Winogrand vs. Cartier-Bresson

"What photograph is not a snapshot, still life, document, landscape, etc? Neither snapshot, document, landscape, etc. are descriptions of separate photographic aesthetics. There is only still photography with its own unique asthetic. Still photography is the distinctive term". - Garry Winogrand

haris said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't "decisive moment" term which describe that photographer press shutter on his/hers camera at moment when all parts which will make that photograph (light, composition, etc.) are, by photographers opinion, there and such as they should be. So, what is difference if at that moment pressed shutter is on Graflex, Leica, Canon, Mamiya... camera. I mean, pressing shutter at 10fps camera and hoping that atleast one of photographs will be "that" photograph is not "decisive moment" photography. As I understand "decisive moment" photography is to press shutter only once but at right time, that is at decisive moment (moment of decision when to press shutter). And shutter can be pressed once at right time on autoeverything 10fps 35mm SLR same as on MF or all manual slow shooting LF format camera.

Regards

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In a way, but there are decisive moments that can be "planned" such as a landscape and there are moments that are so ephemeral that they can only be caught by a quick eye and an even quicker camera.

Nicholas Nixon and Sally Mann (I'm particularly speaking of the "Immediate Family" period for Mann) both photographed quiet moments in 8x10. Sometimes lovely moments but they were quiet.

Cartier-Bresson and Winogrand were dynamic photographers. Cartier-Bresson waited and pounced on his subjects like a wildcat on its prey, exposing few frames. Winogrand just shot the hell out of his subjects, exposing miles of film. Both were working within the same concept, philosophy, whatever, and would never have been successful if constrained by a large format camera.

Mike, there's a lot of books out there with photos by Cartier-Bresson and Winogrand. Immerse yourself in them.

Winogrand vs HCB

Mike (s) and I were at the same Smith Chamlee workshop last month. He had, I thought, some of the best work there.

Mike L, one of my very best photographs was shot with a speed grafic out of a moving boat, and the second best was from a tripod waiting for the right dynamics.

Use your instincts-they are quite good. LF or not.

Herb

herb said:

Mike (s) and I were at the same Smith Chamlee workshop last month. He had, I thought, some of the best work there.

Mike L, one of my very best photographs was shot with a speed grafic out of a moving boat, and the second best was from a tripod waiting for the right dynamics.

Use your instincts-they are quite good. LF or not.

Herb

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Herb,

Many thanks for your kind comments. It was a pleasure meeting and talking with you at the workshop. An Austin original! Have you started your 24"x30" prints? I'd like to see some someday.

Mike

HCB and Winogrand

Good thread, insightful comments regarding both mens' work. For me it's like comparing Joe Dimaggio to Willie Mays. Each made plays that will stay forever in the memory, and if you're an aspiring baseball player there is much to be learned from both. One thing's for sure, both Joe and Willie knew the decisive moment to swing the bat! So I think the same can be said for photography: you can capture the decisive moment whether you use a Leica, Linhof, Holga, or Pinhole -- even digital!

I have tried to look at every published example of both Winogrand's and Cartier-Bresson's work. And I've gone back and studied the work over and over for years - I think it's important to do that, to let it sink in and internalize it. I've also tried to read all the criticism available on both men, as that can also teach you a lot.

Hopefully a little of their work rubbed off, as I tried to apply what I learned in my book, which you can see some samples of here .

Bill
http://www.crashburnlove.com

Isn't the "Kiss in front of ....?" a decisive moment shot in spite it was posed ?
I mean The kissers are posing but as I recall people are passing by in the image.
Cheers Søren

Mike Lopez said:

As an uninitiated student of this concept, I would like to hear your thoughts and opinions on the works of Henri Cartier-Bresson and Garry Winogrand. I don't own books by either of them Do you have a preference, and why? I have read Cartier-Bresson's introduction to The Decisive Moment, and it seems counter to Winogrand's famous statement of photographing things "to see how they look." Does this summarize everything?
Mike

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No Mike, not really . I general you should go the other way round. First study their work and get your own opinion and then discuss it with others if you like to do so.
What is written or said about photogs is not relevant in this context, their photos are relevant soley.

bertram

From a practical standpoint you will find yourself spending a great deal of money in getting some shots that you find pleasing and you will find yourself missing photos that could have easily been sucessfully taken with a 35mm.

I wish you good luck but I think that you will be bashing your photographic head against the wall of reality in the choice of equipment for the type of work you wish to do.

Cartier Bresson vs. Winogrand?

My guess:

Cartier Bresson by armbar in the first round.

Of course the title of the book The Decisive Moment was originally Images a la Sauvette - which means something rather different. Hard to translate but maybe 'images on the fly' or 'fleeting moments' or possibly even 'very quick on the eye'.

"L'Instant décisif" was only one smaller part of the book, but was chosen by the the publishers of the English edition as the snappier title. But it does rather alter the overall emphasis.

The photography of HCB is truely magnificent. The decisive moment can be predicted, and plannen if one has time. You find an interesting venue, you set up shop, get exposure details etc. and wait until what you think will happen happens, and surely it will most of the time, and because of your stanionary character you will be able to adjust to lightning conditions and range all of the time, this in order to get the right shot at the right time.

Think of HCB "man jumping over puddle shot" many people think it was composed, well it was composed in such a way that HCB was ready for it, and could shoot at the point required ....

Many good street shots are done that way, all you need is time and patience, and to try and find a stationary spot. It might take a number of days to get the shot you want, but that will be all part of the fun...

... forgot ... and then one can use huge monorails if one wishes, no specific need for rangefinders/35mm.

Jorge said:

I am not sure what you are asking. There is no virtue in using a LF camera as if it was a 35 mm camera and then think the shots are "good" simply because they were difficult to make, they rarely are.

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I think this statement is true.

However with my Littman they aren't any more difficult to make than with a 35mm. There are some differences obviously. No zoom, no 36 exposures, no concealing it under your trench coat, but then a 35mm is still a very small negative.

I'd think with a Littman or a Crown Graphic a person could easily master the large format much the same way people like WeeGee did.


Michael

Sadly,one is rarely free these days to smoke Weegee-style cigars.

You also need a big honkin flash, which makes Weegee rather unlike either HCB or Winogrand (tho Garry used flash sometimes, as in "Stock Photos" ot "Public Relations")

The question "what are you trying to acheive?" does come to mind.