Why use a mamiya press? What to expect and what should I pay?

[kingbuzzie]

On my very long and slow journey away from 35mm and toward medium format, I'm thinking of a mamiya press. Are the lenses good for color? Are there bad lenses? What should I look for and expect to pay?

 

[Paul Howell]

I have a Universal, actually 2 bodies, a 4 lens kit and 6X9 and 6X7 backs. Have not shot a lot of color, just a few wedding but color is very nice, the lens are well coated. I like the 6X9 format, very similar to 35mm in ratio. As the shutters are in the lens, upside if one lens shutter is off the others are still workable, downside, is that each lens needs to be maintained. Flash syc at all speeds is nice, the viewfinder on my Universal is bright as brights lines for 100, 150, and 250, need a separate viewfinder for the wide lens. With grip easy to hold, but you need to cock the shutter sort of an annoyance. The lens are somewhat on the slow side, my 65mm is 6.3. Overall the lens are sharp, good contrast. The press series was made for rugged professional use. What to look for for, lens made for Polaroid virsions do not work well on the standard press. Last a heavy camera, my 4X5 Crown is lighter.

 

[Paul Howell]

BTW in terms of price, search Ebay, disgrad the offers from Japan, watch for a few days, record the prices, take an average, high and low. The in terms of age, Press 23 was followed by the Universal last of the breed.

 

[Dennis-B]

BTW in terms of price, search Ebay, disgrad the offers from Japan, watch for a few days, record the prices, take an average, high and low. The in terms of age, Press 23 was followed by the Universal last of the breed.

You may not get the answer by ignoring the Japanese sellers. They comprise, by far, the largest number of Mamiya Universals. They're prices are competitive, and if they ship something, it's as good as in your hands. I've bought literally thousands of dollars in equipment from them, and they've been honest, fair, and the equipment they rate "good" is nearly mint.

Case in point. I looked fruitlessly for a Fujinon 75mm SWD f/5.6 here in the U.S. The supplier not only had the one I wanted, but his shipping took four days from Japan (75 miles from Tokyo), to my front door.

 

[Paul Howell]

I'll keep that in mind, so far I've found what I need from American sellers, but who knows.

 

[reddesert]

The Mamiya Press / Super 23 / Universal is a system camera, meaning there were all sorts of accessories and add-ons made for it, some of them still useful, some perhaps less so. They are essentially a large box with a rangefinder, to which lenses, film backs, and grips can be attached. A few items of note:

- it's big, like really big. With the grip and M back it's actually not hard to hand-hold (no mirror shake), but it is not subtle or light.

- relatively inexpensive way to get a large image; most system parts are fairly cheap except for the rarest lenses.

- there are no interlocks, meaning you can forget to cock the shutter, accidentally double expose, take pictures with the dark slide in, take the back or lens off without remembering to put the dark slide in, etc. On the other hand, it means there are not complicated mechanisms to jam. But expect a learning curve vs 35mm.

- it's 50 years old by now, so condition matters. Most pieces of the system are pretty robust. But look out for possible hazy lenses, sluggish shutters, rough focusing helicals. For ex, I have a couple of lenses that now have frozen helicals from old grease, and one of them I've had myself for 25 years (though it sat unused for a long time), so it's sort of my fault. I have yet to try heating it to free it up.

There are a few variants to be aware of - for ex, most of them use the "M" type Mamiya roll film backs, but occasionally you see one that has a "G" type Graflok back. Some of the models have rear tilt and swing, but you need a ground-glass back and a lens that retracts to use it.

 

[gordrob]

I have both the Universal and the Super 23 and have used them both for the last 20 years or more. The Super 23 with a 100mm lens, back and grip probably weighs in at just over 4lbs.. Heavy - maybe - but not compared to a Linhof 4x5 Super Technika V at 6 lbs or the 5x7 Super Technika V at 12 lbs +.that I use handheld. The trade off of the weight versus the excellent lenses and the reputation of the film flatness that the backs gives is a no brainer for me. I have a 50mm f6.3, 65mm f6.e, 200 f2.8 and the 250mm f5 lenses and they are all sharp lenses. The Super 23 is easy to use hand held. I have 4 - 6X9 backs that allow me to use colour print, transparency and B&W film. Backs are easily interchangeable in the field. You can also use ground glass focusing for regular shot or macro photos. In addition to film backs you can also use cut 2X3 film holders. It is a very versatile camera. I have attached an interesting review of the camera that explains a lot of the workings of the camera.

https://emulsive.org/reviews/camera...3-and-mamiya-universal-press-by-kikie-wilkins

 

[Daire Quinlan]

Yeah ditto re: experiences with Japanese sellers as above, I've bought a few things from Japanese sellers, from my searches in general they do seem to be pretty competitively priced, and reliable, and the descriptions tend to be spot on, certainly from what I've bought.

