wisner problems

Hello all,

As a general question to those that might have more experience with the Ron Wisner and his company -

What the heck is going on?

I ordered an 8x10 fresnel screen from him last December. He charged my visa on 12/18/04. He assured me that it was an easy order and would be filled soon. At the same time he was going to send some screws for the bedrail that were missing from the brand new camera that I had bought.

Here it is February and no fresnel, no screws, no nothing.

I've called five times - always get a recording. I've sent four emails - no response.

Are they still in business?

I just talked to a friend who is having the same basic no response problem getting a simple lensboard from them - so I'm not the only one in this situation.

Anyone know what's going on ?

Thanks for any responses.

Terry Hayden

Cancel your order and buy it elsewhere. If the guy can't come through then why would anyone buy his stuff? Other than that I would say the man runs a piss poor business and the best way to correct it is to buy your stuff somewhere else.

http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/500933.html

There are loads of similar complaints. In my case, about three years ago - I had to leave messages threatening lawsuits to get a delivery to happen - and that order still has one item outstanding that I have basically written off as 'education'. I would bring the credit card company into the battle and get them to reverse the charges. Just be sure and don't wait too long. I think you only have three months or something like that to object to a charge.

Caveat emptor with RW.

Terry Hayden said:

Hello all,

As a general question to those that might have more experience with the Ron Wisner and his company -

What the heck is going on?

I ordered an 8x10 fresnel screen from him last December. He charged my visa on 12/18/04. He assured me that it was an easy order and would be filled soon. At the same time he was going to send some screws for the bedrail that were missing from the brand new camera that I had bought.

Here it is February and no fresnel, no screws, no nothing.

I've called five times - always get a recording. I've sent four emails - no response.

Are they still in business?

I just talked to a friend who is having the same basic no response problem getting a simple lensboard from them - so I'm not the only one in this situation.

Anyone know what's going on ?

Thanks for any responses.

Terry Hayden

Click to expand...

I'm sick and tired of these threads. I don't discount the frustation the people who are stiffed by Ron are having. However this is not the place to air dirty laundry as it's old news. No one is providing a public service as the problem is well known and nothing new. On the other hand everytime one of these threads spring up several people who like RW's service chime in to defend Ron. And why shouldn't they. Eventually Ron pops up himself and you get his perspective. I don't care. It's tiresome. Enough.

People have started up websites devoted to problems with WalMart etc. Maybe someone should develop a "We have problems with Wisner" website and all the people who feel they have been wronged can go there. If any of the rest of us need to find out the current status vis-a-vis Ron's current delivery problems we can go there. Beyond that I don't care to hear about RW, I never plan on dealing with him and those that do or are planning to have plenty of other threads on other forums to read so they can develop their own informed opinion.

You have many other non-APUG avenues open to you to resolve your issues with RW. Use them.

Wisner

Terry-sorry you got caught up in the mix. Personally I would contact Richard Ritter (802-365-7807) and let him go over the entire camera for once and forever. He does this alot with these and you will be able to use it without having something fall apart.
Regards, Peter

This thread is more helpful to a newbie than any of the interminable analog vs digital flame wars that pop up periodically in every photo-related forum on the web. Every time another person gets 'the treatment' from these merchants, it just adds more weight to the accumulating evidence that things are not as they ought to be. If you hate the threads, fine. Just ignore them. I studiously avoid reading every digital vs analog thread for instance. It's easy to ignore what you are not interested in.

Eric Rose said:

I'm sick and tired of these threads. I don't discount the frustation the people who are stiffed by Ron are having. However this is not the place to air dirty laundry as it's old news. No one is providing a public service as the problem is well known and nothing new. On the other hand everytime one of these threads spring up several people who like RW's service chime in to defend Ron. And why shouldn't they. Eventually Ron pops up himself and you get his perspective. I don't care. It's tiresome. Enough.

People have started up websites devoted to problems with WalMart etc. Maybe someone should develop a "We have problems with Wisner" website and all the people who feel they have been wronged can go there. If any of the rest of us need to find out the current status vis-a-vis Ron's current delivery problems we can go there. Beyond that I don't care to hear about RW, I never plan on dealing with him and those that do or are planning to have plenty of other threads on other forums to read so they can develop their own informed opinion.

You have many other non-APUG avenues open to you to resolve your issues with RW. Use them.

Click to expand...

clay said:

This thread is more helpful to a newbie than any of the interminable analog vs digital flame wars that pop up periodically in every photo-related forum on the web. Every time another person gets 'the treatment' from these merchants, it just adds more weight to the accumulating evidence that things are not as they ought to be. If you hate the threads, fine. Just ignore them. I studiously avoid reading every digital vs analog thread for instance. It's easy to ignore what you are not interested in.

Click to expand...

