Wireless Thermocouple/Thermometer how to inside Jobo Tank???? Need Tech.

mshchem · Jan 23, 2024

So seems like a lot of computer geeks here.

How do I put a wireless thermo inside a Jobo tank? Maybe fit inside an empty reel?? It wouldn't even need to be able to survive chemistry, only for water mock ups.

What would be ultimate would be a fully functional, dummy reel with a low mass wireless device that would report to a LCD display

mshchem · Jan 23, 2024

Nothing? Come on

fiddle · Jan 24, 2024

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/projects/how-to-make-a-wireless-thermometer-with-arduino/

not waterproof tho.

Turn your Arduino Into a Waterproof Thermometer Using DS18B20 in 4 Simple Steps!!

In this tutorial, we will show you how to build a low cost thermometer, using Arduino & DS18B20 waterproof version (Digital Temperature Sensor) Step 1: Items you need to have Arduino UNO (or other Arduino Models) DS18B20 Waterproof Resistor 4.7KOhm (Preferably 1/2Watt). You can check the Watt...

cb-electronics.com

There are plenty of waterproof thermometers, if sn arduino and screen can live outside the tank.

koraks · Jan 24, 2024

mshchem said:
How do I put a wireless thermo inside a Jobo tank?

Why not just put a regular NTC or waterproofed DS18B20 on a wire in there? A 1510 drum for instance will hold something like 120ml water (pretty close to the 150ml required for rotary dev) with the rubber lid off. You could insert the probe into it as it runs, or temporarily stall it.

Alternatively, you could make a simple wireless meter by hooking any suitable sensor up to e.g. a small ESP12 module with a battery and cast the whole thing in rubber etc. If you use a suitable battery and play it smart with hibernation of the microcontroller, you could get a usable standby time out of the thing before the battery runs out. Or build a little container for it with a screw lid and a rubber gasket so you can easily access the innards. Shouldn't be too difficult.

MattKing · Jan 24, 2024

It isn't designed for developing tanks, but it works like a hot damn in a roast turkey!
https://www.meater.com/

titrisol · Jan 24, 2024

mshchem said:
So seems like a lot of computer geeks here.

How do I put a wireless thermo inside a Jobo tank? Maybe fit inside an empty reel?? It wouldn't even need to be able to survive chemistry, only for water mock ups.

What would be ultimate would be a fully functional, dummy reel with a low mass wireless device that would report to a LCD display

,
Photo-Chemistry shouldnt affect anything on a TC or thermistor, it isn't that aggresive
That wireless meat probe looks very useful and can fit in the center pole with the tip on the liquid
Omega Engineering has a few of those but they are priced a lot higher

MattKing · Jan 24, 2024

That meat thermometer has one feature that might create a complication. It actually has two sensors - one that measures the temperature inside the meat, and another that measures the ambient temperature in the oven. I'm not sure how well the software designed for it will deal with a situation where the entire probe is at the same temperature.

mshchem · Jan 24, 2024

Omega is a good source for everything measurement. I need to draw a picture of what would be cool, then seek out geniuses.

We used thermocouples that were tiny durable things, never in water and wires everywhere. Weirdly similar, we were checking preheat times of a 1500 lb fixture in a preheat oven, (for appliance foam insulation).

Jobo should make one of these.

When I was using my good old Paterson tanks and an aquarium heater in a pot, I would preheat the tank by putting it under my shirt to warm it.

I need a rocket engineer, avionics!

Steven Lee · Jan 24, 2024

@mshchem If you are trying to calibrate your process for something like C-41, it is easier to measure the water temperature in the tank before/after. Here's how I do it:

I prepare 5L of water of known stable temperature like 100F
Pour the required amount into a tank
Run it in a JOBO for 3:15
Measure the water temperature in the tank right after
Take note of the drop vs the initial 100F
Make adjustments to your tank warmup procedure.

The best warmup was the one PE suggested: two 30-second baths. In that case the drop is only 1F, this gives me the starting temperature of 100.5F and the final temperature of 99.5F. The control strip happily agrees by demonstrating the RGB densities within control limits.

I too initially was looking for a wireless temperature sensor, but nothing I found offered 0.1C accuracy.

mshchem · Jan 24, 2024

Steven Lee said:
@mshchem If you are trying to calibrate your process for something like C-41, it is easier to measure the water temperature in the tank before/after. Here's how I do it:

I prepare 5L of water of known stable temperature like 100F

Pour the required amount into a tank

Run it in a JOBO for 3:15

Measure the water temperature in the tank right after

Take note of the drop vs the initial 100F

Make adjustments to your tank warmup procedure.

The best warmup was the one PE suggested: two 30-second baths. In that case the drop is only 1F, this gives me the starting temperature of 100.5F and the final temperature of 99.5F. The control strip happily agrees by demonstrating the RGB densities within control limits.

I too initially was looking for a wireless temperature sensor, but nothing I found offered 0.1C accuracy.

I completely understand what you are saying, I've done it all. I still would love such a device that I describe.

