why would anyone want to be a wedding photographer in the age of Public media ?

faberryman · Mar 3, 2018

I mean no disrespect to wedding photographers, but do brides really need engagement and wedding photos in the thousands? Is this the result of the digital mindset? Are images being sold by the pound? Even a good photographer has only so many keepers. By showing everything you shot, you are just asking for trouble. But maybe thats just the reality wedding photographers have to deal with.

mgb74 · Mar 3, 2018

foc said:
...
How ever I think the photographer left themselves open to dispute by arranging for another photographer to cover the event. I know it wasn't in the contract, but (IMO) why delegate to another photographer when the enquiry and booking was made with Kitty Chan.

Delegating in wedding photography will at some point end badly.

...

IIRC from the article, photography was part of their overall wedding business. Though the lawsuit focused on the photography. But if Chan "sold" the contract based on her (Chan's) photography, outsourcing to another photographer should only be done in an emergency.

Sirius Glass · Mar 3, 2018

faberryman said:
I mean no disrespect to wedding photographers, but do brides really need engagement and wedding photos in the thousands? Is this the result of the digital mindset? Are images being sold by the pound? Even. a good photographer has only so many keepers. By showing everything you shot, you are just asking for trouble. But maybe thats just the reality wedding photographers have to deal with.

Bridezillas want the wedding photographs two weeks or a month before the wedding so that they can post them on the web.

Theo Sulphate · Mar 3, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Bridezillas want the wedding photographs two weeks or a month before the wedding so that they can post them on the web.

If she's getting married in June, she could also have the photographer make a photo of the Belmont Stakes finish so that she could place her bets two weeks early. Winnings should easily cover the cost of the entire wedding plus month-long honeymoon in Italy.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 3, 2018

pdeeh said:
I can't imagine wanting to be a wedding photographer, ever

not for me either;I didn't even do the wedding of my son or my daughter.

jtk · Mar 3, 2018

...what is a "wedding?" Is it a sort of porn?

jtk · Mar 3, 2018

faberryman said:
I mean no disrespect to wedding photographers, but do brides really need engagement and wedding photos in the thousands? Is this the result of the digital mindset? Are images being sold by the pound? Even a good photographer has only so many keepers. By showing everything you shot, you are just asking for trouble. But maybe thats just the reality wedding photographers have to deal with.

Ridiculous to address this as a digital matter. Most wedding photographers have always made their living on prints, not the shoot. Typically they use labs that are wedding specialists and typically they want to show many proof prints, before the expensive enlargements. They don't have time or the skill to proof or to print.

faberryman · Mar 3, 2018

jtk said:
Ridiculous to address this as a digital matter. Most wedding photographers have always made their living on prints, not the shoot. Typically they use labs that are wedding specialists and typically they want to show many proof prints, before the expensive enlargements. They don't have time or the skill to proof or to print.

I am not a wedding photographer, but I do keep up with many aspects of photography, and I don't think I am wrong in saying that with the general transition from film to digital, many more images are being delivered to the bride than before (whether the photographer likes it or not). So I don't think it is ridiculous to address the issue in the digital context. I also surmise that more photographers in the digital age are making their living on the shoot than the prints. I am also dubious that many expensive enlargements are being sold. Hard to get those up on Facebook.

Sirius Glass · Mar 3, 2018

faberryman said:
I mean no disrespect to wedding photographers, but do brides really need engagement and wedding photos in the thousands? Is this the result of the digital mindset? Are images being sold by the pound? Even a good photographer has only so many keepers. By showing everything you shot, you are just asking for trouble. But maybe thats just the reality wedding photographers have to deal with.

Yes, it is a digital thing. Because bridezillas wanted the photographs immediately so that they can be posted, many if not most wedding photographers have switched over to digital. Then the bridezillas wanted the photographs even earlier, as I posted above, they want to post the wedding photographs two weeks before the wedding. Not only are wedding photographers squeezed for time, GWCs and people using there cell phones are photographing and posting as the wedding is in progress. How can a wedding photographer compete with that?!?

foc · Mar 3, 2018

I know we hear a lot about Bridezilla, but I think their numbers vary from country to country and culture to culture. In my experience they were about 2% (my local market) and we only hear about the extreme ones.
Yes wedding photography has become more demanding but that was always the way, it keeps evolving. Brides 30 years ago could be just demanding as brides today, it's just the demands are different. There was always the question of quantity over quality, just in film days you could justify asking extra charge as film costs money. Digital is viewed as being no extra cost, 100 shots or 1000, the one memory card will do.
Regarding posting photos quickly on line is just as much to do with the show off and one upmanship that has always existed between brides and their friends, who had the best dress, the better day, the most images etc.
In a nutshell, the bread and butter of a wedding photographer is the run of the mill wedding for the average price.
I have seen the shooters,the high flyers who demanded top photography fees and a select client list, but like Andy Warol said, they have their 15 minutes of fame. Fran Murphy the average photographer, makes a good living and keeps going but we don'y hear about him/her.