As a newbie to large format - I agree.

I can see by the complaints that this is not a business to purchase from or trust.

This does have its place in APUG.


Graham.

Eric Rose said:

I'm sick and tired of these threads. I don't discount the frustation the people who are stiffed by Ron are having. However this is not the place to air dirty laundry as it's old news. No one is providing a public service as the problem is well known and nothing new. On the other hand everytime one of these threads spring up several people who like RW's service chime in to defend Ron. And why shouldn't they. Eventually Ron pops up himself and you get his perspective. I don't care. It's tiresome. Enough.

People have started up websites devoted to problems with WalMart etc. Maybe someone should develop a "We have problems with Wisner" website and all the people who feel they have been wronged can go there. If any of the rest of us need to find out the current status vis-a-vis Ron's current delivery problems we can go there. Beyond that I don't care to hear about RW, I never plan on dealing with him and those that do or are planning to have plenty of other threads on other forums to read so they can develop their own informed opinion.

You have many other non-APUG avenues open to you to resolve your issues with RW. Use them.

Click to expand...

Hey Eric, thanks for sharing. Personally, I think APUG has a large audience, many of whom are aspire to the purchase of a new large format camera. This kind of topical reminder is good for them.

When I bought my first LF camera in 1997, I chose Canham, without the benefit of web-based feedback. I guess I was fortunate.

Most threads repeat, one way or another, be it "is film dead", "I love my Efke, but when I buy 120, it doesn't come wound on spools", "can you confirm that my camera is busted?", etc. People don't search the archives for an often better answer, but want something current.

I've learned to avoid most of the discussions in the lounge area. Seems to me if you see a thread entitled "Wisner Problems", you should do likewise.
Take care,
Tom

clay said:

This thread is more helpful to a newbie than any of the interminable analog vs digital flame wars that pop up periodically in every photo-related forum on the web. Every time another person gets 'the treatment' from these merchants, it just adds more weight to the accumulating evidence that things are not as they ought to be. If you hate the threads, fine. Just ignore them. I studiously avoid reading every digital vs analog thread for instance. It's easy to ignore what you are not interested in.

Click to expand...

I agree. This is a photographic community & stuff like this should be shared here. It would piss me off if I sent a large sum of money to someone like this & then got this same service. I would be even more pissed if there were lots of folks who got the same treatment but did not share their experiences. Good experiences should also be shared.

Graham,

Ron makes a fine camera system. People have/do run into trouble with schedules with dealing with the factory. If you take a look at the many threads on the LF boards you will see the solution most take is to buy through a dealer.

I have had good results buying Wisner equipment through a dealer. I have had both good and slow results buying from the factory.

Don't discount a very good make of camera just because of some bad threads.
You might be doing yourself a diservice in the long run.

Or on the otherhand if you just want to add to the Wisner haters club, that's fine too.

I had the same problem when I rode my Harley. A lot of the guys hated them and had all kinds of bad things to say about them, until they bought one.

Although I own two Wisner cameras, I have never dealt with the company directly.

I am in need of a lens board adapter to allow the use of my 4x5 boards on my 5x7 camera. I called Wisner to order one and got their Voice Mail. Did not leave a message, just called one of their authorized dealers and ordered it from them.

I have heard several times that you should purchase from a "dealer" instead of directly from Wisner, and you get much better service that way.

Jim

My point was that there is already LOTS of information on the net about RW. All you have to do is a google search and you will find lots of pro and cons. I would hope most people do their due diligence by searching the available information archives before plunking down major bucks on any item. If there was little or no information on RW available on the net then I too would agree that posting it here would be a service to us all. This is not the case in this instance.

What I am tired of is when someone feels they are mistreated the first inclination is to blast it all over the net. I feel the underlying reason for this is the mistaken impression it will bring some pressure to bear on the offending party and will quicken the resolution. Within the last couple of days there have been negative positing about RW on almost all LF forums. Obviously someone is pissed and they want to make sure EVERYONE knows about it.

if I were to contract with builder XYZ who was a relative unknown and the experience was less than stellar I would certainly post my experiences to APUG so all could benefit. In this posting I would go thru the entire chronology of events so as to paint an accurate picture of the situation at least from my perspective.

If the experience was excellent I would also mention this.

That's the end of my rant.

wisner issue/rant

Eric,

If you had taken the time to read my original post you would see that it was a request for current information on the issue.

While you seem to have time to do a lot of web surfing of other lf sites and are apparently a glutton for punishment ( can't stand this sort of post but reads all of them ), I only have time to check in on issues through APUG.

Other posters seem to see APUG as I do - a place to get answers to questions that are concerning them now. These answers are from a large community of people and I have come to respect them greatly.

If you feel compelled to carry on any more on a subject that is not to the point of the original post - feel free to email me directly - I believe that you can do that through my forum registration.

