Widelux : Shutter to slow

I recently bought a defective Widelux. I like this fantastic camera! Greater than super wide lens or stitching photo's with tripod. I think my camera a Model 7 is about 50 years old, so some mechanical problems. My camera was not working at 1/15 second and a slight high frequency banding. Light seals are fall out.
I have disassembled and cleaned all the gears of the film transport at the bottom.
I have disassembled and cleaned the gears of film transport + counter right at the top.
I have all disassembled and cleaned the gears of the timer left at the top.
It took me a lot of time (2 days) to understand how to properly synchronise the gears above and below. The 1/15 second works fine again. In basic: the camera is working again after cleaning.

Still have one big problem left. All shutter times are 1 to 1,5 stop too slow. The 1/15 second should take about 2 seconds. My camera it takes 5 seconds.
I do not know what to do. I read about pivot polish. Maybe it helps to polish all the axes of the Speed Regulator, so less friction and thus achieve 2 to 2.5 seconds at 1/15 setting? An pivot polish is more high tech; and I think I need to ask for help from a professional clocks restaurateur. But is this going to help?
The oil I used for the Speed Regulator Moebius 9010/2. I used thicker Moebius 8040 on the Frame Counter and Trigger side. (is that good ?)
But I actually think that the spring has to be tightened somewhat. But I do not understand how to tighten the spring. Am afraid that I am going to disrupt or destroy things very much. Can any-one explain how I should tighten the spring? Would be great if you can help my any further with repair this great camera.
Many thanks and greetings from the Netherlands

If I have to send some pictures, just ask. Later an overal repair overview ?

How much oil did you use? Often times if the speeds are slow after you cleaned and oiled a camera, you either used the wrong oil, or used too much. Many shutter timing mechanisms don't need any oil and will retard and stick if you oil them. Each camera and shutter mechanism is different, so it's usually best to find a repair manual and follow their recommendations for oil. It's hard to guess on your own which parts need to be oiled and with what kind. If you can't find a repair manual for your particular camera, look for some made for similar cameras and try to form an educated guess on best practices. The rule for oil is, it's better to use too little and too much.

You usually can't easily retighten a spring. Those springs are tempered which means you'd run the risk of breaking them or losing them temper in an attempt to retighten them. You have to be very precise with high temperatures to remove a springs temper, bend it, and then retemper it. It's a job most professional camera repair techs won't take on. Besides, unless someone pulled out the spring and messed with it, that's probably not the issue. I have shutters over 100 years old with springs that still work well. So if you did need to retighten the spring, you'd probably be best off replacing it, by pulling one out of a different camera. Even that option if fraught with peril. It's really easy to destroy a spring while trying to move it from one camera to another without the proper tools (because rewinding a spring can be nigh impossible if it gets loose on you). So I'd start with the oil first.

And worst case scenario, I'd see if the shutter is consistent in it's slowness, and just make a note of the new speeds. I have several Compound shutters that run slow or off speed. Rather than trying to "fix" them (which requires cutting a new speed wheel), I just make a chart showing their actual speeds and keep that with them, so I can still get perfectly exposed negatives, so long as I remember to consult the chart.

Cock and fire the lens for 100 times and see if things improve. For myself I send my F7 to Tempe Camera https://www.tempecamera.biz/

Camera mechanisms and shutters that were designed to run dry benefit from a trace amount of oil after 25+ years of usage.
If you used more than a straight pin point of oil on the pivots remove the parts, wipe with a clean soft cloth, and reassemble.
All that is called for is a trace. A trace is a light sheen that can barely be detected.
A trace of light grease on gear teeth can help also.

Do a search for making springs, lots of information available. Basically put the spring in a sandwich of steel wool, wrap it in aluminum foil, bake in an oven at 450°F for 30 minutes then allow to completely cool in the oven. The tension should increase by 15% to 25%. The spring can be coated with oil before putting it in the steel wool also.

Over here clock oil is used and as shutterfinger says "a trace" is all it needs. The curious thing is whether or not it's designed to run dry?