John51 · Mar 5, 2018

Imagine being the new husband while all that was going on?

Wow, have I got a keeper.

jtk · Mar 6, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Yes, it is a digital thing. Because bridezillas wanted the photographs immediately so that they can be posted, many if not most wedding photographers have switched over to digital. Then the bridezillas wanted the photographs even earlier, as I posted above, they want to post the wedding photographs two weeks before the wedding. Not only are wedding photographers squeezed for time, GWCs and people using there cell phones are photographing and posting as the wedding is in progress. How can a wedding photographer compete with that?!?

There are 2 kinds of wedding photographers in my city: people who are pretending and people who are members of studio staff/teams. The studios offer video along with still and the customers usually want that... they typically cover a wedding with two photographers, in addition to the videographer. The wedding package typically costs $3000+.

The stuff that gets posted first online isn't pro work...everybody has a phone... serious pros and many priests/pastors forbid photography of the wedding by anybody other than the authorized photographer...and even for them the moments and occasions for the photos are frequently specified...

IMO old men (I'm one) are frequently (as in this thread) negative about brides and families, which explains why they get the dregs of the business. Me, I'm negative about weddings in general (as opposed to love affairs that may last a lifetime or a lot less).

trendland · Mar 6, 2018

aramo said:
I have fun shooting wedding. It is challenging in many ways. I guess if you don't like dealing with people thats not a best choice ))

It may depend on the type of people you are dealing with.
with regards

wiltw · Mar 6, 2018

faberryman said:
I mean no disrespect to wedding photographers, but do brides really need engagement and wedding photos in the thousands? Is this the result of the digital mindset? Are images being sold by the pound? Even a good photographer has only so many keepers. By showing everything you shot, you are just asking for trouble. But maybe thats just the reality wedding photographers have to deal with.

I could not believe it when our daughters started getting married, and digital photographers were hired. Photos in the THOUSANDS! Our youngest has always been short on decision making timeliness, and having 3500 photos to choose from has done her no good at all...she has now been married for about 4 years and still has not chosen final images for the album to which she is entitled. Pregnant for the second time, and no choice of photos yet. Photographers THINK they are doing favors for brides in the number of choices, not thinking they are actually doing a disfavor.

I have shot my share of weddings professionally. We used to deliver perhaps 300 shots, not 3000. We used to send film to wedding labs for processing and proofs, and for final prints. Digital photographers can spend hours at the computer with postprocessing, rather than send the work out. No thanks, I would not want to do weddings in the digital age...yes, recovery of errors in postprocessing now possible, but there are too many other Cons in the business today.

faberryman · Mar 6, 2018

wiltw said:
Photographers THINK they are doing favors for brides in the number of choices, not thinking they are actually doing a disfavor.

I thought brides wanted to see everything and make the selections themselves.

trendland · Mar 6, 2018

Harry Stevens said:
I should be a wedding photography because when the customer and everybody else sees my work then at least we would all agree that I deserved to be sued

.............Honestly the job sounds like a legal nightmare.

The wedding of Count Drakula coul't be an experience of suspence. But you may have toughts : "Vampires are never married " ?
First have a look at "normal" wedding aesthetics!
I did it one time with a short job. But not as a "photographer". A friend asked me if I need some bucks - I can't imagine why? I was just the driver. I did the job from special interest because the car was an older Rolls-Royce (50th type).
The job wasn't nice because of the people. But I noticed the hell on earth the wedding photographer lived in......
At last I was ask about special thinks -
"do you have this , can you help us there,
are you familiar with."
I feld as the personal butler
And the Rolls made also no fun while driving : " Bad road situation "

with regards

PS : I did not crashed the Rolls but I was
amoused of temporarily "heard attacks"
of the passengers.....

PPS :"Noblesse oblige" within this upper class does not include to be able to cop with live - I learned this day.
And I never ask about money for this 5hours job - I realy did not need it.
Same is with : TO BECOME A WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHER

wiltw · Mar 6, 2018

faberryman said:
I thought brides wanted to see everything and make the selections themselves.

You must be kidding, that brides know what they want. They THINK they know, not understanding the downsides. Witness our youngest, whose sisters all had thousands of images...they could choose, she cannot! She has a DVD full of images, her mother has a copy...no need for final album, the decision can be put off.

faberryman · Mar 6, 2018

wiltw said:
You must be kidding, that brides know what they want. They THINK they know, not understanding the downsides. Witness our youngest, whose sisters all had thousands of images...they could choose, she cannot! She has a DVD full of images, her mother has a copy...no need for final album, the decision can be put off.

Did she specify that she wanted the photographer to deliver the 300 best images or all the images?

wiltw · Mar 6, 2018

faberryman said:
Did she specify that she wanted the photographer to deliver the 300 best images or all the images?