I've really enjoyed shooting with my press, I only ever got the 100mm retractable, but I've gotten some nice shots from it. I got the ground glass back to shoot glass plates ( I went on a 6.5x9cm glass plate binge a few years ago) and I -also- got the auto back, which provides at least some of the linkage between the back and the shutter, provides a handgrip and a shutter button with interlocked advance, so that's a neat thing to have. Caveat being it can be fiddle occasionally, and if you lose the cable for it it's just an overpriced normal back. Did I mention the cable isn't too securely attached ? I once walked 3KM back up a mountain searching every cm of the way until eureka ! I found it snagged on a branch, having somehow managed to make its way loose from both the lens attachment and the back :-D

Ergonomics wise it's a mixed bag though. Huge viewfinder, great rangefinder, but every bit of the camera sticks out perpendicularly to every other bit, which makes carrying it around a bit of a PITA sometimes.

 

[blockend]

Handling is more akin to large format, slow and studied. If you want a MF point and shoot, later Mamiya rangefinders are the way to go. On its own terms the Press/Universal is an excellent camera, versatile and with good lenses, I used one for work. "Press" is a relative term, compared to a Speed Graphic its journalistic pretensions may be sincere - in comparison to everything else it's a studio camera. With slow colour negative film at 6 x 9 there are few cameras to match its output.

 

[Dan Fromm]

KB, Mamiya Press cameras are system cameras. They're limited to the system lenses. Other lenses can be adapted, but AFAIK can't be RF-coupled.

When I was thinking about moving up in format from 35 mm still, the Mamiya Press system was on the short list. I ended up with 2x3 Graphics, which are somewhat more flexible, and with many too many lenses for them. For most purposes -- not close up work -- a Super 23 or Universal with lenses in good order wouldn't be a bad mistake. Much more user friendly than my little Graphics.

 

[Paul Howell]

Although desinged to be hand held, the 2 stroke film advance and needing to cock the shutter slows it down. For fast or rapid the Konica Rapid 100 and 200, uses a ratchet advance, very quick, one pull, film is advanced the shutter cocked. Downside is that the rathcet advance are prone to wear, finding replacment parts, well maybe a doner body, but the ratchet will still be worn.

 

[Dan Fromm]

The other downside of the Koni Omega/Rapid Omega system is that it is strictly 6x7.

When I was contemplating moving up in format, I had A. A. Blaker's advice (in his book Field Photography) that moves up which didn't at least double both edges of the frame weren't worth the expense and bother firmly in mind. That ruled out 6x7 for me.

Many people don't agree with Blaker, see even moving from 24x36 to 645 as worth doing.

 

[reddesert]

There are websites that go over the Mamiya Press / Super and the manual is online. It's mostly pretty easy to figure out. The one thing that isn't often explained is the difference in viewfinders. The original models are the Press / Standard, usually a sort of green/gray body, with a slightly tapered top. The later models are the Super 23 and Universal, either chrome or black, with a squared off rectangular top. They take mostly the same lenses and M type roll film backs.

The Super 23 style bodies are a bit larger but the viewfinder is more luxurious, with projected framelines switchable for 100/150/250mm lenses. The earlier Press has a smaller, squintier VF for the 90mm field of view, and there are some masks you can fit over the front to mask it for the 150mm lens and/or 6x7 instead of 6x9. These masks, like the auxiliary viewfinders for the wide-angle lenses, are a nuisance to find after the fact if you don't get them with the lens or outfit.

When I first got one of these in the 90s, the Super 23 was more expensive than the Press due to being more advanced, and the Universal was most in demand due to the ability to take a Polaroid packfilm back (much less useful now). Now, it just depends on what sort of deal you can find.

 

[Paul Howell]

I just bought a 23 with glass back with what I think is the Macro or close up frame that attaches to back, comes with a 150 which I alread have, I dont hink the glass back fits the Universal so need to find the manual and see how it works. Also comes with a few 6X9 film holders so I need to buy pack of 6X9 sheet film, I think Freestyle carries it.

 

[bunip]

Why use a mamiya press?
Surely for its spectacular 50mm that on 6x9 format is quite wide. And on my opinion is one of the best lenses of the system. I printed at 1m wide with sharp details.
What to expect and what should I pay?
I bought mine here in Italy for 200 euros (camera, 6x9 back, hardcase, 100mm, filters, handgrip, gglass and holders, lens shade) 200 euros for the 50mm, 100 for the 65mm. 30 for a second back.
you can use the 65mm without the dedicated finder (all what you see in the regular finder around the 100mm lines is what you get in the picture with 65mm) and the same is for the 50mm with the 65 rangefinder.

