wooden film holders vs. plastic film holders

bonk · Jan 24, 2021

Chamonix makes some nice wooden (teak wood) 4x5 film holders that would go well with my Chamonix C45F-2. But it makes me wonder: Are there any advantages or disatvantages of wooden film holders compared to the usual plastic ones? How do they compare in terms of weight, durability and "light safety"? I am somewhat new to large format photography. Is there anything I need to know about film holders that you wish you knew when you started large format photography?

BradS · Jan 24, 2021

The wooden holders might be lighter. I’ve not tried the modern wood holders from Chamonix but the old “made for Kodak by...” wooden holders are considerably lighter than the newer plastic Fidelity/Lisco counterparts. I use wood holders for 8x10 but not 4x5.

For 4x5, I’ve tried most every brand and model that were commonly available. Fidelity Elite, Lisco Regal II, Toyo and Riteway are the best. My personal preference is for the old Riteway but all of these are very similar and are excellent, if in good condition. Condition matters more than brand.

Look for holders in excellent cosmetic condition you’ll see a lot that look like they’ve been beat to hell. Make sure the tape on the end flap is good. And make sure all the little dark slide retainer lock thingies are present ( some people remove these ). Most importantly make sure dark slides are not chipped, cracked or warped.

Nodda Duma · Jan 24, 2021

I have two of Chamonix’ wooden sheet film holders, both bought new: One in 4x5 and one in whole plate format. They are very high quality and function flawlessly. For wooden holders in general, even my antique wooden dry plate holders function well, though of course the Chamonix holders are more refined and have fewer dings from use. They are second lightest in my inventory, after my ChromaGraphica dry plate holders.

The plastic holders that I use function just as well. My workhorse holders in 4x5 are wooden (stained black).

Key is functionality (do they work well and do they have light leaks?). For film, if you are buying new, your options are (I think) Toyo and Chamonix. Both are worth the price at their respective price points.

AgX · Jan 24, 2021

BradS said:
And make sure all the little dark slide retainer lock thingies are present.

Are these locks important?
I mean, a slide won't come out by itself. If erroneously pulled, that would be when already inserted into the camera. To me it seems much more important to get unexposed vs.exposed right.

Or do mean that by accident both slides could be pulled the same time?

Ariston · Jan 24, 2021

AgX said:
Are these locks important?
I mean, a slide won't come out by itself. If erroneously pulled, that would be when already inserted into the camera. To me it seems much more important to get unexposed vs.exposed right.

Or do mean that by accident both slides could be pulled the same time?

Maybe something could get under that lip in the bag and push the slide out a little inadvertently...

BradS · Jan 24, 2021

AgX said:
Are these locks important?
I mean, a slide won't come out by itself. If erroneously pulled, that would be when already inserted into the camera. To me it seems much more important to get unexposed vs.exposed right.

Or do mean that by accident both slides could be pulled the same time?

Q: Are they important?
A: Yes!

If the little dark slide retaining lock thingies are missing, I throw the whole holder in the trash. Junk. Destroyed by someone

bdial · Jan 24, 2021

I’ll be a contrarian and say the locks aren’t all that important. I rarely use them, and don’t miss them on holders that don’t have them.
YMMV

BradS · Jan 24, 2021

Ariston said:
Maybe something could get under that lip in the bag and push the slide out a little inadvertently...

if you’re working in a studio they may be a slight annoyance but if you take your LF kit in the field, carry it in a backpack over rough terrain, the dark slide retainers are awfully damned important. There is a very good reason why the latest Fidelity Riteway film holders have child proof dark slide retainer locks.

Ariston · Jan 24, 2021

BradS said:
if you’re working in a studio they may be a slight annoyance but if you take your LF kit in the field, carry it in a backpack over rough terrain, the dark slider retainers are awfully damned important. There is a very good reason why the latest Fidelity Riteway film holders have child proof dark slide retainers.

I use mine almost exclusively out of a bag. And I am fully negligent enough to reach in and try and pull the film holder out by grabbing the dark slide grip. So I am the child they had in mind...

BradS · Jan 24, 2021

Ariston said:
I use mine almost exclusively out of a bag. And I am fully negligent enough to reach in and try and pull the film holder out by grabbing the dark slide grip. So I am the child they had in mind...

me too

Bob S · Jan 24, 2021

BradS said:
The wooden holders might be lighter. I’ve not tried the modern wood holders from Chamonix but the old “made for Kodak by...” wooden holders are considerably lighter than the newer plastic Fidelity/Lisco counterparts.I use wood holders for 8x10 but not 4x5.

