Why LEICA M lenses are so expensive...'

Sirius Glass · May 25, 2023

Nikon 2 said:
Rangefinder cameras tend to have better results than SLR cameras.
Rangefinder cameras tend to have better results than SLR cameras.
They don’t have the mirror vibration either.
It’s the camera most likely than the lenses…!

Rangefinder cameras tend to have better results than SLR cameras. No true. That depend on the photographer as long as it is in the 21mm to 135mm range. Outside that range SLR cameras do much better.
Rangefinder cameras tend to have better results than SLR cameras. Again not true SLR are just as fast manually and faster with autofocus.
They don’t have the mirror vibration either. Neither do SLRs at shutter speed that can be hand held and SLRs have mirror lockups which can be used for slower speeds.

Sirius Glass · May 25, 2023

ic-racer said:
The problem with rangefinder cameras is that they are harder to focus, the lenses are very expensive, and the cameras don't have matrix metering or autofocus. So not much use to me.

I don't recall but the Leica M comes with with a tripod, to utilize the lens resolution, right?

Nailed it. Plus it is much easier to use and see what the results will be with polarizers on SLRs.

Sirius Glass · May 25, 2023

Radost said:
Because at $4:20 per roll for black and white and $4:20 per roll for color film it is economical. 120 is expansive

Expansive is the word. The larger negative is easier to use and if necessary can handle bigger enlargements. Even cropping is easier.

BMbikerider · May 25, 2023

ic-racer said:
The problem with rangefinder cameras is that they are harder to focus, the lenses are very expensive, and the cameras don't have matrix metering or autofocus. So not much use to me.

I don't recall but the Leica M comes with with a tripod, to utilize the lens resolution, right?

Matrix metering is a lazy persons way of getting it right. I use a Nikon F2a which only has centre weighted metering which is as good as the matrix on my D700. You just need to know the area of acceptance of the image forming light that matters. In the case of the F2a with a standard screen with a split image the zone to use is the engraved circle outside the microprism area. I have not owned it for very long and with the 4-5 36 exp films I have used since I bought the camera, I have had perhaps 8 failures which I will put down to getting used to the camera.

I don't know if it is your sense of humour(?) but I have never known any Leica come with a tripod. The lenses are very, very good and the performance is only improved by the use of a 3 legged friend and a cable release as is the case with most other cameras.

Sirius Glass · May 25, 2023

BMbikerider said:
Matrix metering is a lazy persons way of getting it right. I use a Nikon F2a which only has centre weighted metering which is as good as the matrix on my D700. You just need to know the area of acceptance of the image forming light that matters. In the case of the F2a with a standard screen with a split image the zone to use is the engraved circle outside the microprism area. I have not owned it for very long and with the 4-5 36 exp films I have used since I bought the camera, I have had perhaps 8 failures which I will put down to getting used to the camera.

I don't know if it is your sense of humour(?) but I have never known any Leica come with a tripod. The lenses are very, very good and the performance is only improved by the use of a 3 legged friend and a cable release as is the case with most other cameras.

Matrix metering has nothing to do with laziness. It is an approach used to collect light samples over a larger range and use algorithms to find the exposure settings.

faberryman · May 25, 2023

BMbikerider said:
Matrix metering is a lazy persons way of getting it right.I use a Nikon F2a which only has centre weighted metering...

A built-in meter, like the one in your Nikon F2a, is a lazy person's way of getting it right. Real men use a hand-held incident and/or spotmeter.

Patrick Robert James · May 25, 2023

faberryman said:
A built-in meter, like the one in your Nikon F2a, is a lazy person's way of getting it right. Real men use a hand-held incident and/or spotmeter.

Nah, real men don't use meters.

DREW WILEY · May 25, 2023

The biggest problem I have with RF's is that they're so limited when it comes to long lenses.

Sirius Glass · May 25, 2023

DREW WILEY said:
The biggest problem I have with RF's is that they're so limited when it comes to long lenses.

And ultra wide lenses.

Pieter12 · May 25, 2023

Barry Thornton did a tripod.sharpness test in his book, The Edge of Darkness.

Pieter12 · May 25, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
And ultra wide lenses.

