Will Ilford Sheet Film ever get edge markings?

An APUG member recently posted a full scan of a beautiful transparency made by fuji, I didn't have to try and discern the notch code, because it says plainly "FUJI" on the edge markings. All my Fuji has that, so do my Kodak sheet film, but my favorite company is Ilford, yet they don't have any edge markings on their sheet film, not only is it helpful to the user who doesn't want to memorize a gazillion notch codes, nor remember 5 years ago which film he was using when looking through the "archives" but also that it would be good advertising for Ilford to have their name on their own sheet film. Especially with many people posting the whole frame of the film (including the holder indented exposure) on the web to "prove" it's film, there's an interest in this kind of thing on places like Instagram, Tumblr, Facebook, Twitter, etc etc, to have the film info in the image itself.

I did search and found no info on why this is so. Does anyone know? Will they ever do it?

I did find a thread about Ilford acquiring an edge marking machine from 2008, but it was just about how Ilford should write funny sayings on their film like "Oh good you didn't mess up this exposure" or "Man I wish I had been born an 8x10 sheet of film" and/or batch number info or expiry date info etc, but not specifically about sheet film edge markings. Simon?

Thanks!

I hope not.

Ian

I'd rather not have edge markings. Sometimes it's nice to do a alt process print "full bleed" style which requires the edges of the film in the print. Kodak's not too obtrusive with their 4x5, but none would be better.

I've settled on using two films in LF so I think I can handle two notch codes.

As you've suggested, better advertising would be fake film borders that say Ilford. They could probably prop up some freebie app store / itunes photo apps with name placement in film borders.

Afraid I prefer not.

I don't have any problem with my archives - if necessary I just check the negative number against my negative log, where the film type is recorded. But it's hardly ever necessary: probably > 90% of the sheet film I've ever used is HP5 Plus. And when I contact print and choose to display the picture with full margins, I'd just as soon it not be an advertisement.

Ian Grant said:

I hope not.

Ian

Click to expand...

I also hope not!!! Film positioning in the holder can sometimes push markings into the image area and for contact printers those markings can be a major distraction in black print margins.

It's simple enough to write in the margins after the fact if you so desire. A search here will yield suggestions of various pens and such.

Hmmm, I hadn't thought of the alt process stuff, or contact, but I've never seen the markings get into the picture, even using my Grafmatic holders. They could keep it next to the notch codes where you would be masking anyway couldn't they?

As long as they didn't face it backward or anything it would be pleasing to see (to me) and show my Ilford pride, I don't like advertising products I don't want to advertise so I get that. But of all things film needs our support, and before I got heavily into film, I had never even heard of Ilford... I knew about Kodak and Fuji from the grocery store, but never saw Ilford, and then at first when I saw some in the "local" film shop (the only one in the state that's a real lab/photo equipment store) I saw "Made in England" and was like... ewww not sure I want that, it's not Kodak, is it any good? and the clerk said it was the only 50ASA film they had, I wanted to use this kodak folder I had gotten at a yard sale, and after some googling figured out that to follow the right exposures on the front (shade, sunny etc) I needed a slow film to match the film at the time, which was 25-50ASA film, so that's what I asked for, I reluctantly took it, not knowing I had stumbled upon the best film of all! PanF+!!! But anyway, my point is, if you're just starting out, you've probably never heard of Ilford if you live in the USA, at least around me there's only one store that sells Ilford in my entire state!

...and edge markings on sheet film would change that?

If you print B&W film, you know of Ilford in the US, since Kodak hasn't made B&W paper for quite a while, and good B&W paper for even longer than that.

"Made in England" isn't a good thing unless you're talking beer and booze or Ilford film/paper. Many of us have heard all too many stories/jokes of British Leyland / BMC / Lucas electronics.

I don't mask most of my alt process prints. I just slap the negative down, make sure it's right side up, aligned, and expose a print. The handmade nature of it is why I do it. If I wanted a perfectly neat alt process print, I'd fake it in photoshop.

I remember a time at a country pub in England where the locals sneered at us for drinking local beer. They were much more sophisticated than that... prefering to drink "Import" beer: Bud and Coors.

Re: edge markings on sheet film... why mess with tradition? There are only a few films left anyway; a far cry from the "gazillions" of notch codes feard in earlier posts.

jp498 said:

"Made in England" isn't a good thing unless you're talking beer and booze or Ilford film/paper. Many of us have heard all too many stories/jokes of British Leyland / BMC / Lucas electronics.

Click to expand...

I have an Austin 1300 GT (British Leyland), British cameras- a Houghton Duchess, Ensign 820, MPP Microcord plus many others reflex and field. All excellent products we make the best in the world here inc Ilford products

Ian

StoneNYC said:

…memorize a gazillion notch codes, nor remember 5 years ago which film he was using when looking through the "archives" but also that it would be good advertising for Ilford to have their name on their own sheet film. Especially with many people posting the whole frame of the film (including the holder indented exposure) on the web to "prove" it's film, Simon?

Click to expand...

Just you wait until you are a few aeons older and your memory goes.
Ilford have cut back on glossy.
Do you want to pay more or less?
The way the UK copyright laws seem to be changing no one is going to post any images anyway.

jp498 said:

If you print B&W film, you know of Ilford in the US, since Kodak hasn't made B&W paper for quite a while, and good B&W paper for even longer than that.

"Made in England" isn't a good thing unless you're talking beer and booze or Ilford film/paper. Many of us have heard all too many stories/jokes of British Leyland / BMC / Lucas electronics.

