Wine Preservation Spray [To Keep Chemistry Fresh]

Marco S. · Feb 21, 2006

I ran across this today, it's used to keep wine fresh:

http://www.wineenthusiast.com/E/details.asp?Ep=A/424&uid=A81BEF6F-25E6-48AF-A8DA-0FB573A33A05

Looks pretty good and affordable too. Seems to be nitrogen, a good way to keep chemistry fresh?

Marco

rhphoto · Feb 21, 2006

If I could afford wine that needed preserving, I'd think it was, er, interesting. Wine doesn't last in our house long enough to need preserving.
Just curious why you started this thread in B&W Chemistry. Is there something we should know about lengthening the life of developers? Wine toner? Merlot-hydroquinone and carbonate?

Marco S. · Feb 21, 2006

Oops. I must have been editing when you posted you response. I know some use propane, or butane to keep their developers from spoiling.

rhphoto · Feb 21, 2006

Actually, for the same reasons (sort of) that I wouldn't want to bother with preserving wine, I never got why people replenished their developer, or why one would want to make a bottle of it last for a really long time. I always have mixed one-shot developers like Rodinal, or HC110 (from the concentrate - it lasts forever) or else I go through a package of Dektol (1 Gal) in a week or less. Anyway, just seems like it's not that huge a cost to always have fresh solutions going. Just my method and opinion.

waynecrider · Feb 21, 2006

I use tank nitrogen and have kept solutions (in glass!) up to and over a year. The wine preserver is nitrogen as far as I know.

pelerin · Feb 21, 2006

MPolo said:
I ran across this today, it's used to keep wine fresh:

http://www.wineenthusiast.com/E/details.asp?Ep=A/424&uid=A81BEF6F-25E6-48AF-A8DA-0FB573A33A05

Looks pretty good and affordable too. Seems to be nitrogen, a good way to keep chemistry fresh?

Marco

Hi,
I believe the product contains Argon, not nitrogen... many years ago Ken Owen at Jobo (when there was both a Jobo and a Ken Owen employed there) related to me a story about a technolab customer who had accidently gotten a tank of argon instead of nitrogen gas. The upshot was that the first developer kept dying at a horrific rate until the switch was discovered. Apparently argon is good for wine but bad for developer, I believe this story was covered in an issue of "Jobo Quarterly" but my web search failed to turn up anything concrete. (or even virtual)
Celac.

MichaelBriggs · Feb 22, 2006

A google search with the keywords "Private Preserve Wine nitrogen" found several websites listing the ingredients as nitrogen, carbon dioxide and argon.

The Tetental product Protectan (formerly sold by Jobo in the USA) for preserving photographic solutions is a mixture of propane and butane.

Could the carbon dioxide alter the pH of a developer? Probably not of a buffered developer.

pelerin · Feb 22, 2006

MichaelBriggs said:
A google search with the keywords "Private Preserve Wine nitrogen" found several websites listing the ingredients as nitrogen, carbon dioxide and argon.

The Tetental product Protectan (formerly sold by Jobo in the USA) for preserving photographic solutions is a mixture of propane and butane.

Could the carbon dioxide alter the pH of a developer? Probably not of a buffered developer.

Hi,
In the story I mention above the culprit was not the wine preservative but rather an industrial tank of argon gas which was accidentally substituted for nitrogen in a commercial D+D machine. I would assume such a supply to be of very high purity. I can only speculate about the effect of using the wine spray on your developer and further the story was a second hand anecdote. However, Ken was a sufficiently reliable source that I would certainly test the outcome before committing the quality of my film to the results of using an argon based product to increase the life of my developer.
Celac

avandesande · Feb 22, 2006

Absolutely. If you wait long enough your ph will go down to about 5. Buffering doesn't matter, eventually the buffering ions will get used up. CO2 is about the worst thing you can expose a developer to.

MichaelBriggs said:
Could the carbon dioxide alter the pH of a developer? Probably not of a buffered developer.

PeterDendrinos · Feb 22, 2006

MPolo said:
I ran across this today, it's used to keep wine fresh:

http://www.wineenthusiast.com/E/details.asp?Ep=A/424&uid=A81BEF6F-25E6-48AF-A8DA-0FB573A33A05

Looks pretty good and affordable too. Seems to be nitrogen, a good way to keep chemistry fresh?

Marco

This is the very product i use and it works great.

Pete

dancqu · Feb 22, 2006

MPolo said:
I know some use propane, or butane to
keep their developers from spoiling.

