Wood cameras: re-finish or re-cover

[spoolman]

I'm currently working on restoring 3 Kodak Cartridge cameras and I'm trying to decide whether to re-cover them in leather or leave the wood bare and use linseed oil then varnish them.

Doug

 

[KenS]

I'm currently working on restoring 3 Kodak Cartridge cameras and I'm trying to decide whether to re-cover them in leather or leave the wood bare and use linseed oil then varnish them.

Doug

I removed the grey paint from my old B&J and applied light linseed oil for a few coats over a 30 day period.. no further coats of 'anything' and some 12+ years later it still 'looks' good...maybe even "Great"

Ken

 

[spoolman]

I removed the grey paint from my old B&J and applied light linseed oil for a few coats over a 30 day period.. no further coats of 'anything' and some 12+ years later it still 'looks' good...maybe even "Great"

Ken

Hi Ken: thanks for the advice.How long did you wait between coats and what did you use to apply the linseed oil?

Doug

 

[BradS]

I guess it depends what your goal is. If you want to use them to make photos, I'd say just do the minimum to make them fully functional. Otherwise, if you're going to go to the trouble of doing a restoration, I'd say...well, it depends on what the wood is but, generally, I prefer the look of natural wood - either oil rubbed or varnished.

Some years ago, I did a full strip down, rebuild and refinish type of restoration of an 8x10 Kodak 2D. It was a lot more time and effort than I had anticipated. Took about two years! The end result was beautiful but the film didn't know the difference. My photos were no better or worse after the resto than they were before...and the camera was out of service for two years.

 

[spoolman]

I guess it depends what your goal is. If you want to use them to make photos, I'd say just do the minimum to make them fully functional. Otherwise, if you're going to go to the trouble of doing a restoration, I'd say...well, it depends on what the wood is but, generally, I prefer the look of natural wood - either oil rubbed or varnished.

Some years ago, I did a full strip down, rebuild and refinish type of restoration of an 8x10 Kodak 2D. It was a lot more time and effort than I had anticipated. Took about two years! The end result was beautiful but the film didn't know the difference. My photos were no better or worse after the resto than they were before...and the camera was out of service for two years.

Hi Brad: the wood in these 3 cameras is mahogany. All 3 were pretty beat up and since I'm retired, I have the time to do a proper restoration. I'm leaning towards leaving the natural wood as I find it hard to get the right replacement leatherette as well as the cost and time to apply it properly. Thanks for your input.

Doug

 

[BradS]

Ah....Mahogany...nice! Yes, I think it will definitely be worth the effort. I'm sure they will be beautiful. I'm sure you know this already but, I'll mention it anyway. Try what ever fininsh you plan to use on some place where it won't show or on some other piece of scrap.

And please share photos of your work as you go...its always fun to see.

Kind Regards.

 

[spoolman]

Ah....Mahogany...nice! Yes, I think it will definitely be worth the effort. I'm sure they will be beautiful. I'm sure you know this already but, I'll mention it anyway. Try what ever fininsh you plan to use on some place where it won't show or on some other piece of scrap.

And please share photos of your work as you go...its always fun to see.

Kind Regards.

Hi Brad: most definitely I'll be testing on a small piece before doing the whole camera. What I have found in the past that different types of mahogany take re-finishing differently. So we'll see what happens. Photos definitely will be taken.

Doug

 

[Deleted member 88956]

If you want wood finish to last use what wooden boat has been doing for well ... a very long time.

Once wood old coat is stripped and fine sanded as best possible apply marine varnish in several steps: start with first coat of 10% varnish + 90% compatible solvent. Let it dry although it will never completely do. When possible sand down first coat as best possible (it is sticky so only so much can be done) and apply second coat with 30% varnish mix. Same wait and sand, coat with 50% varnish. Then over again with 70-80% varnish. Once you get to 100% varnish ensure at least 2 coats are applied and pay particular attention to sand everything as best possible before next coat. In fact once you pass 50% varnish mix it will be hard surface to sand well.

BTW, above is a short version, old standard calls for 10% increase between coats, so 10th coat when you use 100% varnish. This whole process give such great results because it allows varnish mix to penetrate deep and harden below surface making top coat not as prone to chipping.

The end result is hard, long lasting varnish coat that is resistant to damage, has perfect finish. This when used on wooden boat lasts a long time in very good shape, which is remarkable given environment boats are in. If you don't like shiny, use semi-flat varnish.

Linseed oil is OK, there are much better mixes of oil then pure linseed.

