Why would you buy expired 35mm film?

twelvetone12 · Aug 17, 2019

I got some cheap frozen expired efke 25, 50 and 100, really just to try it out, and it works really really well. I also tried some Solaris 100 and the old Ferrania made AgfaPhoto Precisa 100, all cold stored and all with good results.
For me it more to try some films that are no longer made while there is still a possibility to get an image on them.
On the other hand ebay is full of people selling kodachrome from 1993 at 25 euros each and I wonder what is the market for that.

CMoore · Aug 17, 2019

mshchem said:
If you know how it's been stored. And it's been stored correctly. I'm still shooting 100 sheet boxes of 4x5 TMY that I bought in 2003, it expired in 2001. I bought it from my friend who owns a camera store. Back then he was a Kodak Pro dealer. He kept everything in a refrigerator that was professional film. I have everything frozen of refrigerated.
I don't buy outdated film off Ebay.

Yeah, for anybody that is new to this concept.......just because somebody on Ebay (regardless of their "rating") says the film was properly cold-stored for the last 10 years, that means nothing.
They could be Making It Up/Lying... maybe repeating what somebody else (over the years) told them about the film, perhaps they had it in and out of 9 different refrigerators and 5 different garages, Etc etc etc.
Who knows what the real story is.
Risking 20 bux might not be a big deal, but i would not start gambling with 50-100 dollars on film that might develop all over the map.

firemachine69 · Aug 17, 2019

STILL waiting for someone to tell me what modern-day substitute exists for Velvia 50...

John51 · Aug 17, 2019

firemachine69 said:
STILL waiting for someone to tell me what modern-day substitute exists for Velvia 50...

I have some well expired Velvia 50 and as well as losing a stop, the reds seems to have calmed down to 'normal'. Skin tones are safe.

I only have screen images to go by but the closest to the classic Velvia 50 look I've come across so far are images from a Foveon sensor. If I ever get into dslr scanning, I'd be looking at using a Sigma SD14. (Can't afford a SD1 Merril.)

blockend · Aug 17, 2019

John51 said:
I have some well expired Velvia 50 and as well as losing a stop, the reds seems to have calmed down to 'normal'. Skin tones are safe.

That's interesting, I have 20 rolls of Velvia 50 (4 packs of 120) in the freezer. The last batch made, the importer sold it off before expiry. It's been in the fridge since the day I got it, still in the padded postal envelope and I couldn't think of a project I could use it for. Should I use it or sell it? Hmm..

removed account4 · Aug 17, 2019

firemachine69 said:
STILL waiting for someone to tell me what modern-day substitute exists for Velvia 50...

i've got some in 4x5 ( bought when it was new and pricy and now its shelf stored and 15+years old like the provia 160 I have, same vintage ) it processes great in ansco130 and caffenol.

ic-racer · Aug 17, 2019

I'm intrigued as to the various reasons one might purchase expired film.

Ignorance? Maybe people don't know film is still being made. The internet abounds with misinformation.

removed account4 · Aug 17, 2019

ic-racer said:
Ignorance? Maybe people don't know film is still being made. The internet abounds with misinformation.

yup lots of misinformation about a lot of stuff.

jtk · Aug 17, 2019

firemachine69 said:
STILL waiting for someone to tell me what modern-day substitute exists for Velvia 50...

For a color printer the alternatives to Velvia 50 are better. Velvia was a hassle with the best internegs (proper Kodak interneg film), terrible with direct positive paper (especially Ciba), and didn't scan as well as you'd hope. The beauty of Velvia ended on a light box or in projection.

David Brown · Aug 17, 2019

Here’s a twist: I teach beginning darkroom workshops. For learning to load developing reels, each student gets a “practice roll”, i.e., an old expired roll to use for practice in the light. For 35mm, no problem so far. We have bags of old film scoured from numerous sources at no cost. However, 120 rolls are precious. I used up my own stock and am now begging for rolls from whoever. I went to the local used photo store (who supports my workshops because it adds to his sales of analog materials) and asked him for some expired film. No, he won’t give it to me because he CAN SELL IT!

firemachine69 · Aug 17, 2019

jtk said:
For a color printer the alternatives to Velvia 50 are better. Velvia was a hassle with the best internegs (proper Kodak interneg film), terrible with direct positive paper (especially Ciba), and didn't scan as well as you'd hope. The beauty of Velvia ended on a light box or in projection.

Sooo... Ektachrome? I really do want something that captures that rich "look". I used on a roll that was expired by about two years, I haven't heard back from the film processor so I'm a little concerned it was a total loss (which kind of hurts at $15 a roll). I fully knew I was taking a chance, here's to hoping at least a frame or two came out.

I have really fond memories as a young teenager watching slides of deep space astro-pics captured on what I later discovered was Velvia 50. When I stumbled on it a while back on KR's website and his glowing review of it, it reminded me how much I enjoyed that look.

