wide angle for 4x5 and half plate

daveandiputra · Jul 31, 2012

hi all,

i've been looking to add a wide angle lens for my half-plate camera (6.5 ins x 4.25 ins), although for film i use 4x5 with a sheath. so the best thing would be a lens that covers both format, i do't really uses movement so extra coverage is not important.
the more important thing is budget most i can afford right now would be US$300 max, on keh i've seen some 90mm lens that fits the budget, but i know nothing of the coverage of the lenses.

right now i use a 180mm f4.5 heliar (a bit wide actually on the halfplate) and a 135mm lens ( i actually forgot the make and type ), so i'm hoping someone here can give some ideas what lens to look for

cheers,

Dave

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2012

A 90mm Supera angluon, Grandagon, or similar would be ideal. Plenty of movements on the 5x4 and a little on half plate.

Ian

daveandiputra · Jul 31, 2012

hi ian,

i'm looking at three 90mm lens at the moment two super angulon (5.6 and 8) and a sinaron 6.8, anything i should know about them? or why i should choose between them?

the super angulon 5.6 is clearly the most expensive but if the advantages are leaning over that one, it is still in my bugdet

cheers,

dave

ps: the 135mm i have is a hugo meyer doppel-anastigmat 135mm 4.5, just got home and checked it out

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2012

The 90mm f5.6 SA has slightly larger coverage than the f8 version, it's aslightly easier to focus but it is slightly larger and heavier. They are very nice lenses though, very sharp.

Ian

Jesper · Jul 31, 2012

You could try the older, much smaller and cheaper Angulon 90/6.8.
I bought mine at next to nothing and the result made me buy the 120/6.8, 165/6.8 and 210/6.8 as well.
Small and cheap lenses.

Jim Noel · Jul 31, 2012

The difference in coverage between the SA 90 and the Angulon 90 is so small as to make the Angulon my choice although i own both.

paul_c5x4 · Jul 31, 2012

Beg to differ on the coverage of the Super Angulon. From the Schneider Optics vintage data pages:

Angulon 6.8/90mm Image circle at f/16 = 154mm
Angle of view at f/16 = 81 degrees

Super-Angulon 8/90mm Image circle at f/22 = 216mm
Angle of view at f/22 = 100 degrees

Super-Angulon 5.6/90mm Image circle at f/22 = 235mm
Angle of view at f/22 = 105 degrees

To my mind, the SA 8/90 has much more scope for movements than the plain old Angulon - Certainly on my Wista Field, I find bellows to be the limiting factor whith rise/fall/shift when using my SA 8/90. That said, the Angulon is much smaller and lighter than the SA which is worth bearing in mind if you go back country hiking with a LF rig.

Pasto · Jul 31, 2012

Agree with Paul_c5x4. I don't think the angulon covers 4x5.... I have the SA 5.6 and will never look back. The extra weight is insignificant for me in comparison with the extra light for focusing on interior photography (which is what I do most of). The extra coverage is a big bonus. I had the SA 8.0 but ran out of coverage on occassion which was very frustrating, and of course it was harder to focus.

Alan Gales · Jul 31, 2012

From my understanding the 90 Angulon is popular with backpackers because of it's size and weight. Stopped down it will cover 4x5 but just barely with almost no room for movements. I have never shot one to confirm this however.

It's also dirt cheap!

Jesper · Jul 31, 2012

In real life there is not that much difference between the coverage between the Angulon and the Super Angulon. I'm am well aware of the 154mm circle given by Schneider, but when I've used the 6.8 on my 8x10" the real figure is about 200mm. However, the image quality drops towards the edge.
I have both SA and A, but the SA lenses stay home while I use the A lenses (check the difference between the 165/8 and 165/6.8).

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2012

In real life there's a huge differance between a 90mm Angulon and a 90mm Super Angulon, one just covers 5x4 with no room for movements the other (the SA) will cover 5x4 with plenty of movements and 7x5 or half plate with some movements.

I have and use both types and the Angulons have limitations.

Ian

daveandiputra · Aug 1, 2012

okay since i want to use the lens for half plate also, i think that rules out the angulon, and i am leaning towards the super angulon, just thinking about the 5.6 and 8 version, i'm reading that the main difference is the size and dimness on the viewfinder. the size is not very important, most of my walkabout is around the city. but the dimness could be a problem, i often use the camera indoors in limited lighting also.

cheers,

dave

Jesper · Aug 1, 2012

For a project I used the Angulon 90/6.8 on an 8x10" camera and there is no doubt that the image circle is slightly more than 200mm on f16 and distances above 30m. However the Angulons are a bit different in that the image circle does not coincide with the circle of sharpness which means that the sharpness falls during the last 25mm. I think that the 154mm given by Schneider is the circle where the sharpness is above a certain level. It is not the image circle.
How does this affect the pictures? - If you really need perfect sharpness all the way to the corners combined with large movements you need the SA, for all other purposes the A will suit you just as well and it is also brighter and a lot lighter (mine weighs 118g complete with shutter). Not to mention that they cost next to nothing.
Try one before you discard it.

When I think about them, I like my SA lenses, but I hardly ever use them (the only SA I have used this year is the 165/8 for 8x10" but you don't want to use that one on a 4x5" camera).

E. von Hoegh · Aug 1, 2012

Alan Gales said:
From my understanding the 90 Angulon is popular with backpackers because of it's size and weight. Stopped down it will cover 4x5 but just barely with almost no room for movements. I have never shot one to confirm this however.

It's also dirt cheap!

