Why You didn't Come to the Conference

katcall · May 18, 2006

Originally posted by John McCallum

One of the best suggestions seen so far imnsho. Great for those of us who live so far from the bulk of humanity.

Thanks John.

For some of us (for the various reasons already given) the only way to participate in such events is on one's butt in front of the computer. Being on my butt in front of the computer found me this great forum called APUG.

The fact is many of us will probably not be able to attend the conference any time soon, and making access to one or two of the workshops online is a way to help fund the conference and let others be involved. I don't think it will stop people from attending as you obviously get far more from being there than not. My suggestion was not to make all of the conference on-line, just one or two workshops. Maybe it's worth trialling sometime in the future at one of the conference workshops just to see if it is a viable or worthwhile option.

Regards

Kathy

John McCallum · May 18, 2006

Exactly. And credit (to you Kathy) where it is due.

johnnywalker · May 18, 2006

Time and $. I'm probably on the last big contract of my career, and didn't want to screw it up by taking a "time out". I do want to go next year, when I'm (semi?) retired.
Incidently, to get to Toronto I'd have to fly out of Vancouver. In-Canada flights are expensive. I can darn near get to Europe for the same price. Nothing against Toronto, but given the choice and equal accommodation expenses, I'd rather go to Europe (and I've read the threads on the difficulties involved, no need to go into that again).
My hat is off to the organisers. From all that I've read and seen they did a wonderful job.

BWKate · May 18, 2006

I received a ticket gratis to visit a teacher friend in China. It was the same time as the conference otherwise I would have gone to the conference in a heartbeat! I also don't have alot of money but I would have found it somewhere. The chance to meet so many apuggers would have been great. I've met a few and I plan on meeting more! I've been enjoying the conference photo thread.

BWKate

Fintan · May 18, 2006

mrcallow said:
It is time to hear why other members didn't come. I realize money, time and timing are major factors. I also know that we will often find the time and money if the event is exactly what we want.

I'd really like to hear everyones reasons for not coming and what would compel them to attend a future APUG Conference.

I didn't attend because....

Cost: I checked out flights from Ireland and they worked out to be approx 600 euro. Accomodation would have been another 2-300 euro. I could not justify this outlay.
Family: I have an 8 month old baby girl and I was reluctant to be away in another continent for 4-5 days

I would attend 2007 if....

Location was nearer to me reducing cost and travelling time.
Mr McClean and Mr Rudman are doing more workshops

I don't agree that we will often find the money and time if the conference is what you want. This conference had everything I wanted.

Thanks for asking,

Fintan

joneil · May 18, 2006

I would have come, as I only live about two hours drive away (the irony of it all), but could not make it for two reasons;

First I was working most of those days, and simply could not get away. Secondly my son had his band competition that weekend, so family prevailed.

As far as comments about "I wish it were closer too me", I cannot tellyou how many imtes I have looked at going to a View Camera conference, or going to a week long workshop, or some other event, only to blocked from doing so by the long travel distance and time.

I say this to everyone because when I first heard that the APUG conference was only going to be a 2 hour drive away from where I live, I thought I had hit the jackpot. Then I checkout the weekend, and i find out between work & family events, it's still a no-go. The way that weekend was tied up, even if I lived in Toronto, I probally could not have made it.

so just a gentle reminder to all of you who say "if it were only closer I would go", yes, I said much the same thing about other related conferences and events, and look what happens. To paraphrase from the TV show "My Name is Earl" - karma can be a bitch.

joe

MenacingTourist · May 18, 2006

I was almost planning on going but...

I got a new job and moved 2000 miles from Utah to NJ. Anyone who's ever moved knows what I've been through

Bring on the next one and I'll try not to do anything so utterly insane.

jd callow · May 18, 2006

Streaming and or a DVD has been requested from those who cannot attend. I have done both for clients and know what it entails and therefore have good idea of costs and requirements.

Can those who would be interested tell me what you would be willing to pay. I can not justify, nor afford to have the attendees pay. Assume that the stream/dvd would be available after the fact (real time streaming is not in the cards) and that it will include all outings, free events and some lectures, but is unlikely to include most workshops.

The Silver conference people queried the speakers and found that it was extremely expensive to 'buy the rights' to their talks. I can only assume that the cost to broadcast the ws would be on par. Some instructors may not care and therefore their workshops would be available.

Fintan · May 18, 2006

I would only be interested in buying the workshops or lectures and figure that the appropriate cost for a dvd for each workshop would be in the region of 66-75% of the actual cost to attend the workshop in person.