Kino · Aug 17, 2019

Why not shoot expired film if you like the results?

Another reason why we tend to not have younger people on Photrio; the inability of some to allow others to have fun and not adhere to their standards.

You got standards? Good. Enforce them on yourself.

Don't like the results they post and want to be critical? Expect criticism in return; it's pretty simple.

Taz777 said:
I've seen adverts for expired 35mm film with expiry dates of 2001, 2004, etc. The price doesn't appear to be much different from fresh 35mm film from what I can tell, maybe a tiny bit cheaper.

There must be a market for it, and I'm intrigued as to the various reasons one might purchase expired film.

The baseline assumption for most people on Photrio is that anyone who shoots film is attempting to produce work that is "technically competent" in the classic sense.

I think this bespeaks a real blindness to the aesthetic of upcoming photographers who are attempting to break-out of the "perfection" trap high-end digital and analog that is pushed down their throats daily.

Why do you think the pre-exposed color-flash and patterned films are so popular? Look on Freestyle if you are unaware; there are many versions for sale and they wouldn't be there if there wasn't a demand.

It also points out that a large percentage of people on here are making enemies of the very people we should be recruiting into our ranks; the young people who are expressing interest and buying film, thus keeping the industry alive so that ALL can practice their preferred aesthetic of photography.

Are we such dinosaurs that we cannot be flexible enough to accept them into the fold and allow them to "do their thing"?

It is one thing to coach others who ill-advisedly wish to make "technically competent" images to classic standards with expired or substandard materials and it is a totally different thing to just criticize someone's aesthetic because it doesn't fit into an ossified canon of acceptability.

blockend · Aug 17, 2019

firemachine69 said:
Sooo... Ektachrome? I really do want something that captures that rich "look".

It's almost impossible to get the richness of a colour slide on paper. I printed Cibachromes in the 70s and 80s, and nice as they were slides are a different medium. Serious photographers embraced medium format colour negative film for good reasons. I say almost because there are beautifully printed slide images in books by Saul Leiter, William Klein and others, and I've yet to see a dye transfer image via interneg in the flesh. The luminous quality of a slide doesn't readily translate to a reflective surface.

GarageBoy · Aug 17, 2019

Tmax still looks different enough from film when printed and that's why I enjoy it

Not a fan of the gritty look in most shots

I try to shoot fresh film, but I don't shoot enough and it becomes expired film - still waiting to figure out what to do with my two e100g 120 rolls and five provia 400x (which color shifted even when not that expired, but still usable)

I used expired 1994 ektachrome 100 once a few years back and never again - waste of time and $

Ai Print · Aug 17, 2019

"Why would you buy expired 35mm film?"

To make expired pictures...

John51 · Aug 17, 2019

blockend said:
That's interesting, I have 20 rolls of Velvia 50 (4 packs of 120) in the freezer. The last batch made, the importer sold it off before expiry. It's been in the fridge since the day I got it, still in the padded postal envelope and I couldn't think of a project I could use it for. Should I use it or sell it? Hmm..

That's what I bought a few years ago, 20 rolls. A few rolls got used with my Medalist but the rest are now earmarked for my newly acquired Sputnik MF3D.

CMoore · Aug 17, 2019

Kino said:
Why not shoot expired film if you like the results?

Another reason why we tend to not have younger people on Photrio; the inability of some to allow others to have fun and not adhere to their standards.

You got standards? Good. Enforce them on yourself.

Don't like the results they post and want to be critical? Expect criticism in return; it's pretty simple.

The baseline assumption for most people on Photrio is that anyone who shoots film is attempting to produce work that is "technically competent" in the classic sense.

I think this bespeaks a real blindness to the aesthetic of upcoming photographers who are attempting to break-out of the "perfection" trap high-end digital and analog that is pushed down their throats daily.

Why do you think the pre-exposed color-flash and patterned films are so popular? Look on Freestyle if you are unaware; there are many versions for sale and they wouldn't be there if there wasn't a demand.

It also points out that a large percentage of people on here are making enemies of the very people we should be recruiting into our ranks; the young people who are expressing interest and buying film, thus keeping the industry alive so that ALL can practice their preferred aesthetic of photography.

Are we such dinosaurs that we cannot be flexible enough to accept them into the fold and allow them to "do their thing"?

It is one thing to coach others who ill-advisedly wish to make "technically competent" images to classic standards with expired or substandard materials and it is a totally different thing to just criticize someone's aesthetic because it doesn't fit into an ossified canon of acceptability.

Not sure i follow you.
I do not see anybody in these posts trying to make "Enemies" but i did read a lot of decent info.
There was discussion of both why people Do and Do Not use it.

Anyway, this is what the OP asked...............
" I've seen adverts for expired 35mm film with expiry dates of 2001, 2004, etc. The price doesn't appear to be much different from fresh 35mm film from what I can tell, maybe a tiny bit cheaper.