I'm going to make a temperature controlled glove box with nitrogen purge.

mshchem · Jan 24, 2024

Newest idea is to make a device that mounts on the outside of a tank bottom, could even snap on like a magnet. I need to get a couple thermocouples.

Chan Tran · Jan 24, 2024

The problem isn't so much the thermocouple but rather the wireless sender.

mshchem · Jan 25, 2024

Chan Tran said:
The problem isn't so much the thermocouple but rather the wireless sender.

Yes, I agree. There are wireless remote outside thermometers are readily available but the sensor/transmitter/battery are too big and not suitable for immersion

Steven Lee · Jan 25, 2024

@mshchem I will be keeping an eye on this thread and want you to succeed, hoping that you'll update it. Are you looking for a way to monitor temperature while film is being developed, or you'd be OK with a sensor that is only used with empty reels and water? The later use case allows for a bigger device.

Chan Tran · Jan 25, 2024

mshchem said:
Yes, I agree. There are wireless remote outside thermometers are readily available but the sensor/transmitter/battery are too big and not suitable for immersion

One solution is to build your own tank. Perhaps attach a piece outside and at the bottom of the tank that contain the transmitter/battery with the probe sticking inside the tank.

mshchem · Jan 25, 2024

Steven Lee said:
@mshchem I will be keeping an eye on this thread and want you to succeed, hoping that you'll update it. Are you looking for a way to monitor temperature while film is being developed, or you'd be OK with a sensor that is only used with empty reels and water? The later use case allows for a bigger device.

I really would just like to be able to monitor the actual temp of the solution. Shouldn't be rocket science. I'm going to buy a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer at the hardware store and dissect the sending unit.

Actually not rocket science but rocket engineering. I used to work for a division of Raytheon, I may try to get in touch.

mshchem · Jan 25, 2024

Chan Tran said:
One solution is to build your own tank. Perhaps attach a piece outside and at the bottom of the tank that contain the transmitter/battery with the probe sticking inside the tank.

Yep, this is what I am thinking. I need to understand size of sensor. Other possibility is to use a Jobo 1520 and run the wire out of the bottom of the tank, the wire wouldn't get twisted just going back and forth. It would look goofy.

mshchem · Jan 25, 2024

Excellent discussion, thanks for participating!!

Chan Tran · Jan 25, 2024

mshchem said:
Excellent discussion, thanks for participating!!

Are you going to use the tank on a roller processor of some kind?

koraks · Jan 25, 2024

mshchem said:
I'm going to buy a wireless indoor/outdoor thermometer at the hardware store and dissect the sending unit.

Mostly this will be some variant on a 433MHz transmitter or similar (in the US, 866MHz is also allowed I think) , coupled with a microcontroller by means of brains. Such 433MHz/866MHz TX/RX kits are also available, but probably on the large side and you'd still face the challenge of making a device that will fit & be waterproof. I'm not sure whether dissecting an existing device is going to bring much, although it can be fun/educational.

You could also look at the nrf52840 SoC which is aimed at small-scale, low-power wireless applications. There are little experimenter boards the size of a USB stick (with an actual USB plug) with this SoC and some pins taken to the side of the board that you could connect sensors etc. to. Again, you'll have to fashion a power supply to go with it, waterproof it etc.

Chan Tran · Jan 25, 2024

I think if the OP uses something like the Jobo CPP which only rotate 2 turns then changes direction. I think he can make a hole at the bottom of the tank and stick a thermocouple in. Thermocouples are available in just about any size. With a quick disconnect he can then connect the cable there to connect to the thermometer. The cable will be twisted 2 turns back anh forth but I don't thin it's going to be a problem .

mshchem · Jan 25, 2024

So here's the "works" of wireless transmitter. Need a waterproof plastic jar, need to separate the sensing element from PCB, need to drill hole in tank fit sensor in tank run a wire through bottom and into jar containing PCB with 3V battery etc etc. Not sure if I want to mess with this right now. Need to think.

Easiest thing is forget about wireless, put a TC in the bottom of the tank and let the wires hang free.

jk0592 · Jan 25, 2024

You should have a look at the compensating timer that Catlabs sells: https://www.catlabs.info/product/ttt . I think it is mostly useful for BW development, but it might give you some ideas.

mshchem · Jan 25, 2024

jk0592 said:
You should have a look at the compensating timer that Catlabs sells: https://www.catlabs.info/product/ttt . I think it is mostly useful for BW development, but it might give you some ideas.

Yep, I have a couple of the older Zone VI versions that I use for black and white printing. New little motorized processor "Ago" has compensating timer for C-41.
This is mostly an exercise for my weak mind. Seems like a simple thing. I need to investigate more meanwhile I need to clean up my darkroom

mshchem · Jan 26, 2024

On the back burner (low priority) for now. No point in measuring something if I'm not going to change my approach. Don't have time, would rather be (need to be) printing.

Wireless Thermocouple/Thermometer how to inside Jobo Tank???? Need Tech.

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Turn your Arduino Into a Waterproof Thermometer Using DS18B20 in 4 Simple Steps!!

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