For 4x5, I’ve tried most every brand and model that were commonly available. Fidelity Elite, Lisco Regal II, Toyo and Riteway are the best. My personal preference is for Riteway but all of these are very similar and are excellent, if in good condition. Condition matters more than brand.

Look for holders in excellent cosmetic condition you’ll see a lot that look like they’ve been beat to hell. Make sure the tape on the end flap is good. And make sure all the little dark slide retainer lock thingies are present ( some people remove these ). Most importantly make sure dark slides are not chipped, cracked or warped.

Perhaps because the newer Fidelity, Lisco and Riteway all came out of the same Calumet owned factory.

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2021

I don't use the locks, and usually just stop short of cursing them when they accidentally swing over and lock when I an loading/unloading them. Not using the locks has cost me perhaps two or three sheets of film in 40+ years. (4x5, 5x7, 8x10 and 11x14). And of course, one of those times was right after reading another thread on the same topic...always seems to be the case! I have lost far more sheets due to forgetting to close the lens, or close the aperture down.

I bought 4 NOS wood Kodak 8x10 holders awhile back...my favorite holders...for awhile I was saving them for my 'best' shots ('til I decided that was a bit silly). One or two of them can be a little harder to load. For some reason, the sharp corners of the film like to dig in a little into the wood under the rails if the film is not perfectly square to the holder. One just backs the film out a little and tries again, and one learns the trick, but it is a situation that does not happen with plastic holders.

Some of my holders have metal dark slides (I think they were often used for medical x-ray and industrial film holders) -- the weight seems to bump up fast with them!! But they can be nice to have. They are nearly unbreakable, can be re-straighten if abused. If a holder has any chance of getting damaged while being transported -- a holder with a metal slide gets facing outwards towards any danger. I also used metal darkslides to make modified darkslides to make 4x10s and 5.5x14s. A plastic one I made broke too easily tossed in my pack.

grat · Jan 24, 2021

The Chamonix holders are lightweight, beautiful to look at, and made exceptionally well. Also almost always sold out, and about the same price as 8 or so fidelity plastic holders, if you shop around a bit.

And a good grafmatic still holds 6 frames, numbers them, and makes it very difficult to accidentally double-expose.

Doremus Scudder · Jan 24, 2021

Brad,

Don't trash those filmholders without locks, sell 'em on eBay. There are many of us who don't like the locks. All my filmholders go into separate ZipLoc-style bags, which keep the slides from being pulled inadvertently. I use the locks occasionally, but really don't need them. I wouldn't toss an otherwise good holder because of lack of locks...

@OP,
As mentioned, condition is more important than material when it comes to holders. Wood, however, is elegant and simply has a nice feel. I love my ancient Kodak and Graflex wooden holders. I use a lot of Riteway, Lisco and Fidelity holders too. All function just fine.

I imagine new Chamonix holders would be excellent pieces of workmanship and functionality.

Best,

Doremus

AgX · Jan 24, 2021

Well, I now at least I see that point of having squeezed the holders in tight bagpacks before. Thank you.

I guess the OP now wants that we get back to that wood vs. plastic issue.

GKC · Jan 24, 2021

I have woods (Graflex made for Eastman Kodak) and plastics (Liscos)
They either work as they should, or get repaired (usually pretty easy with wood holders), or they go into a cannibal box for parts.
I find plastics are preferred for handheld aerial work as the grooves in the holder face keep a vacuum from forming on decents. making the spring back near impossible to budge.

For 4x5 holders I like the old Riteways.---they're darned near bulletproof.

138S · Jan 24, 2021

AgX said:
Are these locks important?
I mean, a slide won't come out by itself. If erroneously pulled, that would be when already inserted into the camera. To me it seems much more important to get unexposed vs.exposed right.
Or do mean that by accident both slides could be pulled the same time?

Simply if the locks are missed then you may take some alternative precautions, like making sure that the holders are stored vertical in the bag, or using some elastic bands:

... we can wrap those holders in plastic kitchen (Saran) film...

The many times I forgot to use the locks I had no problem anyway, if I had a holder without locks I would mark it and I would keep it. In case of a long trip (unpaved tracks...) I would use some elastic band.

Vaughn · Jan 24, 2021

AgX said:
Are these locks important?
I mean, a slide won't come out by itself. If erroneously pulled, that would be when already inserted into the camera. To me it seems much more important to get unexposed vs.exposed right.?...

