Will we see a new medium format camera by Pentax in couple of years?

abruzzi said:

Don't forget Mamiya--the 645AFD, AFDII and AFDIII work with both film and digital backs.

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Now defunct, except as Phase One. I don't know if the old film backs work with the P1 bodies. Or if the newer digital backs work with the old Mamiya bodies.

ant! said:

I completely agree with your analysis, and you are right, Pentax 645, and even 645n are still very affordable. Even 67, though in average more expensive, can be still found for a bargain (I had seen locally sell here two for $300 CAD 1-2 years ago, but I prefered going the 645n route).

One point though: the Pentax 645Z is discontinued and "affordable" digital medium format went from Pentax to Fuji (and with this from DSLR to mirrorless). Wouldn't Pentax like to keep that niche it had alive?

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When the Pentax 645Z was introduced in 2014, it offered probably the best price-performance ratio among all digital medium-format options. And it has been quite successful in the market in the first years.
Why Pentax has not further continued in that direction? No one really knows exactly (Pentax has never commented on that topic), but my assessment is
- problems with sensor supply (new 100 MP sensors) at reasonable costs
- the success of Fujifilm's offerings in that class surprised them / they were unprepared
- the smaller dimensions of the Fujifilm and Hasselblad mirrorless models have been very positively recognised by the customers / the market (Hasselblad also has meanwhile discontinued their H DSLR system, and Phase One has moved a bit away from classic photography applications to aerial and archiving photo applications).

ant! said:

Wouldn't be a model which could do both, film and digital (if that's possible), have a good advantage over Fuji?

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Let's go 5-6 years into the future: Imagine Pentax might internally discussing entering the medium format market again, evaluating the possible options.
If I would be in charge / in responsibility I would definitely suggest to build on the legacy of the popular Pentax 645 system.
But I would avoid / remove the most significant disadvantage of the Pentax 645 line: The lack of interchangeable backs.
A new Pentax 645N-III should have interchangeable backs, because that has always been an advantage and important differentiation factor to almost all 35mm SLR camera systems (with the exception of the Rolleiflex SL 2000F, 3001 and 3003).
The competition in the MF market has also offered it.
And with that feature a potential 645N-III could also offer the option for a digital back as well.

ant! said:

But maybe the target groups for film vs. digital medium format are not enough overlapping?

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The number of photographers who are using both mediums parallel will probably be lower than the number of those using either film or digital.
But that isn't the decisive factor: With interchangeable backs Pentax would generally increase the customer basis: Three customer groups (film, digital, both) instead of only one (digital today; film in the past; maybe film in the future).

Best regards,
Henning

The most recent digital cameras released the last few years only add or improve video recording and the are few if any still features changed or expanded.

Sirius Glass said:

The most recent digital cameras released the last few years only add or improve video recording and the are few if any still features changed or expanded.

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The change from SLR to mirrorless is still significant, and happened in aps-c to medium format in half of the big brands, Nikon & Canon, only in the last years (Sony and Fuji earlier, and smaller then aps-c like MFT). Of course it's a bit matter of taste, similar like SLR vs rangefinder. And it might not change the results, but the photographer's techniques...

Perhaps Pentax 17 is a harbinger of things to come: It pays homage to Pentax systems of the past in some of it's detailing, but it's otherwise a modern camera.

Sirius Glass said:

The most recent digital cameras released the last few years only add or improve video recording and the are few if any still features changed or expanded.

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Depends. Resolution seems to have skyrocketed.

I think Pentax and Leica should co-brand like Hasselblad and Fuji. Make a true Texas Leica. Takumar lenses, body built in Japan, focal plane shutter, Leica built rangefinder. 6x9/6×6. Half a dozen lenses
Sell in Leica stores. $15k for body and lens, (includes a strap)

This might be enough to bankrupt both companies.

mshchem said:

I think Pentax and Leica should co-brand like Hasselblad and Fuji. Make a true Texas Leica. Takumar lenses, body built in Japan, focal plane shutter, Leica built rangefinder. 6x9/6×6. Half a dozen lenses
Sell in Leica stores. $15k for body and lens, (includes a strap)

This might be enough to bankrupt both companies.

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What makes a Leica so special are the lenses. Sure the design and build quality, but it is the lenses that are truly stellar. I always chuckle when I see a Leica with another manufacturer's lenses (with a few exceptions).

mshchem said:

I think Pentax and Leica should co-brand like Hasselblad and Fuji. Make a true Texas Leica. Takumar lenses, body built in Japan, focal plane shutter, Leica built rangefinder. 6x9/6×6. Half a dozen lenses
Sell in Leica stores. $15k for body and lens, (includes a strap)

This might be enough to bankrupt both companies.