It will cover 4x5, and you can get away with some very slight movement, more if there is no detail in the corners of the scene. I've been using one for a while.

E. von Hoegh · Aug 1, 2012

Jesper said:
For a project I used the Angulon 90/6.8 on an 8x10" camera and there is no doubt that the image circle is slightly more than 200mm on f16 and distances above 30m. However the Angulons are a bit different in that the image circle does not coincide with the circle of sharpness which means that the sharpness falls during the last 25mm. I think that the 154mm given by Schneider is the circle where the sharpness is above a certain level. It is not the image circle.
How does this affect the pictures? - If you really need perfect sharpness all the way to the corners combined with large movements you need the SA, for all other purposes the A will suit you just as well and it is also brighter and a lot lighter (mine weighs 118g complete with shutter). Not to mention that they cost next to nothing.
Try one before you discard it.

When I think about them, I like my SA lenses, but I hardly ever use them (the only SA I have used this year is the 165/8 for 8x10" but you don't want to use that one on a 4x5" camera).

Image circle is the size of the sharp image, not the size of the circle of illumination. Schneider's 154mm is correct.

Bertil · Aug 1, 2012

I'm quite happy with my Fujinon SW 90mm f/8; it has an image circle of 216mm (@f/22) and covers 5x7", weight 407g, though haven't compared it to anything comparable (also have a Graflex Optar 90/6.8 of which I know very little and used only a few times, though looked ok).
My Nikkor-SW 65/4 is also a very nice lense, but with an image circle of just 170mm@f/16 it covers 4x5 but not much more.
/Bertil

Leigh B · Aug 1, 2012

daveandiputra said:
...on keh i've seen some 90mm lens that fits the budget, but i know nothing of the coverage of the lenses.

KEH usually tells you right in the listing what film the lens will cover, like (4X5) or (5X7).

In your case you would want 5X7.

My computer database* shows seven 90mm lenses, six of which have ICs larger than the 218mm diagonal of 5x7 film.
The one exception is the Fujinon SW 90/8 at 216mm, which would cover your half-plate.

The smallest/lightest lens in my list is the Nikkor SW 90/8.

- Leigh

*Note: My database is not all-inclusive, containing only modern lenses from the "big four", with few Schneider lenses.

daveandiputra · Aug 1, 2012

Leigh B said:
KEH usually tells you right in the listing what film the lens will cover, like (4X5) or (5X7).

In your case you would want 5X7.

My computer database* shows seven 90mm lenses, six of which have ICs larger than the 218mm diagonal of 5x7 film.
The one exception is the Fujinon SW 90/8 at 216mm, which would cover your half-plate.

The smallest/lightest lens in my list is the Nikkor SW 90/8.

- Leigh

*Note: My database is not all-inclusive, containing only modern lenses from the "big four", with few Schneider lenses.

on the SA 5.6 KEH only states 4x5 but schenieder states it will cover 13x18, i've heard good things about the nikkor SW 90/8, but haven't found it yet so have no guide on the price relating to my budget.

Leigh B · Aug 1, 2012

daveandiputra said:
i've heard good things about the nikkor SW 90/8, but haven't found it yet so have no guide on the price

KEH has a few in stock, such as Dead Link Removed

At $465 in BGN it might be a bit rich for the current search.

- Leigh

daveandiputra · Aug 2, 2012

Leigh B said:
KEH has a few in stock, such as Dead Link Removed

At $465 in BGN it might be a bit rich for the current search.

- Leigh

yep, thats to rich for me and add to that the SA f5.6 i've been looking at is gone now.

so the search continues

daveandiputra · Aug 2, 2012

another question, there is two super angulon f8 BGN on KEH, with significant price differences, one is technica the other is copal (which i believe means newer production), any other difference on them?

Leigh B · Aug 2, 2012

The Technika lenses are supposedly specially selected by Linhof,
implying that they perform better than standard Schneider lenses.

Whether that's actually true, or merely advertising hype, I don't know.

Copal is the name of the shutter.
Other shutter manufacturers were Compur and Seiko.
Copal is still in business. The other two are not.

- Leigh

daveandiputra · Aug 2, 2012

Leigh B said:
The Technika lenses are supposedly specially selected by Linhof, implying that they perform better than standard Schneider lenses.

Whether that's actually true, or merely advertising hype, I don't know.

Copal is the name of the shutter. Other shutter manufacturers are/were Compur and Seiko.
Copal is still in business. The other two are not.

- Leigh

yes i mean because the other one is using copal shutter and price higher i concluded that it must be more younger production, while the technika lens has no shutter maker specified and cheaper.

of course if all is the same i would prefer the cheaper technica SA, but maybe if you or anyone can give me more insight on the difference?

Ian Grant · Aug 2, 2012

daveandiputra said:
another question, there is two super angulon f8 BGN on KEH, with significant price differences, one is technica the other is copal (which i believe means newer production), any other difference on them?

One may be coated the other Multicoated, however the coatings on Schneiders pre MC lenses are particularly good, I have 4 coated Super Angulons (65mm, 75mm, 90mm & 165mm) and they are all very flare resistant.

Also there's a few early 90mm f8 Super Angulons that come in the small Compur #00 shutter this is best avoided as it has no preview or T setting, it's not the best of shutters for frequent use. My 65mm f8 SA is in a Compur #00 and it's a Linhof select lens. Linhof and Compur (Deckel) had a common shareholder/founder.

Linhof were supplied batches of lens and returned any that failed their own tests, they can't be better than other Schneider lenses but there's less chance of one that's at the lower end of the quality control tolerances.

Ian

wide angle for 4x5 and half plate

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