 

[villagephotog]

Adding a couple of random bits:

As others have said, it's a very versatile system (many choices for film formats, lenses, accessories, etc.), rugged, and capable of top-notch results, in either color or black-and-white. But it's large, a bit on the slow side to operate, and no safety interlocks, which will bite you occasionally until you train yourself properly. (I'm still working on that part.)

After taking my Universal on a long-ish road trip, I found that I really disliked how unhandy it is to pack and carry with the M-type backs (those are the S-shaped ones). The Universal (unlike other models in the Press lineup) can use Graflok-style (G-type) backs instead, so I'm doing that, and it slims down the camera's effective profile quite a bit. But I'm probably an outlier there because I'm using it without a grip either, so I'm cradling the camera a bit like a Hasselblad or RB67.

On Japanese sellers: I've had plenty of good experiences with them, but, apparently unlike others on this thread, I've also had a couple of sketchy purchases. One of those was my Mamiya Press 50mm f/6.3 lens, which was badly misaligned optically. Obviously, it's possible that the seller didn't know that, but it's also depressingly common these days on eBay (and elsewhere) for people to sell things they know have hidden defects and wait for you to discover them. If you do, they'll refund your money or take it back, but they are clearly hoping you won't discover it. To my regret (and I won't make this mistake again), I didn't do the necessary tests until long after I could reasonably return it or ask for a refund. I had a similar thing happen with a Canon rangefinder lens from Japan (although I spotted that right away). So I'm very careful with eBay purchases now, in ways that I didn't need to be 15 years ago, and that applies to Japanese sellers just as much as to sellers from anywhere else.

 

[Arthurwg]

Although I've bought a few things from Japanese sellers on Ebay, I generally try to avoid them. They are often overpriced and their grading system is ridiculous. I saw something I was interested in, rated MINT. I sent him a question, saying the item was scratched and corroded. He replied that I was right and downgraded his rating to E++++, whatever that means.

 

[bunip]

about japanese sellers we're lucky to have here the member B.S.Kumar https://www.photrio.com/forum/members/b-s-kumar.20965/ who is a gentleman and very competent seller, has best prices on the web and over all support every sale with a perfect customer care. When I bought my toyo original field camera he sold me as "for spares only" a perfectly functioning mamiya press body (20 euro).

 

[Paul Howell]

Just got the press body, ground glass back, a black 150mm with lens hood, and 6X9 back with dark slide The body is in pretty rough shape, will need to find screws to tighten it up, one of the knobs that gives some front lift is broken off. What surprised me is how much lighter it is than my Universal, don't have a scale but seem about 1/2. Viewfinder is set for the 90mm, has a mask for the 150, the lens mount is a bayonet mount, not the breech mount, but the lens will work in both versions, not parallax corrected, must be corrected on the view finder. Still, once I get it tightened up, with the sheet back and few holders might be my hiking camera. Body, ground glass back, 100 and 65 or 50mm lens, 6 or so film holders. I need to buy some 6X9 sheet film.

 

[Ian Grant]

Although desinged to be hand held, the 2 stroke film advance and needing to cock the shutter slows it down. For fast or rapid the Konica Rapid 100 and 200, uses a ratchet advance, very quick, one pull, film is advanced the shutter cocked. Downside is that the rathcet advance are prone to wear, finding replacment parts, well maybe a doner body, but the ratchet will still be worn.

In practice you can work very fast hand held, it's jsut experience or rather familiarity with the equipment. I'm predominantly an LF shooter and do use 5x4 regularly hand held and have to focus on the GG screen then add the DDS film kolder.

I think I'd be more worried that these cameras are getting old and take dedicated lenses, it's over 30 years since I saw a well known (UK/Scotland) landscape photographer Peter Cattrell use a Mamiya Press.