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Pieter12 said:

What makes a Leica so special are the lenses. Sure the design and build quality, but it is the lenses that are truly stellar. I always chuckle when I see a Leica with another manufacturer's lenses (with a few exceptions).

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I must have written it somewhere, perhaps earlier in this thread, that a "missing link" on the heydays of film would be a Leica Medium format RF. What inspired Mamiya 6 and 7 to be, but actually Leitz Wetzlar made.
Well, or why not actually another Fujiblad Texas Leica.

Henning brings a really valuable discussion about the 645's. It would be interesting to see data about the use of the different medium format factors (645 vs 6x6 vs 6x7 and larger). Some high performing medium format cameras got the high prices seemingly due to demand as well.

Just as an aside, I happened by the Leica store in Manhattan yesterday and it was packed with shoppers. All sorts of folks were handling the cameras and discussing specifications and lens options. I also noticed dozens of Leicas hanging from people's necks in the street. Of course, Manhattan isn't typical, with rents running at $6000 a month, but the demand is clearly there.

Sirius Glass said:

The most recent digital cameras released the last few years only add or improve video recording and the are few if any still features changed or expanded.

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Well, in the last 4-8 years we've seen very significant improvements in the AF performance, both in the DSLR camera class, and the DSLM / EVIL camera class.
I agree that the pure sensor performance has not improved very much in the last decade, though. Only relatively low, often not significant improvements. In a blind test most photographers will probably fail to tell whether the image is from an in 2014 introduced digital camera, or from an in 2024 introduced camera (both from the same camera class, e.g. the most widespread 24 MP class).

Best regards,
Henning

Prest_400 said:

Henning brings a really valuable discussion about the 645's. It would be interesting to see data about the use of the different medium format factors (645 vs 6x6 vs 6x7 and larger).

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Your wish is my command :
In the last 45-50 years the 4.5x6 and 6x6 medium format cameras have been the most popular and best selling ones. To differentiate between the two is very difficult, as lots of the modular designed 6x6 cameras with interchangeable backs were also offered with 4.5x6 backs as an additional option. A siginificant number of photographers used both 4.5x6 and 6x6 with the same cameras.

6x7 followed in popularity. Lower, but significant demand. There has been a demand increase some years ago, because lots of film youtubers had discovered 6x7 for their work and promoted the cameras on their channels (especially Mamiya 7 / 7 II, the Pentax 67 models, Mamiya RB and RZ 67 models).
But that demand also has decreased recently because of the price increases for film, and the huge price increases for these cameras on the used market.

Prest_400 said:

Some high performing medium format cameras got the high prices seemingly due to demand as well.

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Correct. But it is in these cases often not only the demand, but also the fact that lots of these models have been only produced in quite limited, often very low numbers. So a relatively high demand meets a very low supply, and that results in very high prices. The Mamiya 7 II is the perfect example for that, the Fujifilm GF 670 / Voigtländer Bessa III as well.

Best regards,
Henning

Arthurwg said:

Just as an aside, I happened by the Leica store in Manhattan yesterday and it was packed with shoppers. All sorts of folks were handling the cameras and discussing specifications and lens options. I also noticed dozens of Leicas hanging from people's necks in the street. Of course, Manhattan isn't typical, with rents running at $6000 a month, but the demand is clearly there.

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Yes, the demand is indeed there:
In 2012 Leica had a revenue of a bit more than 90 million Euros. Last year they had a revenue of about 500 million Euros.
More than 5x more revenue (!) in a bit more than a decade.
So in a decade in which several much bigger digital camera manufacturers left the market (e.g. Samsung, Olympus, Casio; lots of big OEM manufacturers for digital compact cameras), and in which all remaining digital camera munfacturers scaled down production significantly, closed factories, and had significantly decreasing revenues, Leica has been the only one who has very successfully grown their business.
An impressive performance in an extremely difficult market. So they must have done something right......

Best regards,
Henning

I love that Leica persists. I didn't need another camera, but I bought a new M6. I don't have an expensive car and live in a not terribly expensive place. So I bought a Leica I didn't need and a few years ago I bought a Jobo CPP3 that I didn't need.
These things are a joy to use. I appreciate the people who work to build this machinery!