Stuff happens:

Andrew O'Neill · Jan 24, 2021

My one wooden holder for 14x17, has scratches and a couple of gouges. Handle with more care than plastic holders.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 24, 2021

I have 8 Chamonix 4x5 film holders for my 45H-1. They weigh 5 ounces each, They're made of wood and carbon fiber. They look good and match the camera. They all fit perfectly. My lenses are old as sh!t. But at least the camera's new. It's nice to have them match especially after spending so much money on a new camera. They're expensive but I also didn't want to screw around with second-hand since I'm new to large format photography. I really wouldn't know what I'm buying. If used ones leak light, you won;t know until after your ruined loads of shots. Since you're treating yourself to a new system, you might as well treat yourself well if you can afford it. Even if you can't. What the hell.

I find the locks helpful especially when I'm loading film into them. I can feel which ones are loaded if things get confusing in the dark. It also helps me to confirm that the film was properly loaded in the holder. I might think the dark slide slid back all the way. But then, when I try to turn the lock, it won't;go. That means that I didn;t slide the film in all the way and have to correct that. If I didn't have the lock, I would have screwed it up. The film would not have been loaded properly. I suppose once we both become experts like the rest of the people here, we'll be able to know which used holders are OK, won't care if they match, and will know how to load film better. In the meanwhile, make things easier for yourself. Good luck.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 24, 2021

Oh, one more thing about the locks. Unlocking the holder is one more thing I have to do before pulling out the dark slide when I'm taking the shot. So it might be helping me from exposing film in the camera before I've checked everything.

mrosenlof · Jan 25, 2021

I have a few wood holders, but trust the newer plastic versions more. I am fine with holders without the little locks. I normally keep loaded holders in individual bags of some kind. My favorites are the black plastic bags from boxes of paper. It's pretty rare that I carry more than 3 film holders at a time.

DREW WILEY · Jan 25, 2021

Depends if you pamper your holders or not. Just like a wooden field camera, wooden holders can potentially warp, split, break, or just plain abrade, all depending on how they are specifically made as well as handled over the long run. I wouldn't trust old wooden holders. Take it from someone who has sold millions of dollars of fine woodworking equipment per year to some of the best cabinetmakers in the country. So I stick with the usual plastic Fidelity / Lisco holders. The problem sometimes with plastic is that it is static prone, especially in desert conditions. A basic industrial antistatic spray applied to the darkslides generally controls that. There are also all-metal holders like the old Hoffman version. These don't have any static issues, but might have condensation issues in cold damp weather.

Alan Edward Klein · Jan 26, 2021

DREW WILEY said:
Depends if you pamper your holders or not. Just like a wooden field camera, wooden holders can potentially warp, split, break, or just plain abrade, all depending on how they are specifically made as well as handled over the long run. I wouldn't trust old wooden holders. Take it from someone who has sold millions of dollars of fine woodworking equipment per year to some of the best cabinetmakers in the country. So I stick with the usual plastic Fidelity / Lisco holders. The problem sometimes with plastic is that it is static prone, especially in desert conditions. A basic industrial antistatic spray applied to the darkslides generally controls that. There are also all-metal holders like the old Hoffman version. These don't have any static issues, but might have condensation issues in cold damp weather.

At my age, the new wooden holders and cameras I bought are going to outlive me. Unfortunately.

RJ- · Jan 26, 2021

Are there any advantages or disatvantages of wooden film holders compared to the usual plastic ones? How do they compare in terms of weight, durability and "light safety"? I am somewhat new to large format photography. Is there anything I need to know about film holders that you wish you knew when you started large format photography?

Hi ... the Chamonix wooden film holders are superbly machined. In 10 years, only 1 whole plate wooden film holder failure requiring the light seals to be renewed.

Perhaps if you work in a wet climate, the wood tolerates humidity/expansion less well than plastic Fidelity/Elite types. Much like cameras - some are made of wood; others of ABS resin; some of metal. The Chamonix wooden film holders aren't perhaps the final word in quality or tolerance, however they are exceptionally worthwhile and can be renewed and restored over time.

RJ

wooden film holders vs. plastic film holders

bonk

BradS

Nodda Duma

AgX

Ariston

BradS

bdial

BradS

Ariston

BradS

Bob S

Vaughn

grat

Doremus Scudder

AgX

GKC

138S

Vaughn

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wooden film holders vs. plastic film holders

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