I dont think that a streaming or download service / DVD should be considered an add-on to a future conference given that there are 12,000 members and just over 100 made it to the conference.

Dave Parker · May 18, 2006

I am like Fintan, I would only be interested in workshops and lectures, the outings and such are secondary on my priority list for an event of this nature. 65-75% is in the ballpark for what most distance learning normally costs and is a fair price range for this type of stuff.

Dave

frugal · May 18, 2006

Just a comment on the DVD/streaming idea, looking at the workshops I attended I'm not certain how well they'd lend themselves to this format.

I could see the cross-processing workshop as being fairly easily done. The LF workshop was all outside with us setting up the camera and taking polaroids, I really don't see that translating to video very well because it was almost all hands-on working with the camera and having Peter there to help out with questions. The AZO workshop (and any of the other darkroom courses) could pose problems due to lighting levels and I'm not sure if you'd be able to see the details in the prints in the video. The portfolio review I had with Les presents other issues as you're dealing with participants' images (rights issues?) and I could see how some participants might have issues with being taped.

Obviously, I can't comment on any workshops that I didn't attend but to me it seems like the majority of the workshops I attended really don't lend themselves to being taped so I'm not sure how feasible it would be. Of course a lot of this could be addressed for a future conference but then that might change the format of the workshop which could make things less ideal for the on-site participants in order to put things in a format more suited to video.

David A. Goldfarb · May 18, 2006

I suspect that the best workshops on video are produced for video, carefully thought out, storyboarded, scripted at least partially, well lit, edited with relevant closeups of techniques, before and after shots, etc. Having one or two guys with video cameras running during a workshop isn't likely to produce a product worth purchasing, though it might be a nice record of the event.

jd callow · May 18, 2006

Here is how I see the DVD at first blush.

There are 12000 members and how many will buy a DVD? There are 12000 members and how many came?

If participation in both can be assumed to be equal that would be 100 DVDs sold. At @ 50 each that is 5k and would cover rentals (sound equipment, lights and Cameras) with maybe enough left over to hire 6 - 8 AV students to do the recording (2 camera operators and 2 sound guys and a couple of grips and lighting folk). It can not be done with any assurance of even minimal quality with a home DV camera and on camera sound and our volunteers would be needed for the main event.

Additionally the post production editing and menu creation would be intensive and it would need to be done on a volunteer basis. This is not a job for Shareware or the DVD software that came with your burner.

We might need to get waivers from the attendees and at this price the instructors would need to give up their workshops for free.

As mentioned some workshops would not benefit from a video recording and others (like street photography) might be ruined by the intrusion.

I would think the DVD would need to be at least $100 per if anticipated sales were to be 100 units. This way we would be able to pay for the unforeseen and give the instructors payment. This might allow for the post production person to get a small check as well.

We could possibly sell the DVD for 50.00 If we could be assured of selling more than 100, say twice that, and if we have no qualms about asking the post production person to work for free.

David A. Goldfarb · May 18, 2006

And since this is APUG, and since there's a very active small-gauge cinema crowd in Toronto, shouldn't we be shooting it on film?

wilhelm · May 18, 2006

My lame excuse is that I'm between jobs, and I just don't have the money. I really wanted to go, and if I'd had the money, I would have. I always forget to take my vacation, so time off certainly wouldn't have been a problem.

Will

terri · May 18, 2006

Hi all - I try to schedule a photography-related trip at least once per year for myself. I make no excuses to anyone that that is what it is for!

I already had one scheduled in April when I learned of this conference, and couldn't afford another trip quite so soon after.

Since you asked....the workshops are very important to me. Seeing Tim Rudman's name is a huge pull in particular. I would much rather be there in person for some "hands on" experience, but would gladly pony up the money for a DVD if I couldn't get it any other way.

However, I have every intention of being there next year! I'm already looking forward to it, seeing what I missed.

metod · May 18, 2006

Being a stone throw away from Toronto when considering from how far some people made to the Conference, it bothers me I that I did not go. Joining the Apug just a few weeks prior to the Conference and working weekend shifts threw off any plannings I tried to make. You will see me there next year, for sure.

BWGirl · May 18, 2006

David A. Goldfarb said:
I suspect that the best workshops on video are produced for video, carefully thought out, storyboarded, scripted at least partially, well lit, edited with relevant closeups of techniques, before and after shots, etc. Having one or two guys with video cameras running during a workshop isn't likely to produce a product worth purchasing, though it might be a nice record of the event.

