Will running E6 through a minilab mess anything up?

BetterSense · Aug 5, 2009

I want to try running a roll of E6 through C41 because I heard you get some interesting negatives this way. I don't want to mess up my local minilab's machines and have them ban me or anything, though. Will it contaminate the chemistry for other users?

Ektagraphic · Aug 5, 2009

I don't think it will, but if you go to a place like CVS or WalMart they probably won't cross process because they won't understand it.

Photo Engineer · Aug 5, 2009

It will not hurt it, but as Ektagraphic says, it may be rejected by the lab out of fear, uncertainty and doubt.

PE

mabman · Aug 6, 2009

Check your lab's policy first. I've found some minilabs locally won't process anything that doesn't have "C-41" explicitly printed on the film canister, some will want to charge you extra for "cross-processing" (even though they're not doing anything they wouldn't normally do, and no damage is incurred), and some (usually the more knowledgable or possibly the most lazy) won't care.

Tim Gray · Aug 6, 2009

I know some won't process C-41 B&W film like BW400CN.

ntenny · Aug 6, 2009

Not to reawaken a discussion that got ugly, but I'm now confused about the technical photographic aspects. Didn't some of our well-informed members express their concern, in another thread, that an E-6 film should not be relabelled as C-41 to aid cross-processing, precisely because it could have some effects on the processing lab that would make them want to handle cross-processing separately from "true" C-41 films?

-NT

bob100684 · Aug 6, 2009

ntenny said:
Not to reawaken a discussion that got ugly, but I'm now confused about the technical photographic aspects. Didn't some of our well-informed members express their concern, in another thread, that an E-6 film should not be relabelled as C-41 to aid cross-processing, precisely because it could have some effects on the processing lab that would make them want to handle cross-processing separately from "true" C-41 films?

-NT

Something sticks in my head that a fuji rep once told me something on the order of 5-10% of daily throughput could be e-6 crossed in c-41 without harm to chemistry, beyond that and it has some effect. If this is true, then it is important for the lab to know simply to keep track of how much they have crossed in a day.

dmr · Aug 6, 2009

I cross-processed a roll of Sensia by taking it to Walgreens, ordering a DO, and playing dumb. They didn't even question it. Got back the sleeved negatives, sans amber mask, of course.

BetterSense · Aug 6, 2009

I'm about 90% certain if I kept my mouth shut, that they would run it through. One of them told me about a lady that brought black and white film in and it developed perfectly clear, mysteriously. I don't know if they even know there are different film processes.

Robert Brummitt · Aug 6, 2009

We ran lots of cross process film went I was in a commercial lab. The only issue was sometimes it "Freaked" the technician who pulled the film from the dryer if he or she didn't know what was going on. They would run to the supervisor with panic on their face.
Once we ran 15 rolls of 120 in one run. Never saw any changes in our charts or test strips. I would suggest you find a commercial lab in your area or neighbor city. Call and explain what you are doing.
I think you can also process your film yourself to? I recall a fellow who did accelerated E-6. He processed his film in a very strong B&W devo then take the film in our E-6 dip and dunk line and place the film in the color tank to finish the process. What he got was a super grainy, high polarized images. It was fun but I'm not suggesting this for you.
Look and call your local commercial lab.

Photo Engineer · Aug 6, 2009

ntenny said:
Not to reawaken a discussion that got ugly, but I'm now confused about the technical photographic aspects. Didn't some of our well-informed members express their concern, in another thread, that an E-6 film should not be relabelled as C-41 to aid cross-processing, precisely because it could have some effects on the processing lab that would make them want to handle cross-processing separately from "true" C-41 films?

-NT

This thread I believe, referred to motion picture film cross processed in anything but the motion picture process chemistry. It will ruin the chemicals by leaving behind a residue of Rem-Jet.

So, don't try any cross processing with motion picture films.

PE

fschifano · Aug 6, 2009

Tim Gray said:
I know some won't process C-41 B&W film like BW400CN.

Yes, I've had that happen to me too. Then I pointed out the "process C-41" label on the canister and it still made no difference to the operator. Gave up, and moved on.

srs5694 · Aug 6, 2009

BetterSense said:
I'm about 90% certain if I kept my mouth shut, that they would run it through. One of them told me about a lady that brought black and white film in and it developed perfectly clear, mysteriously. I don't know if they even know there are different film processes.

Precisely this happened to me a few years back. I hadn't shot much film in about 3-4 years, and I took a roll of Ilford B&W (I think it was HP5+) to my local CVS, prepared to send it out. The clerk swore up and down that they could do B&W in their 1-hour machine, so I figured there'd been some improvements in minilab technology since I'd last used one, and I let them do it. When I came back, they had the nerve to claim my camera was defective!

Needless to say, I haven't used that CVS for photofinishing since then!

Tim Gray · Aug 6, 2009

fschifano said:
Yes, I've had that happen to me too. Then I pointed out the "process C-41" label on the canister and it still made no difference to the operator. Gave up, and moved on.