You just need an auxiliary viewfinder and focus by judgement. Like the SWC.

faberryman · May 25, 2023

Patrick Robert James said:
Nah, real men don't use meters.

Not using a meter is the epitome of laziness.

Pieter12 · May 25, 2023

faberryman said:
Not using a meter is the epitome of laziness.

No, it means using your head rather than relying on a device.

faberryman · May 25, 2023

Pieter12 said:
No, it means using your head rather than relying on a device.

Do you use a thermometer and a timer when you develop film, or do you just use your head? There is nothing mensch about not using an exposure meter.

Pieter12 · May 25, 2023

faberryman said:
Do you use a thermometer and a timer when you develop film, or do you just use your head? There is nothing mensch about not using an exposure meter.

Apples and oranges. BW film has tremendous exposure latitude

Nikon 2 · May 25, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Nailed it. Plus it is much easier to use and see what the results will be with polarizers on SLRs.

Nikon 2 · May 25, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
Rangefinder cameras tend to have better results than SLR cameras. No true. That depend on the photographer as long as it is in the 21mm to 135mm range. Outside that range SLR cameras do much better.
Rangefinder cameras tend to have better results than SLR cameras. Again not true SLR are just as fast manually and faster with autofocus.
They don’t have the mirror vibration either. Neither do SLRs at shutter speed that can be hand held and SLRs have mirror lockups which can be used for slower speeds.

faberryman · May 25, 2023

Source of attachment?

Nikon 2 · May 25, 2023

faberryman said:
Source of attachment?

Nikon 2 · May 25, 2023

ic-racer said:
The problem with rangefinder cameras is that they are harder to focus, the lenses are very expensive, and the cameras don't have matrix metering or autofocus. So not much use to me.

I don't recall but the Leica M comes with with a tripod, to utilize the lens resolution, right?

DREW WILEY · May 25, 2023

Nikon 2 - what is that posted illustration meant to imply? How to rig a jury? A compact fixed focal-length RF lens versus a huge SLR zoom one! How about a fair boxing match? There are plenty of SLR "pancake" lenses too, although once you get down to especially short focal focal lengths they need to be retrofocus design. What you're trying to do is make all rodents seem like they're as big as a capybara.

Well, I shouldn't place the blame on you personally, but on whoever attached that picture rather deceptively to their propagandistic article. They selectively cite the pros of RF's, but not the cons.
Your own web identity makes it obvious you're an SLR devotee.

faberryman · May 25, 2023

Ah, Ken Rockwell.

faberryman · May 25, 2023

faberryman said:
PDo you use a thermometer and a timer when you develop film, or do you just use your head? There is nothing mensch about not using an exposure meter.

Pieter12 said:
Apples and oranges. BW film has tremendous exposure latitude

Interesting dichotomy.

4season · May 25, 2023

IME up to 2011 (when I divested myself of the M-system), Leica was the #1 brand most likely to need after-sales service in order to sort out quality/engineering issues, it was handled by Leica USA in a reasonably professional manner, and I was satisfied with my purchases, although I was well aware that far-cheaper cameras were better picture-taking machines in some regards.

Part of the fun is the improbability of a classic-style rangefinder system in the 21st century, and kudos to Leica for continuing to dribble out small quantities of the things on behalf of enthusiasts who want such things. No, it's not entirely logical, but I think oftentimes we base purchasing decisions with our hearts, not our heads.

The one detail in modern M cameras which really stood out for me were the strap lugs: It's a silly little detail, but they appeared to be carved from steel and beautifully satin-finished.

snusmumriken · May 25, 2023

BMbikerider said:
I don't know if it is your sense of humour(?) but I have never known any Leica come with a tripod. The lenses are very, very good and the performance is only improved by the use of a 3 legged friend and a cable release as is the case with most other cameras.

I think you are getting to the central issue here. Modern lenses are so good that you will rarely be able to see differences between them using hand-held shutter speeds, especially for older men like most of us seem to be.

Of course it’s nice when you do nail it, and it’s also nice not to feel limited by your equipment. I’m not going to apologise for my choice of equipment. I haven’t had the luxury of trying many options, but I have been through some unsatisfactory ones.

Why LEICA M lenses are so expensive...'

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Why LEICA M lenses are so expensive...'

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