This is absolutely true. I cannot see how trying to combine the taping of a workshop with the actual workshop could happen with any effectiveness. It would really not be fair to those actually in attendence to have their workshop tailored in the same was as one done for video. I can almost guarantee that a video of the Street Photography workshop will NOT help you go up to someone, engage them in converstation, and take their picture!

I can see how money & time could be constraints on attending, just as they are constraints on attending any workshop. But if I cannot attend the Colorado printing workshop with Les McLean, for example, I certainly do not expect to be able to purchase a video of it.

It's funny how I keep seeing posts about the costs of hotels/lodging. I know for a fact that several people here actually posted asking for room mates to help defer costs, and I know that they got no or only one response! There were quite a few young students at this conference who came from outside of Toronto and found cheaper lodging in hostels and such. They roomed together to share expenses, and had only met at the conference!

It's all about choices... I chose and will choose again to attend this conference because I felt it was important... I guess it's no different to me than people who 'chose' to buy $1000 cameras/lenses, etc. If it's viable, ie, money is not the problem, it's a matter of choice or commitment conflicts... those cannot be helped, and I felt bad for those who were unable to attend because of those conflicts.

Maybe one of the things that could be considered for the future is a student discount on registration. Perhaps as sponsorship grows, there could be some sort of fund to help make up the difference, BUT this should not fall on the shoulders of other attendees.

PhotoPete · May 18, 2006

1. Broke
2. Not my wife's idea of a vacation. Maybe the carribean next time? St. John is lovely this time of year...

Shmoo · May 18, 2006

hortense said:
Live in Southern California.

ditto

jeffneedham · May 18, 2006

i chose to visit puerto rico. my girlfriend chose not to hate me.

Dave Parker · May 18, 2006

In the whole scope of things, the hotel and lodgeing costs were nil, not even a consideration...the costs for me to go were expensive, no matter how I choose to go

lets see $1392.00 in airfare OR

4600 miles of driving which is about 65 hours +- and about $750.00 in gas and lost time in production of screens..which as popular as our screens are would set us back even more and that is just the drive, does not include the fees for workshops and eating along the way and while there, so no matter how you cut it, it was not just priorities, but realities that get in the way of traveling this far, not a whine, just a straight out fact for many people..

Dave

Jim Chinn · May 18, 2006

As David G. pointed out, there is a lot more involved in providing a good video/DVD product then just pointing a video camera at what is going on. Talking to a friend locally who is involved in working in film and video production of this kind he told me expect to spend from 50-100 hours in planning, pre-production setup, shooting dozens of takes, and post production editing to even begin to approach a decent final product. And that he said if for a very basic 40-60 minute final product.

Maybe a set of high quality, professionally designed and produced DVDs/downloads about various aspects of analoge might actually be viable and something a large number of APUGers might buy. But I think that is something that would have to be done as a seperate project from the conference. I don't think you can acheive the results people will pay money for by simply "documenting" what is happening in a workshop. You may also find that many of your workshop instructors will not be to keen on being part of a video (or DVD stream tha can be saved to a hard drive or TIVO) that might later get re-distributed and cut into future workshop revenues. At least not unless they get a cut of the proceeds which in turn will increase the price.

clay · May 18, 2006

This is too much fun to ignore. Why didn't I go? Hmmmmm..

#10 Couldn't find my keys
#9 Canada, where is that?
#8 Couldn't find my digital point and shoot
#7 Made too many enemies in APUG already
#6 Left the cardboard box I intended to sleep in out in the rain
#5 Heard temperature would drop below 70 degrees
#4 No pollution, how do you expect me to breathe normally?
#3 No clean underwear
#2 Had appointment to get my back waxed
#1 Too close to a likely ovulation date

Eric Rose · May 18, 2006

Satinsnow said:
In the whole scope of things, the hotel and lodgeing costs were nil, not even a consideration...the costs for me to go were expensive, no matter how I choose to go

lets see $1392.00 in airfare OR

Dave

Geez Dave you could have drove up to Calgary and flew for under $400CAD return, tax in!

Why You didn't Come to the Conference

katcall

John McCallum

johnnywalker

BWKate

Fintan

joneil

MenacingTourist

jd callow

Moderator

Fintan

Dave Parker

frugal

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

jd callow

Moderator

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

wilhelm

terri

metod

BWGirl

PhotoPete

Shmoo

jeffneedham

Dave Parker

Jim Chinn

clay

Eric Rose

Why You didn't Come to the Conference

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency