wide angle for outdoor architecture 90 or 125 mm?

timeUnit · Nov 8, 2006

I'd like to try a cheap WA for an architecture project. Is 90 mm or 125 mm more useful.

I know it's a stupid question... they are both useful in different suituations, but I'd like to know peoples preferences.

I'm looking at Ilex Caltar 90/8 or Fujinon 125/5.6 W. Both have an IC of around 210 mm.

I use a Cambo SC 4x5 camera and a 180 mm Sironar-N. Plan to use the WA on a recessed board, bag bellows seem hard to find right now.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Donald Miller · Nov 8, 2006

For architecture I find the 90 to be preferable to the 120 or 125 focal length. I use the 120 quite a bit in landscape images and find the 90 difficult to use in that situation. However for architecture the 90 is my most used lens.

pgomena · Nov 8, 2006

You will find the 90mm focal length much more useful for architecture than the 120-125mm. If a 150mm focal length is "normal" for 4x5, a 120 is not that much wider. I've found the 120 is the least-used of all my 4x5 focal lengths. It's neither normal nor wide, about equivalent to a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera.

Peter Gomena

roteague · Nov 8, 2006

I think the 90 would be a much better choice. Unlike Donald, I find the 90 (I actually have an 80) to be a great lens for landscape photography as well. The 90 is just much more versatile.

Harrigan · Nov 8, 2006

I think if you are shooting interiors the 90mm would certainly be the better choice. If you are shooting exteriors the 125mm would be a better lens in my opinion providing less distortion and a more natural looking bldg ext. The general way of thinking is to use a longer lens for exteriors if possible and of course you'll need a fairly wide lens for interiors.

naturephoto1 · Nov 8, 2006

Of the 2 focal length ranges, I would also recommend the 90mm focal length (unless you want to spend the large sum of money on the 80mm Schneider Super Symmar XL that Robert is now using). As to the question of distortion, mentioned by Harrigan, these lenses should not suffer from distortion (they should have rectilinear correction at least for newer designs). Instead, what I believe that Harrigan is suggesting is that the lines are exaggerated perhaps due to the focal length (equivalent to between about 24 and 26mm in 35mm format), but they should be parallel. The 90mm lens will also prove valuable for interior architectural photographs, but you may also find the need for a 75mm (or the 80mm focal length mentioned) lens.

Rich

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 8, 2006

I'd also recommend the 90 for architecture. If it's a Caltar 90/8, I'm guessing that's a rebranded Super-Angulon, which is a good lens for the money.

A 90/6.8 Angulon, which is cheaper won't give you any room for movements, though it's a handy compact backpacking lens.

I've got one of each.

Ole · Nov 8, 2006

As always I have a different experience: I tend to use a 121/8 Super-Angulon on 4x5", and a 90/8 Super-Angulon on 5x7".

The 121 gets pulled out when I need vast amounts of movements, and then the 90mm gets used (on 5x7") when I need a really, really wide look. So I don't use the 121mm because it's wide, but rather because it is "short normal" with lots and lots of image circle!

Jeremy · Nov 8, 2006

Used to have a 90mm f/8 Ilex Caltar and it's pretty much a single-coated Super Angulon... great lens! I only sold mine when I received a f/5.6 Super Angulon in a package I bought.

Harrigan · Nov 9, 2006

naturephoto1 said:
Of the 2 focal length ranges, I would also recommend the 90mm focal length (unless you want to spend the large sum of money on the 80mm Schneider Super Symmar XL that Robert is now using). As to the question of distortion, mentioned by Harrigan, these lenses should not suffer from distortion (they should have rectilinear correction at least for newer designs). Instead, what I believe that Harrigan is suggesting is that the lines are exaggerated perhaps due to the focal length (equivalent to between about 24 and 26mm in 35mm format), but they should be parallel. The 90mm lens will also prove valuable for interior architectural photographs, but you may also find the need for a 75mm (or the 80mm focal length mentioned) lens.

Rich

Yes I was referring to the exaggerated perpective you get when using a wide angle for exts not technically distortion, sorry for not being clear. Obviously the closer you get to a bldg the wider the lens you will need and the more exaggerated the perspective will be. This is why I choose to back off if possible when doing a commercail shoot and use a longer lens. If the bldg is really boring or a crap design you may want to use a wider lens to give it some perspective. Regardless for int's a 90mm is not wide enough anyway although overall it is a focal length you need to have (or close) for arch photog. Most people find a 90mm invaluable for arch and landscapes myself included but the question was about ext shots of bldgs.

Kirk Gittings · Nov 9, 2006

It depends on the project. Questions:

Can you get back far enough to use the 125?

Is the project a documentation project (like HABS or historic preservation)? The 90mm may exagerate prespective inappropriately for a HABS project.

This is my my rule of thumb. On HABS or any "documentation" project I want to minimize distortion. On commercial, some interpretive editorial or advertising, anything goes.

John Kasaian · Nov 10, 2006

If the operative words are "on the cheap" I think its likely easier to find a cheap 90mm than a cheap 125 (though if movements aren't an issue a 127 Ektar or Optar would liklely be the cheapest) I'd consider 90mm WA's from Wollensak and Ilex and the 120 Angulon for stretching my money the farthest.

DrPablo · Nov 10, 2006

I find 90 to be a wonderful focal length for urban architectural exteriors, because the buildings are large and you're limited by how far you can back up. I've even pondered getting a 72,

timeUnit · Nov 10, 2006

The project is personal, and out of my pocket... No HABS (what's that?) or such.

I'm a total gear whore, and will probably end up with a nice arsenal of lenses, but for now I'd like to try just one WA. I'll try to shoot the buildings using the 180 mm as far as possible, at least for the "straight" shots. For more experimental stuff I might need to mess around with a 90 mm or similar.

Kirk Gittings · Nov 10, 2006

Habs-Historic American Building Survey

roteague · Nov 10, 2006

Kirk: thanks for your feedback on this thread. Your comments are appreciated and well thought out.

General comment: I don't do architecture work, but it seems to me that if you concentrate solely on the cost of the lens for this type of work, you will be greatly disappointed. Architecture requires discipline, creativity, but also requires good lenses and other equipment.

Kirk Gittings · Nov 10, 2006

I agree Robert, lenses are not the place to skimp in architectural photography. You need allot of coverage and edge sharpness. I need a lens where I will run out of rise before I run out of lens coverage. This keeps me out of trouble if I'm still not woken up or in a huge rush chasing some transitory light.

micek · Nov 11, 2006

I shoot architecture with 47mm XL, 72mm XL 90mm and 180mm lenses, combining them with different roll film holders (+4x5). I use my 90mm f8 Nikon lens about 80% of the time.

timeUnit · Nov 12, 2006

roteague said:
General comment: I don't do architecture work, but it seems to me that if you concentrate solely on the cost of the lens for this type of work, you will be greatly disappointed. Architecture requires discipline, creativity, but also requires good lenses and other equipment.

Of course. But when buying my first WA lens for LF, I might want to take it easy and not buy "out of my experience". I'm a total noob for this type of work, and I have some ideas I'd like to try. I know I'll mess up a lot of shots due to this and that, so I need to concentrate on composition, light, exposure, and getting my developing straight. When I've gotten some decent shots I might decide to get a "real" lens or two, and by then I'll also know what focal length I prefer.

Sounds like a plan? ;-)

naturephoto1 · Nov 12, 2006

I went back and checked my book by Steve Simmons regarding recommendations for Architecture. He suggests the following lenses in order of 1-3: 1) 90mm, 2) 150-180mm, and 3) 75mm.

Rich

Kirk Gittings · Nov 12, 2006

The rule of thumb from workshops or lectures I have attended from Julius Shulman to Peter Aaron is that you will use a 90mm lens 90% of the time for 4x5.

wide angle for outdoor architecture 90 or 125 mm?

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Donald Miller

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wide angle for outdoor architecture 90 or 125 mm?

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