My apologies to others that had to be distracted by the flamesource, I was only trying to get some community response.

Terry


PS - Ron called me directly - as a result of my post - and promised that he would attend to the matter immediately. Make no mistake, this forum does have significant influence !

This thread is entirely appropriate for APUG. I'm sure many will find it useful - I did. And it's nice to have here and not have to do a Google search to read comments who are not part ot the APUG community. I personally have met Ron Wisner several times and he seems like a perfectly decent guy and at the time I met him he was very commited to building cameras and his business. I cannot accout for the problems people are having with the factory, but there can be many influences beyond his control. Personally, I give him the benefit of the doubt but people have to watch out for their own money so dealing with dealers may be the way to go. Maybe that's why Keith Canham insists customers deal thru dealers only.

As for the criticism that the original poster has received, there are no official monitors here (outside of Sean) and people are going beyond their place by trying to tell other people what they can post. If you don't like it, don't read it. If you think it's a bad thread, report it to Sean and save the tirades.

-Mike

Well, I am one of those who has been pondering the move to large format. And since I buy 99% of my gear on fee-bay, I often see the Wisner products pop-up there.

Nothing makes me more angry than a company who does not back their products or who is unresponsive to a paying customers needs.

So, reading all the pros and cons on APUG and other places is a benefit to me. I know not to deal with Ron and I thank those who are willing to attach their own names to the negative interactions with the Wisner Company.

This is certainly an important thread. If someone cannot make a promise and keep it, would you give them your hard earned money? A small business must operate as a large one does, with integrity. If the trust is not well placed, why should they get anyone's money? tim

It's sad that it took a "question" on APUG to get the owner of the company to finally contact him.

This should have been done a month ago.

I guess I'm just a little too sensitive when it comes to complainers, no matter how they couch their complaint. Obviously I am wrong on this issue and bow to the insurmountable wisdom and delicacy of the agrieved.

I'm glad Ron resolved your problem. I too am disappointed that it took this type of action to get him to shape up. I just wish someone would take him to court if they feel suitably ripped off and let that become public record. Win or lose.

I don't spend a lot of time reading threads I don't like. On the other boards I just ignore them, but you know what they are about by the title. I just didn't want APUG to go the way of a few other forums.

I stand corrected.

Eric

I would just like to know what dealers there ar that handle Wisner products? The ones I knew all have dropped carrying Wisner products.

"He assured me that it was an easy order and would be filled soon. At the same time he was going to send some screws for the bedrail that were missing from the brand new camera that I had bought."

He does this too often. But, no matter the assurances you still don't have the parts? Why would a brand new Wisner with all the fabulous quality control come with missing screws on the bedrail? My Linhofs never had this problem. I don't know one other camera maker that has problems like this.

"I'm sick and tired of these threads."

So am I, and I post them when this crap comes up so maybe Wisner will finally do what he says he does... actually build a good camera & give good service. It can't be any simpler than that. NO other camera maker has these posts. Not one!

"Personally I would contact Richard Ritter (802-365-7807) and let him go over the entire camera for once and forever. He does this alot with these and you will be able to use it without having something fall apart."

Or Gary Hurst at (801) 731-7008. He does the same thing. Amazing that one buys a brand new product & gets recommendations to send it to someone else who will take it, check everything & fix the problems just so it will do what was promised when you sent your money. (same tired old refrain here.. NO other camera maker has these posts)

"Every time another person gets 'the treatment' from these merchants, it just adds more weight to the accumulating evidence that things are not as they ought to be."

And these posts are needed if we are to help others to stay away from the frustration of getting a Brand New product that doesn't work. With a 1926 Deardorff or 1900 Century maybe it is understandable... but NOT in a new product. You buy the old stuff knowing they might need TLC & some rebuilding & refinishing but no one would buy a brand new camera expecting to do this type of stuff.

"I can see by the complaints that this is not a business to purchase from or trust"

Looks as if someone is getting the message.

"When I bought my first LF camera in 1997, I chose Canham, without the benefit of web-based feedback. I guess I was fortunate."

And I bet the only complaints you will ever read on Canham are that 'the Canham doesn't fit how I shoot". Not 'my camera fell apart/won't work/is missing something/isn't finished or whatever. Once again... (same tired old refrain here.. NO other camera maker has these posts)

" If you take a look at the many threads on the LF boards you will see the solution most take is to buy through a dealer. "

And where in the ads for Wisner cameras does it say to do this? Then again, if you try to order certain cameras from a Dealer Ron steps in and takes them away from them so you end up dealing with him anyway. What kind of business is it that requires customers to stay away from the maker if they want a good product if he sells direct? Why should one have to go through a dealer just to have the camera checked ot to make sure it won't fall apart or isn't up to specs? Just who is in charge of quality control?

