Wood for Framing

Daniel_OB · May 28, 2007

What is the best wood to make frame moldings, and what property such wood must have (e.g. moisture, ). Also what is framing wood treatment (e.g. Danish oil, ). I guess that pine wood from Home Depot will twist and bend due to high moisture. Is Oak easy to insert V-nails?

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bdial · May 28, 2007

Any wood that shows up in someplace like Home Depot will have been kiln dried. Unless it has gotten wet in storage or transport, it shouldn't have excessive moisture. Any twisting and bending of a piece of wood has more to do with the species and how it is cut, and then dried, than it's moisture content when it gets to a lumber yard. In general, flat sawn wood, such as typical planks of wood will move more than quarter sawn wood.
Danish oil or wax are the easiest finishes, not terribly durable, but that really isn't an issue with a picture frame. If you like the look then it would be a good choice. Oil finishes can be a problem with some oak, as it tends to drain out of the pores for a time. I've never tried to put v-nails in oak, my guess is that it would not be easy, at least by hand.

Colin Graham · May 28, 2007

I like VG Fir a lot, a stable soft wood that's light-colored at first but ages to a wonderful red that looks great with either warm or cool tone B&W prints. Poplar is great for paint grade frames, easy to work and takes paint very well... Profin by Daly's is a great wipe-on varnish that's easy to apply. My favorite though is shellac, the coats melt together so it's easy to apply and repair and you can add alcohol-based pigments directly to the cut to get a jump start on the patina.

percepts · Jun 3, 2007

I know it seems a good idea to make the frames yourself but actually making mouldings yourself is a lot of work. Why not just buy pre cut and mitred mouldings from a moulding supplier and just assemble yourself. There's a huge range to choose from and you get a highly professional finish without a lot of effort. And because the mitres are precision machine cut, the angles are perfect so there are no gaps at the corners providing you assemble properly, and therefore less finishing / filling to be done.

Ash is a good choice. Softwoods such as pine look like what they are, cheap. The exception is if you can source pine grown in very cold conditions where it grows slowly and the growth rings are very close together. This type is harder and far more stable long term.

You can put V nails into any wood if you have the right tools to do it. If you have a drill stand you can buy an attachment to put on the head.

User Removed · Jun 3, 2007

I started making my own frames from raw lumber this past year, and I found after buying the lumber, sanding supplies, corner joint hardware, finishing supplies, hanging hardware, glass, ect ect ect.... I was spending WAY more on making the frame than I could if I had just purchased a custom one from a framing store.

Colin Graham · Jun 3, 2007

Granted, wood is getting dear. The only reason I do it is because I enjoy the work and I know I'm getting exactly the look I'm after. But if I don't charge myself by the hour I can make a 16x20 frame for under 10 dollars US; glass, hardware and all. Buying lumber in the rough helps a lot, I usually get a chunk of 16/4 and mill it down myself. Buying profiled moldings can cost a great deal, at least a dollar a foot for something really simple in paint grade stock.

Daniel_OB · Jun 4, 2007

Yes making moldings can be time consuming and it is why I buy moldings for $(cdn)1.4 per ft. The problem is that moldings are sold per box with 400-500 ft. To get moulding customer wish and which I do not use often I still have to buy 500 ft. It is better to buy 10 ft from some framing store that already have it but they charge 2-3 times the price and more, which I just do not like.
I already have the best Bosch miter saw, routers, drills,... which I got to finish my photo-studio and to use in my spare time, so some simple moldings, as square or rectangular I can make with not a lot of efforts.

Buying ready frames is very expensive to photographers, and also a photograph is only a part of the whole with mat and frame. If a framer screw, and often does, it is my own blame.

Thanks guys for your time, I found it very useful to me.

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Doyle Thomas · Jun 4, 2007

Art is cheap, framing is expensive!

Daniel_OB · Jun 4, 2007

Doyle
I think there are a lot of truth in what you say today. People are buying pictures as a wall furniture, even and when I really do not expect to see like that.

Here something I saw just recently:

I visited one of my friend philosopher and business owner here in Toronto. He just got a new large apartment in very expensive area (for death cache). On his wall is painting reproduction (cheap print) from (cannot recall this moment painter) a horse racing and all horses stretching their legs front ahead and rear behind. Like flaying through air. At the time the painting is made was not a sin not to know how a horse run, and that picture is usually taken in art history as example. I told him about wrong things on the painting, and he said: uuuuh I never noticed it. I think he never looked at that picture, and why he should for it is a worthless reproduction.

The frame cost around $500 (my free guess), and the print arounf $5.

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percepts · Jun 4, 2007

Daniel_OB said:
I think he never looked at that picture, and why he should for it is a worthless reproduction.
The frame cost around $500 (my free guess), and the print arounf $5.

As a teenager I had a lot of posters of Salvador Dali paintings on my wall. They were cheap reproductions. Were they worthless? Depends whether you value art in monetary terms or something else. Do you know what I mean?

Shadow Images · Jun 4, 2007

Framing can be expensive, you just need to find the right framer willing to work with you on the price. I give all my artist wholesale pricing and some below depending on the situation. Most wholesale frame shops will work something out for you if your willing to bend on certain things, such as time. If you want it yesterday with top of the line products expect to pay. As for vnails in oak, it can be hard for a pneumatic vnailer to drive them in. I wouldn't want to do it by hand.

Doyle Thomas · Jun 5, 2007

The greatest strength and the greatest weakness of capitalisim is that there is no direct relationship between what something costs, and what it is worth.

Harrigan · Jun 5, 2007

bdial said:
Any wood that shows up in someplace like Home Depot will have been kiln dried. Unless it has gotten wet in storage or transport, it shouldn't have excessive moisture.