I don't mask most of my alt process prints. I just slap the negative down, make sure it's right side up, aligned, and expose a print. The handmade nature of it is why I do it. If I wanted a perfectly neat alt process print, I'd fake it in photoshop.

Click to expand...

I don't print, never have, someday hopefully, but I've been shooting film for 20 years, always sent out my KODAK as a kid to the local lab (Walgreens).

To the other poster who asked of markings on film would change things, YES.
You have to remember, that film isn't just about us the people who already know about it, keeping film alive is about getting new blood into the system, that means attracting the attention of younger people, you can't do that the same way that you got attracted to film because it's a different environment now, kids don't get their information from advertisements about film in magazines. The only place they would even see anything about film at all, would be either in some urban outfitters store by Lomography, or through images on Instagram (like twitter but with pictures only, if you don't know what twitter is, imagine JUST the Facebook "wall" and JUST pictures, if you don't know what that is, you probably won't believe me anyway). So in order to get new people using film in general you have to make sure that the people posting know what you're posting, if you post a contact print looking image, it says Kodak or Fuji, people are familiar with these names, because they sell other products Fujis sells all types of digital cameras amd other electronics and Kodak sells printers and cameras and there's a lot of it around in the local stores here in America, and they sponsored the Olympics for years, and you see that bright yellow and red sign in Times Square, but you don't really see a ilford brand anywhere else but film.

So if you're really new to film, you wouldn't really recognize it in anyway, this is what I'm talking about, but if you start seeing lots of images of scanned or contact printed sheet film with the words Ilford on it, it starts to sink in to a new generation.

It's a strange world out there....

I'm with the "no edge markings, please" crowd. I want to reserve my right to do contact process stuff as well as enlarger print. I'm also not as bad about trying anything and everything that's out there with 4x5. With 120 and 35mm it's more important 'cause I might look at a neg from 10 years ago and not be able to tell what it was if not for the edge markings. But in 4x5, I use just two (and might someday add a third) and can easily look up which is which. I shot a sheet or two that did have edge markings when I was first starting out and it annoyed me to have that distracting element in a cyanotype.

Guess the alt process crowd wins... *sigh*

jp498 said:

...Many of us have heard all too many stories/jokes of...Lucas electronics...

Click to expand...

My favorite:

StoneNYC said:

Guess the alt process crowd wins... *sigh*

Click to expand...

No, we all "win." HARMAN doesn't need to expend effort/funds adding a sheet film edge marking machine (capital expense) or add time / energy / production time / maintenance to its manufacturing recurring costs for no reason. The notch codes uniquely identify each film type. Edge printing adds nothing. On roll film, edge printing is usually necessary to identify film type, so it's worthwhile there.

Sal Santamaura said:

...No, we all "win." HARMAN doesn't need to expend effort/funds adding a sheet film edge marking machine (capital expense) or add time / energy / production time / maintenance to its manufacturing recurring costs for no reason. The notch codes uniquely identify each film type. Edge printing adds nothing. On roll film, edge printing is usually necessary to identify film type, so it's worthwhile there.

Click to expand...

Old school thinking...

Penny Wise, pound foolish, perpetual and relatively free advertising is never a waste of money...

Michael R 1974 said:

Dammit Stone, why don't you make a useful request, like asking Kodak to get rid of the gloss on the TMax emulsions!

Click to expand...

Haha it doesn't bother me? Why don't you like it? I PREFER the non gloss, but only aesthetically does it bug me.

If you don't like it you should buy into my special 4x5 order of Eastman Double-X, kodak said yes (for a price) and we are 18 boxes away from production.

If alt-process would really win, then Kodak would not put a UV blocking layer into their tmax100 film.

I print almost exclusively in Palladium. If I want my print to say Ilford, I'll take a picture of the box the film came in. I would have to look for another film if they added edge markings.

No thanks. I prefer no text on the edges. Sometimes the type does intrude. Code notches aren't hard to deal with and you don't need to memorize them, the info is readily available. Take notes, paper is cheap.

StoneNYC said:

Haha it doesn't bother me? Why don't you like it? I PREFER the non gloss, but only aesthetically does it bug me.

Click to expand...

If you were a printer it would bug you...


On a similar note... I wonder why makers of painters canvas don't print their name on the front edge...? It'd be good advertising wouldn't it?

Shawn Dougherty said:

If you were a printer it would bug you...


On a similar note... I wonder why makers of painters canvas don't print their name on the front edge...? It'd be good advertising wouldn't it?

Click to expand...

They should put it on the back though, which is essentially what the edge is for film, where you don't print, because you don't expose that area...

Then again I like my grafmatics to still contain the number thing.

StoneNYC said:

They should put it on the back though, which is essentially what the edge is for film, where you don't print, because you don't expose that area...

Then again I like my grafmatics to still contain the number thing.

Click to expand...

How is the front of a photographic print with advertising on it (from the negative) the same as the back of a canvas with advertising on it...?

Michael R 1974 said:

I don't think this would work, especially for snobs like me who still stretch their own canvases.

Here's a thought, Stone: If you buy some Ilford printing paper you get stickers with it. You can put those stickers on your negatives.

Click to expand...

notch codes arent that hard to figure out if need be .. im glad they dont have text on the film .. hate that ..
almost as much as the number wheel on my graphmatic ,, thats why the fiirst thing when i got one was unscew the holder and remove the wheel.
the notch codes are bad enough a number wheel in the negative is even worse

No thanks, and Stone you need to try printing.

I usually figure out the film code on used holders containing film, which happens all the time!