Will there ever be another photographic movement?

Mike Shea · Feb 5, 2020

"Most "landscape" and "street" photography has always seemed derivative and redundant to me so my own efforts have been intentional, even planned. I think that attitude/approach is characteristic of commercial photographers, not amateurs. As a former commercial photographer I suspect that my peers put more energy into experimentation than into Photrio-style categories...few were into decorative images."

jtk, I agree - while I still appreciate and admire good street and landscape photography I have difficulty in moving myself to shoot as I once did as an aspiring professional (both in quantity and asthetic) simply because of it's derivative nature, as you said.

Having stepped away the aspect that brought me back is precisely the desire to create an image in print rather than merely "capture" the world in print.

I was thinking of Salgado's "Workers" or "Migrations" series or anything in National Geography (etc) and how the thematic aspect of journalistic work is so important - but that isn't really movement. It's part politics and craft. I love seeing the world where I am not and like so many others I will always be drawn to photographs in this category and think it is necessary. I just don't want to make these images.

I'm just excited to experiment again for the first time.

The technic of the craft will drive the product which binds the practitioners by method, but because it is so mechanically bound I wonder if artistic "movement" is possible in this way.

DF · Feb 5, 2020

I posted a thread not-too-long-ago on how "Arts" organizations need to take a half-step back and recognize film - yes, FILM (where you first look then shoot) as a separate and distinct medium from that other one (where you first shoot then look) .
Of course I got the usual nauseating rigamoroll on how "oh It's not the medium - it's the final product...&^%$#@!...."

jtk · Feb 5, 2020

DF said:
I posted a thread not-too-long-ago on how "Arts" organizations need to take a half-step back and recognize film - yes, FILM (where you first look then shoot) as a separate and distinct medium from that other one (where you first shoot then look) .
Of course I got the usual nauseating rigamoroll on how "oh It's not the medium - it's the final product...&^%$#@!...."

You're not even trying to make a coherent case.

What do you think a "movement" is?

The OT here is "movement"... not similar to "medium".

AgX · Feb 6, 2020

I think DF meas that going back to film as such is a movement, in the meaning of "Zen of photography".

jtk · Feb 6, 2020

AgX said:
I think DF meas that going back to film as such is a movement, in the meaning of "Zen of photography".

The Zen answer might be "no movement. "

faberryman · Feb 6, 2020

DF said:
I posted a thread not-too-long-ago on how "Arts" organizations need to take a half-step back and recognize film - yes, FILM (where you first look then shoot) as a separate and distinct medium from that other one (where you first shoot then look) .
Of course I got the usual nauseating rigamoroll on how "oh It's not the medium - it's the final product...&^%$#@!...."

You shouldn't get extra credit if your boring photos are shot on film.

John Koehrer · Feb 8, 2020

Just needs the "name" critic/curator to name it.
Doesn't matter what it is, it's "artspeak"

jtk · Mar 10, 2020

Photography lost when it became cameras.

removed account4 · Mar 10, 2020

jtk said:
Photography lost when it became cameras.

Interesting perspective ! Do you mean when it was cameraless ( photograms lie Anna Atkins )
and man ray, maholy.-Nagy, kirilian photography, Darwin ( no one knows or talks about ) &c ...
or do you mean something else......

jtk · Mar 11, 2020

jnantz said:
Interesting perspective ! Do you mean when it was cameraless ( photograms lie Anna Atkins )
and man ray, maholy.-Nagy, kirilian photography, Darwin ( no one knows or talks about ) &c ...
or do you mean something else......

Yes...cameras get in the way of photography. They are items to possess more than to use...if used they are mostly diversions, assuming the user actually has some sort of image in mind, or imagines he's doing something creative. I've been looking at myself in this context.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 11, 2020

I think the current "movement" that hasn't been named/labeled yet is the "Graphic Arts" movement, where photography has transformed into something away from literal and even interpretive into something that barely begins with a photographic image and ends up somewhere very different - not a painting, not an illustration, not an abstract or a montage or collage in the way we think of them traditionally but something else. And certainly as the Photo Secession and Modernism were a reaction against Pictorialism, there is a growing reaction against the Graphic Arts movement where photographers are defining themselves as "pure" photographers who work only in traditional chemical photographic techniques, often using historical/handmade processes and materials. It remains to be seen if this is a genuine movement in counter to Graphic Arts, or if it is merely the contortions of luddites.

onkeltuka · May 15, 2020

Isn't Lomography more of a business model than art movement?

ChristopherCoy · May 15, 2020

Anyone ever thought about the fact that we could technically be part of "a movement" right now?

100 years from now, people will talk about the "anti-digital", or "back to basics" movement. Photographers who refused technology, preferring methods of photography that came about even before they did. They'll talk about "film photographers who survived Y2K" as if it were Stiegletz, Steichen, and Weston all over again.

KenS · May 17, 2020

What REALLY got 'under my skin' when trying to get through my photography 'advanced studio' course was trying to answer to the "what does it mean?" question....to which I always responded with "what do YOU see?'. Why does it always have to have a "meaning".. to this day I have not (as yet, anyway) always found meaning' in a well seen, well composed, well made landscape image.

Ken

radiant · May 17, 2020

KenS said:
What REALLY got 'under my skin' when trying to get through my photography 'advanced studio' course was trying to answer to the "what does it mean?" question....to which I always responded with "what do YOU see?'. Why does it always have to have a "meaning".. to this day I have not (as yet, anyway) always found meaning' in a well seen, well composed, well made landscape image.

Ken

Good point. I think the "meaning" is very broad word when it is used in that sentence. I believe question is "why does this photo exist?". And the answer isn't "someone shot it". On landscape the answer might be "it looks beautiful and interesting" or "it makes me happy and free". Then you know it has meaning.

blockend · May 18, 2020

TheFlyingCamera said:
I think the current "movement" that hasn't been named/labeled yet is the "Graphic Arts" movement, where photography has transformed into something away from literal and even interpretive into something that barely begins with a photographic image and ends up somewhere very different - not a painting, not an illustration, not an abstract or a montage or collage in the way we think of them traditionally but something else.

I think you're right. Photography has long been at the service of commerce. Now people seek to ape commercial mores when there's no financial imperative to do so. Professional has become the buzz word among the 99% who aren't pros. Money is still at the heart of it, but it's at the front end, camera manufacturers and their shills convincing everyone they need gear to emulate a well equipped studio if they're "serious".

This is sustained by memes like Real Photographer's Shoot Raw, the cult of shadow and highlight detail and wafer thin planes of focus. The digital file has become a blank canvas on which to write wet dreams. In that context film photography represents a kind of purity, and with any puritanism there comes zealotry. We don't typically want to give our subjects the eyes of a jaguar or make suburban skies look apocalyptic, remove lamp posts or turn our family members chromium.

The term movement suggests something philosophical. In one sense all film photography is reactionary, a craft skills in an age of ruthless impermanence.

radiant · May 18, 2020

blockend said:
This is sustained by memes like Real Photographer's Shoot Raw, the cult of shadow and highlight detail and wafer thin planes of focus. The digital file has become a blank canvas on which to write wet dreams. In that context film photography represents a kind of purity, and with any puritanism there comes zealotry. We don't typically want to give our subjects the eyes of a jaguar or make suburban skies look apocalyptic, remove lamp posts or turn our family members chromium.

The term movement suggests something philosophical. In one sense all film photography is reactionary, a craft skills in an age of ruthless impermanence.

Woah, what a beautiful writing.

warden · May 18, 2020

blockend said:
I think you're right. Photography has long been at the service of commerce. Now people seek to ape commercial mores when there's no financial imperative to do so. Professional has become the buzz word among the 99% who aren't pros. Money is still at the heart of it, but it's at the front end, camera manufacturers and their shills convincing everyone they need gear to emulate a well equipped studio if they're "serious".

This is sustained by memes like Real Photographer's Shoot Raw, the cult of shadow and highlight detail and wafer thin planes of focus. The digital file has become a blank canvas on which to write wet dreams. In that context film photography represents a kind of purity, and with any puritanism there comes zealotry. We don't typically want to give our subjects the eyes of a jaguar or make suburban skies look apocalyptic, remove lamp posts or turn our family members chromium.

The term movement suggests something philosophical. In one sense all film photography is reactionary, a craft skills in an age of ruthless impermanence.

Very well said. Thank you.

DREW WILEY · May 18, 2020

Just like bowel movements. They're inevitable and really not all that different. Most stink too.

MartinCrabtree · May 18, 2020

Sure there will be new movements. Problem is these days they last only until something else catches the interest. Attention span non existent.

ts1000 · May 22, 2020

I think self-documenting one's daily routine, will become a thing.

Folks will create stories, compare narratives (across continents) using same timeline/timestamp,
build out their own, unique story-telling profiles.

Today we are lacking the hardware, the software ecosystem, and the behavioral changes to make the above work.

But I think it will happen, and for a portion of the population it will be a 'movement'.
May be it will be called something like 'daysRus' or something... just speculating.

Photography will be overlaid with 'audio narrative'

There will be 'artistic excursions' may be even using film or other analog media,

Those excursions will be called 'moods' (again, just coming up with this as I type .. and they will present a way for an individual to express moods rather than externally visible facts.

So that's my thinking (I have been thinking about this for a couple of years too)
I just joined the forum, and I like the question

By the way, for film to be part of the above, there need to be different chemical composition/formulations that allow for more flexible (and easier, and more robust) result development (and it should e integreateable, optionally into digital workflow... I think this takepicture->process->scan->save->print-on-paper process is not going to survive much longer.. but I think some form of 'unique analog capture of the analog and emotional worlds' will need to be there...

radiant · May 23, 2020

ts1000 said:
Folks will create stories, compare narratives (across continents) using same timeline/timestamp,
build out their own, unique story-telling profiles.

This was interesting post (and welcome to the rabbit hole aka photrio..)

I think the narrative style has already in action; for example people send quite lengthy voice/video mesages to friends telling about day or some happening. Add photos to this and we are close to your idea.

Actually this touches me a bit, because I started to publish photos as videos in youtube as a slide show. I have a feeling that the constant scrolling of IG or other social media platform is stressful and maybe the future is well-thought slide show. I've added music to background but maybe I have to try narrative style too. Also I want people to concentrate when watching my photos; you cannot scroll or skip the photos (yeah you can fwd the video but why would you do that..). Maybe my idea is also a statement; either you watch it completely or don't watch it. I wish there was a platform that you couldn't fwd/rewind/etc. like a stream that you can start but that's it. I know this is provocative but it is maybe part of the my "art" aspect.

ts1000 said:
Today we are lacking the hardware, the software ecosystem, and the behavioral changes to make the above work.

What kind of hardware do you have in mind if it doesn't exist yet?

ts1000 said:
Those excursions will be called 'moods' (again, just coming up with this as I type .. and they will present a way for an individual to express moods rather than externally visible facts.

Can you open this up, it is interesting idea but I cannot fully get it. I'm totally interested in represting moods.

warden · May 23, 2020

ts1000 said:
So that's my thinking (I have been thinking about this for a couple of years too)
I just joined the forum, and I like the question

Welcome! And great first post.

removed account4 · May 23, 2020

jawarden said:
Welcome! And great first post.

+1. !
Glad you found us
John

ts1000 · May 24, 2020

Thank you for the welcomes

With regards to hardware: I do not think there are exist (or widely used) adequate solutions for self-documenting.
I personally find distorted faces produced by today's selfies -- simply bad. I would not want to look at these things 200 years from now...
I would like to see real geometries.
I am ok with distortions when it is an intended part of expression, but not when it is a limitation of technology.
Also it is not easy (or often possible) to do compositions.

Old days there was a tripod+self-timer. This needs to improve in 21st century, and what I see today is not it.
There can be a lot of innovation in this area, I am just surprised that SLR manufactures are so not-inventive in this area.
I have several thoughts on this, of course, but not developed enough to share...

With regards to expressing moods.
I will have to leave it to ones imagination at the moment.
Overtime, may be I will publish more thoughts about it, but I think
https://www.photopathway.com/expressing-emotions-through-photography/
is a good start.
In movie industry moods via colour, is sometimes called 'color correction'.
Eg:
https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/color-grading-vs-color-correction-process/
Techniques to do this with analog medium, and especially during the initial picture taking (rather than in post processing) -- is hard, but also makes the results unique (as in non-reproducible), and, therefore, more valuable (in my view).

While slide shows with background music is a doable angle, I do not think of that style of presentation (and youtube overall) as a very expressive medium.
Again, because it does not, in my view, translates artistic intent of the creative authors.

I will also mention, that personally, I am not a creative artist -- I am more of 'eco-systems inventor/thinker' type of person.
So while it is easy for me to think these things up, if you ask me to take a good photograph -- I will fail miserably.
In that way, I am much less 'visual' thinker, than most people who do photography for fun or profit...

I just like the mechanics of photography and its expressiveness.

vedostuu said:
This was interesting post (and welcome to the rabbit hole aka photrio..)

I think the narrative style has already in action; for example people send quite lengthy voice/video mesages to friends telling about day or some happening. Add photos to this and we are close to your idea.

Actually this touches me a bit, because I started to publish photos as videos in youtube as a slide show. I have a feeling that the constant scrolling of IG or other social media platform is stressful and maybe the future is well-thought slide show. I've added music to background but maybe I have to try narrative style too. Also I want people to concentrate when watching my photos; you cannot scroll or skip the photos (yeah you can fwd the video but why would you do that..). Maybe my idea is also a statement; either you watch it completely or don't watch it. I wish there was a platform that you couldn't fwd/rewind/etc. like a stream that you can start but that's it. I know this is provocative but it is maybe part of the my "art" aspect.

What kind of hardware do you have in mind if it doesn't exist yet?

Can you open this up, it is interesting idea but I cannot fully get it. I'm totally interested in represting moods.

Will there ever be another photographic movement?

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