Dan Fromm's suggestion of a Miniature Graphic leaves you free to use amny shuttered lenses that'll fit. I went down a cheap Bisch Pressman route but the lens boards aren't interchangeable (in the field) and are small so many lenses won't fit, but it was dirt cheap. I amde my own 6x7 field camera in the end, obe issue as you move to MF is are some movement suefull, I found I was missing shots with a Mamiya 645, I wanted some front tilt, I should add I'd used a large Whole plate monorail and Half Plate and 5x4 backs with plenty of movements for a decade so knew what I was missing

I use my Super and Crown Graphics hand held with front tilts, I don't know if Dan does the same with his smaller Roll film Graphics, the wire finder moves with the front standard, and it works with all FL lenses as well, except Telephotos. Dan could tell you which is the best Roll film Graphic, you need a Graflok bak ideally. My Pressman has been converted to take Graflex and similar RF backs

Ian

 

[Paul Howell]

With a Mamiya or other press type camera, Horseman, LIndloff, with camed lens the rangefinder will couple will all lens. Most Crowns and Speed you are stuck with the lens camed or with the focus arm for that particular body. If you're shooting landscapes at infinity and have a good mask or viewfinder for a wide angle lens not much a problem to use a non coupled lens. But if need you need accurate focusing you have to put on the ground glass back, focus, then swap over to the roll film back, or use sheet film. 6X9 sheet is hard to find, and very limited emulsions. In terms of being slow, as Ian says, with experience it becomes second nature. I've shot a few wedding, cooperate events, a couple of travel assignments with my Mamiyas, dont think I could have it with a baby crown or speed.

 

[halfaman]

I have a Mamiya Super 23 with 50, 75 and 100 f/2.8 mm lenses. Camera handling is ok but the lack of any kind of interlocks between body, lenses or back makes me do mistakes. Double exposures and frames fogged is typical when I use this camera. Viewfinder is a bit dim due to a blue mist developed with the pass of time. Rangefinder patch is clear but not very precise to nail focus with narrow depth of field. I use it without the grip, less weight and usability is about the same.

About the lenses

- 50 mm f/5.6 mm is a a very good Biogon lens (a copy of one of the original Ludwig Bertele desings for Zeiss) but extremely prone to flares, even with the hood you can get some if there is direct sunlight anywhere. Dedicated viewfinder has some much distorsion that it is impossible to know if your framing is straight or not.
- 75 mm f/5.6 mm is the best wide angle of the whole system. Sharp, constrasty, no distorsion, excellent flare resistance... The only bad thing is again the viewfinder. Same comments than with the 50 mm. It has an extended image circle for Polaroid format, almost cover 4x5''.
- 100 mm f/2.8 is another copy of a Zeiss lens (planar desing in this case). Very nice. Sharp and contrasty. Bokeh is smooth on close focus, but rather busy on medium distances. You need also a good rangefinder calibration if you want to use it wide open. A little yellowish cast compared to other lenses... radioactive glass? I don't know.

A bit primitive system but very capable in good hands.

 

[Paul Howell]

I think the rangefinde on the Universal must be better than the press or Super 23, I have no issue when using my wides, focus has always been spot on. Although I am wedded to Mamiya, if I win a lottery I would get a Lindoff or Horseman with a set of matched lens, a couple of backs, ground glass back, just a more elegant design. Still the Press system is rugged, complete with many accessories, and cheap enough to buy a spear body for parts.

 

[Neil Poulsen]

I have a Mamiya Press Universal with 50mm, 65mm, 100mm, 150mm, and the 250mm f5 lenses. I like it's design. for 50mm and 65mm (and for that matter, 75mm) lenses have a viewer that fits atop the camera. Works fine for wide angles, because for wide angle lenses, one needs only an approximation of the frame.

However, internal, parallax frame lines are provided for 100mm, 150mm and 250 lenses. Works great, because it's for those focal lengths that frame lines are needed.

So, this all works well for hand-held photography. But, if one needs more rigor and precision, there are ground glass attachments for direct, ground glass viewing, composing, and focusing. As indicated, a well designed camera.

I also have a Mamiya RB67 S-Pro outfit with lenses and accessories. But do I need this system, given that I have a Universal outfit? I doubt it. I have a friend who's interested in my RB kit. If he ask's it's his for a good price.

 

[Dennis-B]

Okay, I've followed this discussion, and I finally couldn't resist the urge any longer. I've done eBay searches, selected only US sellers, and failed to find any examples I wanted; changed the parameters, and got a huge number of hits, mostly from Japanese sellers. While they tend to use "form" ratings, the pictures of the products have been a fairly accurate portrayal of cosmetic quality. Yesterday, I pulled the trigger on one which fit my wants. I used "Buy It Now", paid for the purchase, and within an hour received an email from the seller telling me that he was cancelling the sale, and refunding my money, owing to the COVID pandemic. I tried again today, with another seller, so we'll see how this transaction goes. Stay tuned...

PS - Earlier this month, I bought a LF Fujinon SWD 75mm f.5.6 from a Japanese seller 50 miles from Tokyo. I received it four days after the order.