"Don't discount a very good make of camera just because of some bad threads. "

Thats right, it is the over & over & over yet once again threads about poor quality, poor service & goods paid for & never delivered you have to count up before parting with your money. Anyone can make a mistake. It happens. Most will rectify the mistake when it is discovered, not wait til it appears on a public forum before addressing it.

"Or on the otherhand if you just want to add to the Wisner haters club, that's fine too."

Is there a membership card? A cool Tshirt? A secret decoder ring?

"My point was that there is already LOTS of information on the net about RW."

You don't get LOTS of information of this type without LOTS of problems. People aren't making this up just to start a new hobby.(thought if there really is a secret decoder ring, maybe it is worth the self abuse of ordering a Wisner?)

"If there was little or no information on RW available on the net then I too would agree that posting it here would be a service to us all. This is not the case in this instance"

Just who in hell expects to have to check out whether the maker of a major name brand does business this way? There is only information of this because of so many problems. Usually for any one complaint there are many people who won't comlain out loud. Just how many are there really?

" Within the last couple of days there have been negative positing about RW on almost all LF forums. Obviously someone is pissed and they want to make sure EVERYONE knows about it."

Yep, and I am one who posts this crap. Ron invites it. He is just too easy. If he didn't have these problems these posts wouldn't come up.
Do a search on Gandolfi, Ebony & even Shen Hao (the real cheapie chinese camera) and you won't find this kind of carping. It only comes up with ONE 'camera maker' and one 'camera restorer'.

"PS - Ron called me directly - as a result of my post - and promised that he would attend to the matter immediately. Make no mistake, this forum does have significant influence !"

So Terry, let us know when it is solved. Too many are posted with complaints & then no other information. Keep us apprised of what happens, though I am surprised when it arrived in this condition you didn't send it back immediately & order from another maker.

"I'm glad Ron resolved your problem."

To this point is is only a promise to do so. If he actually does get it solved I hope he will post & let us know when & how it was taken care of.

Take it any way you want. I posted my rants on Ronald BJ Wisner because I got tired of seeing friends screwed. A few knew I used to own a collection agency & run a law office & asked what to do. Most won't get that involved in the legal process but by letting others know that all is not well they at least help warn those who may need the information in the future.

Ron.... "CAN"... make a good camera. In use his stuff doesn't fit how I photograph & I won't buy them any longer used for re-sale as they are dogs on the market. I don't think they would be that way if he actually did a few small things: produce what he advertises, deliver what he promises & take care of the few problems that would come up immediately. It really is that damn simple.

Eric Rose said:

I'm sick and tired of these threads. I don't discount the frustation the people who are stiffed by Ron are having. However this is not the place to air dirty laundry as it's old news. No one is providing a public service as the problem is well known and nothing new. On the other hand everytime one of these threads spring up several people who like RW's service chime in to defend Ron. And why shouldn't they. Eventually Ron pops up himself and you get his perspective. I don't care. It's tiresome. Enough.

People have started up websites devoted to problems with WalMart etc. Maybe someone should develop a "We have problems with Wisner" website and all the people who feel they have been wronged can go there. If any of the rest of us need to find out the current status vis-a-vis Ron's current delivery problems we can go there. Beyond that I don't care to hear about RW, I never plan on dealing with him and those that do or are planning to have plenty of other threads on other forums to read so they can develop their own informed opinion.

You have many other non-APUG avenues open to you to resolve your issues with RW. Use them.

Click to expand...

If you're sick and tired of reading these threads...........then don't and move on.

Followng this thread, I will never purchase a product from Wisner.

End of story.


Graham.

If you can find what you want/need from a dealer, then that's probably the best way to proceed. I found MidWest Photo had some of RW's pre-cut copal #1 and #3 ULF lens boards that fit an old Korona 7x17. Nice gear.

At least RW is alive and breathing. Anyone tried dealing with Ken Hough in the past six years? RW is nearly a saint by comparison.

Just another $0.02US worth.

mikepry said:

If you're sick and tired of reading these threads...........then don't and move on.

Click to expand...

I avoid these type of threads myself; I see no value in discussing someones perceived shortcomings on the Internet.

Promises, promises

Terry Hayden said:

PS - Ron called me directly - as a result of my post - and promised that he would attend to the matter immediately. Make no mistake, this forum does have significant influence !

Click to expand...

Terry,

Ron Wisner used to have excellent service. I don't know what's happening now, but I have gotten 3 apologies and 5 promises to mail a damned lensboard ordered rush (and paid for as rush) almost 2 months ago.

I'm notifying American Express, and then putting the Wisner on EBay. It's time to find equipment that can be serviced.

Can anyone recommend a comparable camera to the 4X5 Technical?