Not that I know of! her sisters had thousands of images and albums with relatively small number of prints. So she chose a photographer (a different one from her sisters' choices) who also provided thousands of images (and video coverage). I know better than to tell any of them what they might consider in choice of photographers or numbers of photos. Old age has no wisdom in certain areas. Not putting disposable cameras at each table (because they largely get used by children at the wedding as diversions for the parents to take advantage of) is another example of lack of wisdom of experience.

jtk · Mar 7, 2018

The two top wedding photographers in my city are actually these: #1 A team of as many as 3, including the studio owner #2 a team of several from a pool of a dozen well-supervised and/or highly accomplished employee-photographers.

In all cases their brides (et al) select from images SHOWN IN STUDIO VIEWING ...select from images already edited down by the pros. Bride et al get NOTHING for free...they select and pay for the enlargements etc. Viewing is done with monitor enclosed in very nice frame (studios sometimes sell frames). I'm told minimum expectation for a wedding, including those selected enlargements and whatevers, is $2500. These folks are pros, not typical wedding wannabes. Bride et al don't receive a large selection of files for Facebook or whatever...they know that in advance. Pros select their clients and the other way around...no desperation.

removed account4 · Mar 7, 2018

jtk said:
IMO old men (I'm one) are frequently (as in this thread) negative about brides and families, which explains why they get the dregs of the business. Me, I'm negative about weddings in general (as opposed to love affairs that may last a lifetime or a lot less).

hello jtk

i don't think the people involved are the dregs of anything. i think we live in a capitalistic dog eat dog world
and some people feel they are entitled to do whatever they want. ( american industrial empires in the 1800-1900s worked like that )
there have always been people who are scoundrels and take advantage of others for their own benefit whether it is a newly married couple who
realize they can't afford the 15 thousand dollars they were supposed to pay their wedding photographer,
the district court judge who felt like bankrupting a dry cleaner because HE forgot his ticket, or a real estate developer who rolls into town
and leaves owing hundreds of thousands of dollars of pay to people who were local and worked for them ...

personally, i think everyone in this country should have a job working at a retail store at a register or coffee shop or whatever
for at least a year. it seems people would be a lot nicer to eachother or at least to the person who is selling them a service
if they saw how 1 in 10 people are a jerk ( because of a dire circumstances, or because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed )
unfortunately too many people feel entitled to do whatever they want, which may or may not include ripping someone behind the counter's head off
screwing a home improvement company out of thousands of dollars because you dont' like the work they did, smear campaigns against photographers &c...

and we all thought this was "kinder gentler nation"

jtk · Mar 7, 2018

jnanian said:
hello jtk

i don't think the people involved are the dregs of anything. i think we live in a capitalistic dog eat dog world
and some people feel they are entitled to do whatever they want. ( american industrial empires in the 1800-1900s worked like that )
there have always been people who are scoundrels and take advantage of others for their own benefit whether it is a newly married couple who
realize they can't afford the 15 thousand dollars they were supposed to pay their wedding photographer,
the district court judge who felt like bankrupting a dry cleaner because HE forgot his ticket, or a real estate developer who rolls into town
and leaves owing hundreds of thousands of dollars of pay to people who were local and worked for them ...

personally, i think everyone in this country should have a job working at a retail store at a register or coffee shop or whatever
for at least a year. it seems people would be a lot nicer to eachother or at least to the person who is selling them a service
if they saw how 1 in 10 people are a jerk ( because of a dire circumstances, or because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed )
unfortunately too many people feel entitled to do whatever they want, which may or may not include ripping someone behind the counter's head off
screwing a home improvement company out of thousands of dollars because you dont' like the work they did, smear campaigns against photographers &c...

and we all thought this was "kinder gentler nation"

Won't argue against any of that. Will just point out that sometimes it's better to target "better" markets and avoid sure-loss-farms.

People "starting out" in what they hope will be "for profit" photography might be smarter to avoid weddings and seek opportunities to assist pros...who are often eager to find someone who will help them for very few dollars I knew many pros in San Francisco who started as assistants (even one who started as a bicycle messenger in SF after assisting Penn in NYC in order to figure out who was doing what in commercial photography in a tougher city than NYC.

removed account4 · Mar 7, 2018

yup
around here a lot of the people assisted local pros ( who were cagey you were going to steal their clients ) and they also
worked in pro labs back in the glory days .. and saw what was being done who for whom. in boston it was the same sort of thing
and they had 2x as many pro labs ... it was a crazy time ... bikemessenger is a great job.. not many here in RI, but in boston
in order to be one, you need tatoos, piercings, scars and a liver that is working.

Julian Ribinik · Jan 2, 2019

Thanks for the post!!!!

Mainecoonmaniac · Jan 2, 2019

Here's another case 4 years ago. Gary Fong of Lightsphere fame came to this photographer's aid.

https://petapixel.com/2014/12/09/gary-fong-account-ridiculous-300000-lawsuit-threat-nelson-tang/

why would anyone want to be a wedding photographer in the age of Public media ?

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