 

[BrianShaw]

Great lesson! Other options are to use gunstock finishing methods. Similar technique but not spar varnish. Finishing products include Tru-oil and Permalyn.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Hi Brad: the wood in these 3 cameras is mahogany.
Doug

Mahogany is one of the woods were it's not easy to get a smooth finish, since it has quite coarse woodgrain.
After sanding the surfaces smooth with very fine sandpaper, one has to fill the woodgrain: I do this as follows: take a bowl of egg white and put is lightly on the surfaces. Next wet sand the wood with ultra fine sandpaper and 'rub' the slur of egg white and sand dust into the grainy surface. Let thoroughly dry overnight. Do this step 3 to 4 times in order to get a very smooth surface. After this you can treat the wood with shellac or with varnish - do this several times and leave it dry each time before doing a next treatment. It is very very laboursom, but the result is fantastic if done properly. Shellac provides a more beautiful result IMHO since its much thinner than varnish and your camera's would be restored in the 'right way' since in the old days all these wooden camera's were treated with some kind of shellac.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Mahogany is one of the woods were it's not easy to get a smooth finish, since it has quite coarse woodgrain.
After sanding the surfaces smooth with very fine sandpaper, one has to fill the woodgrain: I do this as follows: take a bowl of egg white and put is lightly on the surfaces. Next wet sand the wood with ultra fine sandpaper and 'rub' the slur of egg white and sand dust into the grainy surface. Let thoroughly dry overnight. Do this step 3 to 4 times in order to get a very smooth surface. After this you can treat the wood with shellac or with varnish - do this several times and leave it dry each time before doing a next treatment. It is very very laboursom, but the result is fantastic if done properly. In the old days all these wooden camera's were treated with some kind of shellac.

The method I described fills wood of ANY kind smooth as mirror. It's a long process but a long proven one.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The method I described fills wood of ANY kind smooth as mirror. It's a long process but a long proven one.

I've used both methods, but using Shellac in the end matches the original camera finishes better.
Further, if you have a camera made of an oily wood e.g. teak wood, shellac deals better with it than varnish.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I've used both methods, but using Shellac in the end matches the original camera finishes better.
Further, if you have a camera made of an oily wood e.g. teak wood, shellac deals better with it than varnish.

I don't doubt it works fine. I have not finished a wooden camera yet, worked on wooden boats quite a bit. Method I described allows wood grain to lift up with high solvent content steps, which gets sanded off and ultimately wood is flat and gives that smooth finish. More importantly it is extremely durable.

 

[BradS]

If you want wood finish to last use what wooden boat has been doing for well ... a very long time.

Once wood old coat is stripped and fine sanded as best possible apply marine varnish in several steps: start with first coat of 10% varnish + 90% compatible solvent. Let it dry although it will never completely do. When possible sand down first coat as best possible (it is sticky so only so much can be done) and apply second coat with 30% varnish mix. Same wait and sand, coat with 50% varnish. Then over again with 70-80% varnish. Once you get to 100% varnish ensure at least 2 coats are applied and pay particular attention to sand everything as best possible before next coat. In fact once you pass 50% varnish mix it will be hard surface to sand well.

BTW, above is a short version, old standard calls for 10% increase between coats, so 10th coat when you use 100% varnish. This whole process give such great results because it allows varnish mix to penetrate deep and harden below surface making top coat not as prone to chipping.

The end result is hard, long lasting varnish coat that is resistant to damage, has perfect finish. This when used on wooden boat lasts a long time in very good shape, which is remarkable given environment boats are in. If you don't like shiny, use semi-flat varnish.

Linseed oil is OK, there are much better mixes of oil then pure linseed.

This is almost exactly what I did on the Kodak 2D that I restored...and why it took so long to complete. I used natural turpentine and spar varnish and sanded extremely minimally (actually not sanding but rubbing very lightly with 00 steel wool after the first two steps) between steps so as not to disturb the original dimensions of the wood pieces. It turned out very nice and the finished camera fetched a very nice profit but not nearly enough to cover my labor.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

This is almost exactly what I did on the Kodak 2D that I restored...and why it took so long to complete. I used natural turpentine and spar varnish and sanded extremely minimally (actually not sanding but rubbing very lightly with 00 steel wool after the first two steps) between steps so as not to disturb the original dimensions of the wood pieces. It turned out very nice and the finished camera fetched a very nice profit but not nearly enough to cover my labor.

It is laborious for sure and yes on the fine wool use in some of the steps, especially early on when mix does not really want to completely dry up. There is little danger thought to alter dimension as what it is being sanded off is mostly fluffed up wood grain. Of course one needs to careful not to overdo it. With every step it is clearer and clearer how the coatings build up and start producing ever better top finish.

 

[spoolman]

Mahogany is one of the woods were it's not easy to get a smooth finish, since it has quite coarse woodgrain.
After sanding the surfaces smooth with very fine sandpaper, one has to fill the woodgrain: I do this as follows: take a bowl of egg white and put is lightly on the surfaces. Next wet sand the wood with ultra fine sandpaper and 'rub' the slur of egg white and sand dust into the grainy surface. Let thoroughly dry overnight. Do this step 3 to 4 times in order to get a very smooth surface. After this you can treat the wood with shellac or with varnish - do this several times and leave it dry each time before doing a next treatment. It is very very laboursom, but the result is fantastic if done properly. Shellac provides a more beautiful result IMHO since its much thinner than varnish and your camera's would be restored in the 'right way' since in the old days all these wooden camera's were treated with some kind of shellac.

Hello Ron: thank you for this information. The wood surface has already been sanded by the camera manufacturer. I'll be giving the camera a light sanding to remove any remaining traces of the leather covering, then I'll begin re-gluing some of the pieces that were broken off by previous owners back onto the camera.

Doug