I'm not one of them. I employ a splits method
in metering out chemistry. I've no partially full
bottles of any thing except dry chemistry.
The Polycone or Polyseal caps used are
the surest seal against air. Keep your
bottles full, your powder dry. Dan

jim appleyard · Feb 22, 2006

You could save yourself the money and get rid of another throw-away item from landfills by using glass marbles to take up the space in your chemical bottles.

BTW, are you using glass or plastic bottles. If plastic, it might not matter much as most plastics are air permeable.

TimVermont · Feb 22, 2006

There is a similar product called "Bloxygen" that I've used to keep part A of Pyrocat HD alive for more than a year.

Lee L · Feb 22, 2006

So if I use a wine preservative in my developer bottles, will my out of focus areas have better bouquet?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Lee

Gerald Koch · Feb 22, 2006

pelerin said:
Hi,
I believe the product contains Argon, not nitrogen... many years ago Ken Owen at Jobo (when there was both a Jobo and a Ken Owen employed there) related to me a story about a technolab customer who had accidently gotten a tank of argon instead of nitrogen gas. The upshot was that the first developer kept dying at a horrific rate until the switch was discovered. Apparently argon is good for wine but bad for developer

Argon is one of the noble gases (inert) and would be perfectly suitable for either wine or developer. However, it would be more expensive to use than nitrogen.

Dave Miller · Feb 22, 2006

MPolo said:
Oops. I must have been editing when you posted you response. I know some use propane, or butane to keep their developers from spoiling.

I do; but it doesn't work on wine. :confused:

Marco S. · Feb 22, 2006

jim appleyard said:
You could save yourself the money and get rid of another throw-away item from landfills by using glass marbles to take up the space in your chemical bottles.

BTW, are you using glass or plastic bottles. If plastic, it might not matter much as most plastics are air permeable.

This is true. I have been using the amber Boston rounds in 2, 4, and 8 ounce sizes with the poly-seal caps.

As you may know, It's more economical to buy chemistry in larger sizes, thus reducing plastic packaging even further and saving money. I don't go through chemistry as fast as others do. I guess I could just shoot more film!

Marco

Tom Hoskinson · Feb 22, 2006

waynecrider said:
I use tank nitrogen and have kept solutions (in glass!) up to and over a year. The wine preserver is nitrogen as far as I know.

Like man others, I drink my wine and don't attempt to preserve it.

I only use one-shot developers.

If I want to preserve my developer stock solutions (and I do) I use Propylene Glycol or Triethanolamine as the developing reagent solvent (not water).

Shmoo · Feb 22, 2006

I actually contacted the folks at Private Preserve and they referred me to a Northern California photographer who used their product to keep his chems fresh. I started to use it on my Xtol in a full gallon bottle and it seems to work pretty well. I think that as you get to the bottom half you need to shoot in more of the stuff in otherwise the surface area isn't "sealed". Also don't shake it once you put the gas in. I have a bottle of Xtol that I mixed up in July of last year and it's about down to 1/2 and is still good.

Regardless, I test film strips before I use it any way...to be on the safe side.

S

dancqu · Feb 22, 2006

MPolo said:
I have been using the amber Boston rounds in
2, 4, and 8 ounce sizes with the poly-seal caps.

... more economical to buy chemistry in larger sizes,
thus reducing plastic packaging even further and
saving money. I don't go through chemistry as
fast as others do. Marco

The 2, 4, and 8 ounce sizes are exact fractions
of a liter; 1/16, 1/8, 1/4. I mixed up one liter of a
quart of ACU-1 and it went into 4, 1/4 liter Boston
Rounds. A 1/4 liter was split into 2, 1/8 liter bottles.
A 1/8 liter was split with H2O addition into 3, 1/16
liter bottles. Ready to go for 3 rolls of film; a
bottle and water to make 1/2 liter.

I'll split, with addition of H2O, 1 of those 1/16ths into
4, 1/32 liter bottles. Those will be used for tests on
5 x 7 RC at film strength as a print developer and
it's fresh strength as a film developer. Dan

dancqu · Feb 25, 2006

MPolo said:
I have been using the amber Boston rounds
in 2, 4, and 8 ounce sizes with the
poly-seal caps. Marco

An important point has been ignored and that is
the clarity of glass Boston Rounds, amber or clear.
Of course those glass bottles have a very, very, long
life and for all those years seeing to it that they are
clean is easy. In addition it is easy to spot within
the bottle any deterioration of the contents.

There are a few types of Caps sized to fit Boston
Rounds. For long lived chemistry use the Polyseals
or Polycones. Also they are available in narrow
and wide mouth. Dan

Wine Preservation Spray [To Keep Chemistry Fresh]

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