all labs set up for 120 could easily handle the longer 220.

Ilford's machine for adding the leaders and trailers wore out, and would have involved substantial capital investment to repair or replace. And the minimum order requirements for the leaders and trailers also mean substantial cash investment.

All of the specialized costs for 220 were fine when 220 volumes were higher. Now though, those volumes are much lower.

In any event, 120 volumes have always been much, much higher than 220.

All of which is to say that the factors that forced the discontinuation of 220 had little to do with the film itself, but rather the particulars of the specialized format.

The manufacturers could easily still manufacture 220 film. They just cannot easily and economically supply it to you with the appropriate leaders and trailers and package it for your convenient use.

Not so long ago Simon from Harman posted that the cost to them for the 120 backing paper was higher than it cost them to manufacture the film that goes with that backing paper.

This.

No, I'm not worried at all about it. As long as film is produced it will be produced in 35mm and 120. I'd worry more about losing my 4x5 sheets than 120, but I'm not worried about that either.

Alan Gales · Dec 15, 2015

I have heard that Kodak will produce film as long as the motion picture industry uses it. A lot of movies are now recorded digitally but there are directors like Quenton Tarantino who insist on film. Film just looks better!

Slixtiesix · Dec 15, 2015

I am not concerned for 120 film in general. I think we will have 120 film around for a long time to come. It may even outlive 35mm. What I´m concerned for is certain types, like Fuji slide films. After the loss of Astia and Velvia 100F and the withdrawal of Provia 400X from all non-asian markets it could happen that Velvia 100 is next. That would be a great loss to me...

Roger Cole · Dec 15, 2015

Provia 400X is discontinued in Asia too now, according to a recent post on this board. I have some in the freezer. Wish I could afford to stock up on more.

I am concerned about the future of E6. It looks to me like a race as to whether Film Ferrania gets their E6 out before Fuji kills off their remaining films. I certainly hope so.

Poisson Du Jour · Dec 15, 2015

The 120 format is still widely used, but a much more gloomy outlook is widely held for E6 emulsions.

I really don't think E6 has a medium- to long-term future with just one manufacturer, with their fingers in several more profitable pies than film that reached its halcyon peak many years ago. Photographers should at this point consider a stepped transition to e.g. C41 or B&W while continuing to enjoy the availability of what limited range of E6 emulsions are available, while they are available. Using — exposing, transparency film is a specialist skill that all photographers should value, moreso those who print exclusively from it. I suspect that the next tranche of discontinuations at Fuji will include more cuts to Velvia in all formats, but most likely in the very, very low volume selling 35mm. Unlike more common and widely avavilable C41 and B&W emulsions, it has become much more of a chore to get E6 processed, not so much at high cost, but travelling about to labs that are still offering E6 processing. For example, I travel 160km return to the best of two labs. Of the two labs, I have a choice of paying either $7.50 a roll of 120, or at the other (unexplained!) extreme, $18.00 (!) for a roll of 120. If push comes to shove, I am at peace with a situation of loss, and will migrate wholly to digital, as I have used that on the side for many years now obtaining much the same results as the time consuming, cost-intensive RA-4 hybridisation process from RVP50 work.

250swb · Dec 15, 2015

You can easily process E6 and C41 in your kitchen, no need to drive anywhere, not a chore at all.

Steve

Roger Cole · Dec 15, 2015

E6 processing for me is as close as my mailbox. I just got back two rolls from Dwayne's this week.

digital&film · Dec 15, 2015

I'm using Ilford lab for my B&W and color, but they don't do 220 processing. For that, I go local.

Ilford seems to be a stronger film maker, Kodak seems shakey and less solid organization - but maybe they will rebound.

pdeeh · Dec 15, 2015

We're all doomed

ChristopherCoy · Dec 15, 2015

digital&film said:
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Just the craziness about the pricing of film backs ($50 for A24 and $250 for A12) makes me wonder.

That's the price you pay when you want to drive a Rolls Royce.

Worried about 120 film being discontinued?

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