There must be a market for it, and I'm intrigued as to the various reasons one might purchase expired film."

eddie · Aug 17, 2019

With B&W, I've found the expiration dates to be very conservative. I've used film (which I purchased fresh, and kept refrigerated) years after the expiration date, without any degradation. Back in the days when I ran densitometer tests, there was no difference between fresh and 3-4 years old. I think manufacturers want to err on the side of caution (as well as sell fresh stuff). If you know how the film was kept, and it's a significant savings, I wouldn't hesitate to use out of date stuff.

PS- I feel much differently about expired dairy products...

Alan Gales · Aug 17, 2019

donkee said:
Seems the hipsters believe that terrible results are "retro" and was typical of analog gear. When analog was the only way, if your photos turned out as they believe they used to you would have either had your gear serviced or purchased new gear, same with film. If it returned cruddy results you used it for testing or threw it away. When people take perfectly exposed movie film then either physically damage it or add "artifacts" (usually way overboard) to scanned film PP, I just shake my head and wonder why........

One of my stepsons is a bit of a hipster. He went out to California and took a whole bunch of pictures with his 35mm camera. He asked me what I thought of them and I told him that they were all a little overexposed. He replied that he did it on purpose because he liked the way that they looked. Later, my daughter (his half sister) explained to me that hipsters like overexposed photographs. Yeah, I don't get hipsters either. I just figure that as long as they are buying film, it's a good thing for all of us.

ozphoto · Aug 17, 2019

I would buy it if it were something I wanted to try out - but only if the price is right. I know full well that the results are probably not going to be anywhere near to what it was when first on the market, but that is part of the fun. However, there's no way I'll be paying some of the prices being asked for film that's 25+ years old, I might as well burn the cash on fresh stuff.

I landed 5 rolls of really old film (various brands) when a local photo store closed down. They had no idea where it had come from, how it was stored and if it was any good (let alone if it had been exposed previously). They were asking $5/roll, I offered $3/roll and they accepted.

First roll was some old Fuji 100 (probably from the late 90s) - had been exposed previously so that was an utter dud.
Second roll was some VR1000 (dating from the 80s). It had a heavy colour cast (cyan) but I got a few shots that cleaned up fairly well, so I'm happy.

One particular roll is a brand new, boxed, Ektar 25, and I'm really looking forward to shooting it. It's dated March 1990 and I remember shooting this stuff when it was first released and loved it, so I'm very interested in how it holds up after almost 30 years.

The remainder is in the deep freeze, waiting for the weather to improve so that I can have some more fun, alongside my own stash of film, (predominately) bulk rolls of Agfapan B&W and Agfachrome RS, with some Kodak and Fuji thrown in for good measure.

I'd probably try out more old stuff, if the cost of postage wasn't so high - sadly, that alone makes it totally idiotic to even contemplate 98% of what's on offer.

In a nutshell: I shoot it because it's fun and I like to see how the films I grew up with have stood the test of time.

George Mann · Aug 18, 2019

John51 said:
Digital audio can be be very clean but some prefer hearing the snap crackle and pop of a mid-fi record player and unwashed vinyl.

And some of us prefer the superior true-to-life sound of properly cleaned and reproduced records over digital, just as I prefer the truer look of film.

blockend · Aug 18, 2019

What is the audio equivalent to ultra large format photography? 1" tape?

donkee · Aug 18, 2019

Alan Gales said:
One of my stepsons is a bit of a hipster. He went out to California and took a whole bunch of pictures with his 35mm camera. He asked me what I thought of them and I told him that they were all a little overexposed. He replied that he did it on purpose because he liked the way that they looked. Later, my daughter (his half sister) explained to me that hipsters like overexposed photographs. Yeah, I don't get hipsters either. I just figure that as long as they are buying film, it's a good thing for all of us.

I am all for them using film and give them credit for that. Sadly though I also see them buying beautiful old cameras and butchering them when they could find many other ways to create "hipster" images.

Kodachromeguy · Aug 18, 2019

donkee said:
I am all for them using film and give them credit for that. Sadly though I also see them buying beautiful old cameras and butchering them when they could find many other ways to create "hipster" images.

I do not get it. Butchering cameras by doing what, taking them apart?

removed account4 · Aug 18, 2019

donkee said:
I am all for them using film and give them credit for that. Sadly though I also see them buying beautiful old cameras and butchering them when they could find many other ways to create "hipster" images.

its too bad people are so insulting towards people just enjoying themselves and doing their own thing. what should the guy have been doing ? should he have been photographing puppies and kittens playing with a ball of yarn and unicorns f@rting sparkle rainbows with velvia, or rocks and trees using someone elses tripod holes or ?
you sound like the "fun people" who used to send me nice personal messages because I was using their precious AZO paper for photograms instead ( or in addition to ) contact printing LF negatives. its too bad people get so bent out of shape and make harsh commentary like this, sadly it is probably one of the reason why we don't have more younger people here...

Why would you buy expired 35mm film?

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