Haha yeah. It wasn't worth the discussion.

ozphoto · Aug 6, 2009

I used to run E6 through the lab I managed quite often as most other places wouldn't do it. I even promoted it to the local college and that saw a huge increase in processing for about 6 months.

One of the previous posters is correct when they said "they probably won't understand", so it may take a bit of time to find one that is happy to do it. Maybe even offer to sign paperwork to alleviate their pain. They could just be concerned you are going to cause trouble due to the fact it won't "look correct" once it has gone through the C41 process.

It won't affect their chemicals or their processor, it just won't look like "normal" E6 film and they could be all they are concerned about.

hoffy · Aug 6, 2009

I back up the "Just ask" comments. My local mini lab will Cross process no problems. The owner told me he does it regularly and it is not a problem (that being said, its an owner operator lab.)

srs5694 · Aug 7, 2009

ozphoto said:
They could just be concerned you are going to cause trouble due to the fact it won't "look correct" once it has gone through the C41 process.

I wonder if something similar to, but importantly different than, this may be at least part of the reason for the widespread belief that cross-processing E-6 in a C-41 machine will damage the chemicals. Specifically, because the resulting prints from the slide film's negatives don't look "right," the owners/operators may think their chemistry's been messed up. If said owner/operator immediately shuts down the machine and replaces the chemicals in order to avoid problems, that'll solidify the idea that the slide film did actual harm. The next roll (of C-41 film, of course) through the machine will have normal colors. If my hypothesis is right, several common cognitive errors, such as confirmation bias, are going on in the owner's/operator's head. The result could be a powerful but incorrect belief.

Of course, there could be other factors, like exaggeration of legitimate concerns, heard via word of mouth or in publications. about shifts when doing heavy amounts of E-6; or confusion of ECN-2 film with E-6 film.

AgX · Aug 7, 2009

ntenny said:
Didn't some of our well-informed members express their concern, in another thread, that an E-6 film should not be relabelled as C-41 to aid cross-processing, precisely because it could have some effects on the processing lab that would make them want to handle cross-processing separately from "true" C-41 films?

see:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(Not a minilab though, but a dip-and-dunk machine.)

2F/2F · Aug 7, 2009

Kodak states that more than 5% volume of C-41 film in E-6 chemistry can affect the results with E-6 film.

However, the other way around is totally safe, from what I have heard from P.E. on this Website.

I have done cross processing at several local CVS and Rite Aid stores by simply explaining to them that I am after a special effect. It has helped me several times to say (truthfully) that another location in the chain had done it for me.

2F/2F · Aug 7, 2009

ntenny said:
Not to reawaken a discussion that got ugly, but I'm now confused about the technical photographic aspects. Didn't some of our well-informed members express their concern, in another thread, that an E-6 film should not be relabelled as C-41 to aid cross-processing, precisely because it could have some effects on the processing lab that would make them want to handle cross-processing separately from "true" C-41 films?

-NT

I don't consider myself a well-informed member, but if you are referring to the Rollei Crossbird discussion, I never said that it would affect labs' chemistry. I said I thought it was unethical, though chemically harmless, to relabel the film. "A harmless lie for the labs' chemistry, but a lie nonetheless", is a cut-and-pasted example of one way that I put it.

Ross Chambers · Aug 7, 2009

Photo Engineer said:
This thread I believe, referred to motion picture film cross processed in anything but the motion picture process chemistry. It will ruin the chemicals by leaving behind a residue of Rem-Jet.

So, don't try any cross processing with motion picture films.

PE

It did happen in a lab in New Zealand when I worked there as a film editor. The DOP on a motion picture threw a couple of rolls of C41 from a still camera in with the rushes ("dailies" to you Yanks) and screwed up their chemistry. Not a small matter when the lab works at such a large scale.

Regards - Ross

Photo Engineer · Aug 7, 2009

I have never heard of C-41 messing up the ECN process. It will mess up the ECP process due to the vast differences in emulsions.

So, I'm surprised at a first. Or, something else may have taken place.

IDK.

PE

BetterSense · Aug 7, 2009

Is it advisable to change EI or use color filtration when shooting E6 film specifically for the purpose of cross-processing it?

CuS · Aug 8, 2009

I tend to under expose

BetterSense said:
Is it advisable to change EI or use color filtration when shooting E6 film specifically for the purpose of cross-processing it?

I ususally underexpose by a 1/2 stop when XPROing E6 films in C-41 - it helps control blown highlights in my experience.

I found this particularly effective shooting some expired (1995) Ektachrome dupe film (rated iso 25) - but shooting it at 50 seemed better.

BetterSense · Aug 8, 2009

I just got my first roll of expired E6 back from Target. The pictures are all extremely green/yellow tinted. Does this tell me anything about if the film is any good for normal slide processing? I was going to go ahead and roll up the whole bulk roll in canisters, but now I'm worried it's no good.

Will running E6 through a minilab mess anything up?

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