Pine 2x stock from your hardware store is only kiln dry to something like 16 percent. This is not acceptable for doing picture frames and is the reason the wood warps as soon as you get it home and into a dry area. You should get the cabinet grade pine if you are getting it at a hardware store.

I use walnut and cherry for frames but just about any wood will do fine as long as its not warped. I go for straight grain wood when choosing picture frame stock regardless of the variety.

Shadow Images · Jun 5, 2007

Doyle Thomas said:
The greatest strength and the greatest weakness of capitalisim is that there is no direct relationship between what something costs, and what it is worth.

True but the largest misconseption in framing is that the framer is making a fortune when the truth is no one take into account all the cost that go into a proper framing job. Moulding, glass, backing, and overhead to name just a few. I looked at making my own frames once and the cost saving was not enough to make me do it let alone that was not even including my time. It is just the same as someone saying anyone with a camera can take a great picture(just ask Nikon) .

panastasia · Aug 2, 2007

Daniel_OB said:
What is the best wood to make frame moldings, and what property such wood must have (e.g. moisture, ). Also what is framing wood treatment (e.g. Danish oil, ). I guess that pine wood from Home Depot will twist and bend due to high moisture. Is Oak easy to insert V-nails?

www.Leica-R.com

Pine & Oak are used for low budget picture frames in this part of the world because there is so much of it available (cheap). The grain is awful and almost impossible to stain. The best finish is shellac - looks best, easy to apply and remove - but not as durable polyurethane which is not reversible/repairable without damaging the underlying wood.

I restore (recreate) antique photos and never found a picture frame moulding that satisfy my needs after extensively searching nationwide. I learned much about the picture frame business in the process. Solid exotic wood frames seem difficult to find on the open market.

After a year of perfecting my own hardwood (hand made) frames for my signature work, I can tell you that the two most elegant woods for framing photos (narrow frames generally) are Honduras Mahogany and Peruvian Walnut (naturally dark) IMO, straight grain. The rough sawn lumber is priced about the same and worth every penny. Exotic lumber at a good price is found at the lumber yards that supply to furniture and cabinet makers but anyone can buy retail at these places. Tell them your in the picture frame business and buy wholesale.

Moisture content? Never had a problem with this type of lumber - I have a moisture meter - I checked a few boards along the way and found it always to be less than 9%. The lowest the meter reads is 6% (12-15% would not be good).

You'll need some good woodworking machines/tools of course.

Best Regards,

Paul

johnnywalker · Aug 2, 2007

Harrigan said:
bdial said:

Any wood that shows up in someplace like Home Depot will have been kiln dried. Unless it has gotten wet in storage or transport, it shouldn't have excessive moisture.

Pine 2x stock from your hardware store is only kiln dry to something like 16 percent. This is not acceptable for doing picture frames and is the reason the wood warps as soon as you get it home and into a dry area. You should get the cabinet grade pine if you are getting it at a hardware store.

I use walnut and cherry for frames but just about any wood will do fine as long as its not warped. I go for straight grain wood when choosing picture frame stock regardless of the variety.

Click to expand...

Right. The 2X stock is for construction, not indoor use such as furniture or picture frames. Furniture stock and wood flooring is usually dried down to 6 to 7 %, and I'm sure the same would hold for picture frames.

The best way to dry it down further is to cut it to slightly oversize, then leave it in your house for a year, at the same temperature and humidity as the house itself (not the basement in other words).

If you buy mouldings or furniture stock, it should already be dried to the proper moisture content. Be careful of cheap mouldings though, they are often made from either MDF or finger-jointed. The MDF has no grain (but is very stable), and the joints of the finger-jointed wood show up unless painted.

Daniel_OB · Aug 3, 2007

Panastasia
... Honduras Mahogany and Peruvian Walnut...

I will try these. I have very good tools already, the best what bosch make, but what question arise in my head is about the grain direction in that wood. No any experience with them, but thinking if the grain is diagonal to length will it make twisting and bending with these woods, and what is the best finish (Danish oil, shelak, ...).
Also, what you mean when say "narow" frame. I think that nearly square is the best resistant to twisting and bending, and what more away from square the higher risk of deforming with time.

Thanks
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panastasia · Aug 3, 2007

Daniel_OB said:
Panastasia
... Honduras Mahogany and Peruvian Walnut...

I will try these. I have very good tools already, the best what bosch make, but what question arise in my head is about the grain direction in that wood. No any experience with them, but thinking if the grain is diagonal to length will it make twisting and bending with these woods, and what is the best finish (Danish oil, shelak, ...).
Also, what you mean when say "narow" frame. I think that nearly square is the best resistant to twisting and bending, and what more away from square the higher risk of deforming with time.

The grain is very straight in most cases, mahogany can have some wavey/diagonal grain in places but not a problem if tools are very sharp. I suggest filling the grain before the finish is applied, but you probably knew that already. Hand select only straight lumber - bending and warping of finished product was never a problem - never happens with dry lumber.

By "narrow" I mean the width of the moulding. I prefer the following:

1/2" wide for photographs up to 11x14 (more difficult to produce than 5/8")
5/8" wide for photographs larger than 11x14
Mahogany for sepia/brown-reddish toned and hand tinted prints (stain/finish match print tone)
Walnut for warmtone prints (natural color w/clear shellac matches print tone)
For cold (or blue) tones such as with bromide paper, black stain is all that seems to work IMO

By experimenting with different materials you will learn some of your own secrets and probably more of mine. Good luck and enjoy!

Best Regards,

Paul

Wood for Framing

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