This is my experience with an Widelux F6B years ago. As the shutter in a Widelux rotates and scans across the film plane, any problems with the shutter controlling mechanicals are basically disastrous. I couldn't use any of the slow speeds as they were slightly erratic and left vertical streaks of uneven exposure across the negative. I could use the fastest speed/s. I never did look into having the camera cleaned, etc. Has anyone been able to use the slow speeds without a problem?

Run dry ? I can try this weekend if this helps. To use some thin oil on the axes is bases on my only source
http://jumboprawn.net/jesse/widelux-repair-f7/
I would love to read an copy of the service manual from the manufacture , but couldn't find / buy it anywhere

I cannot second your sentiments about this camera. When I finally bought it ten years ago, I thought I had struck gold. However, I have always had problems with film advance that nobody was able to address. The lens is only "so and so" and it's idiotically focused at 10 mt or such, which basically means you will never really have a crisp horizon, which is what even non-photographers look first and notice. It's a beautiful, nice and ingenious camera, and I took some fairly good pictures with it, but never of the quality that I expected, and it is constantly giving me problems.

However. Did you perhaps lubricate the bars and friction cups that regulate the speed? The speed is regulated by friction cups on the top plate of the speed regulator assembly. These have to be kept absolutely clean and dry, and the cups must not be lubricated in any way. See here:

http://jumboprawn.net/jesse/repair-widelux-fv-f5/

shutterfinger said:

Do a search for making springs, lots of information available. Basically put the spring in a sandwich of steel wool, wrap it in aluminum foil, bake in an oven at 450°F for 30 minutes then allow to completely cool in the oven. The tension should increase by 15% to 25%. The spring can be coated with oil before putting it in the steel wool also.

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Interesting. So you're basically just annealing the spring? I would think that that process would relieve some of the tension of the spring, since that's usually done to soften metals (and make them less brittle). I could see it increasing tension if you used that process to get another turn out of the spring without having to worry about fractures. This process seems counterintuitive to me. I'm obviously not a metallurgist though, so I wouldn't be surprised if my understanding of all of this is way off. You may very well be correct.

I ran across this http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/springs/springs.html in a previous post on this forum. I have used the heating procedure toward the end of the instructions to rejuvenate old, weak springs in cameras. A Graflex SLR would not run the shutter curtain closed from Open on its highest tension setting, heating it as described in the article resulted in the curtain just closing from Open on the lowest tension setting making the camera usable even though the speeds were not correct to the tension table. I have heat treated other shutter springs with similar results.

I have also made springs described in the article by locking the end of the wire and a drill bit in a chuck on a cordless drill (locking type) and wound the wire keeping tension on the wire with flat jaw pliers in place of the lathe, .024 wire is the largest I've done.

I am in the need of a detailed repair handbook for my Widelux F7, Is it available? I need to do CLA but I do not want to disassemble the camera without knowledge.

I highly recommend Tempe Camera for any work on slow or sticky shutters, vertical banding and CLAs on WideLux cameras.

https://www.tempecamera.biz/REPAIR_DEPARTMENT_s/17.htm

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Thank you very much for your suggestion but I forgot to mention that I don't live in the United States, I live in Colombia which means that sending and returning the camera costs a fortune, not taking into account the repair costs, I would prefer to buy another Widelux. It would be much cheaper. That is why I want to do the CLA myself. Regards,
EDUARDO

Edubarca said:

Thank you very much for your suggestion but I forgot to mention that I don't live in the United States, I live in Colombia which means that sending and returning the camera costs a fortune, not taking into account the repair costs, I would prefer to buy another Widelux. It would be much cheaper. That is why I want to do the CLA myself. Regards,
EDUARDO

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Have you contacted Blas Giannini ? He fixed one of my LF lenses and brought my Rolleiflex back to life

Hello everyone
I have been repairing and restoring Widelux for 40 years. My workshop is in France.
On my website, I explain all the operations I carry out with the greatest care on Widelux panoramic cameras: https://mondepanneur.fr/widelux-troubleshooting
I'm also in close contact with Jeff Bridges' team, who are trying to relaunch production of this legendary camera in Germany: https://silvergrainclassics.com/en/2023/07/the-widelux-revival-project/
If you'd like to get in touch with me, please fill in this information form: https://mondepanneur.fr/services/estimer-une-reparation
If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me...
Philippe