Why LEICA M lenses are so expensive...'

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

I’m beginning to understand the lenses for rangefinder systems require more refinement than those used for SLR’s.
This could be the reason they cost so much...!

Sirius Glass · May 23, 2023

The Zeiss optics for starters.
Quality
Reliability
Demand
Supply

madNbad · May 23, 2023

Labor cost. Production is much more expensive in the EU than in Asia.

Dan Fromm · May 23, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
The Zeiss optics for starters.
Quality
Reliability
Demand
Supply

Eh? Wot? The OP asked about lenses for LEICA M cameras.

Sirius Glass · May 23, 2023

Dan Fromm said:
Eh? Wot? The OP asked about lenses for LEICA M cameras.

Without superior optics the camera is nothing. I found that nothing feels like a Leica M camera than any other 35mm camera including SLRs.

Pieter12 · May 23, 2023

If you think Leica's M lenses are expensive, try pricing the S lenses.

4season · May 23, 2023

Leica has positioned themselves as a luxury-products company: For a time, they were a part of LVMH, and more recently, they've ventured into the automatic wristwatch market.

Pieter12 · May 23, 2023

4season said:
Leica has positioned themselves as a luxury-products company: For a time, they were a part of LVMH, and more recently, they've ventured into the automatic wristwatch market.

Not sure where you got that information. I cannot find any source that verifies LVMH's ownership of Leica AG at any time.

Nicholas Lindan · May 23, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I cannot find any source that verifies LVMH's ownership of Leica AG at any time.

It comes under the rubric "It sounds so good it must be true!"

greg zinselmeier · May 23, 2023

Regardless of cost to produce , what is the market willing to pay? 35mm is very popular compared to 2 1/4 to 4x5 or larger.

On a side note, taking a photograph with either M lenses, or SLR lenses, you are dealing with a foot print issue of 24mm x 36mm . Vs. everything that is bigger. I seriously can’t take seriously the cost issues of M lenses when all I get is 24 x36 . AFAIK 35mm is a very weak format, however very popular!!!!

greg zinselmeier · May 23, 2023

Nikon 2 said:
I’m beginning to understand the lenses for rangefinder systems require more refinement than those used for SLR’s.
This could be the reason they cost so much...!

Please explain “ refinement “. What do you mean? There is optics, design and manufacturing. Of optics. then there is helical issues with alignment of rangefinder.

Then of course everything else of being a good photographer

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

greg zinselmeier said:
Please explain “ refinement “. What do you mean? There is optics, design and manufacturing. Of optics. then there is helical issues with alignment of rangefinder.

Then of course everything else of being a good photographer

Refined to offer the best quality for the rangefinder systems...!

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

Does a rangefinder require a better designed lens than the SLR...?

Radost · May 23, 2023

Nikon 2 said:
Does a rangefinder require a better designed lens than the SLR...?

Actually when it comes to wides it is the opposite. A lot easier to make a good wide on a Smaller flange distance.
This is why I never understood “apart from people desire to use vintage inferior lenses for softness and inferior or lack of coating” why PL mount lenses are still a thing. You can save so much in size, cost, ,materials and simplified design making smaller flange lenses.

greg zinselmeier · May 23, 2023

Nikon 2 said:
Refined to offer the best quality for the rangefinder systems...!

I think you are begging the question! No response needed. You are making assumptions that are not true. Advertising has gotten to you.

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

So is it true that rangefinder designers have more freedom to use more rear elements than SLR designers...?

NortheastPhotographic · May 23, 2023

Personally I'm of two minds. I find their luxury strategy, frankly a little gross. I mean their 50/1.4 is $4500 bucks. If you take the red-dot of it all out that's just laughable. I feel like we're all better off that Leica is making 3 different film cameras, but then again all of them are in that laughable price range...and there are plenty of stories of questionable construction.

I can tell you what's great...finding a mint M4-P and using the CV classic line lenses. The 50/1.5II, 35/1.5, 28/2, 21/3.5...all world class optics for a relative steal. I use the 35/1.5, 50/1.5II, and 21/1.8 and I am very happy. On my F2 I use the 55/1.2 and 40/2. You could say I'm quite smitten with Voigtlander lenses. I just wish they'd bring back the Bessa III aka GF670.

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

Since the rangefinder lens is closer to the film plane than the SLR lens, doesn’t it need more refined workmanship to give it the excellent results...?

Radost · May 23, 2023

NortheastPhotographic said:
Personally I'm of two minds. I find their luxury strategy, frankly a little gross. I mean their 50/1.4 is $4500 bucks. If you take the red-dot of it all out that's just laughable. I feel like we're all better off that Leica is making 3 different film cameras, but then again all of them are in that laughable price range...and there are plenty of stories of questionable construction.

I can tell you what's great...finding a mint M4-P and using the CV classic line lenses. The 50/1.5II, 35/1.5, 28/2, 21/3.5...all world class optics for a relative steal. I use the 35/1.5, 50/1.5II, and 21/1.8 and I am very happy. On my F2 I use the 55/1.2 and 40/2. You could say I'm quite smitten with Voigtlander lenses. I just wish they'd bring back the Bessa III aka GF670.

I use to feel the same as you. And still do about Leica overpriced finicky cameras.
Then i got a 28mm F2.8 ElmerIt.
Developed some adox CMSII at 20 iso.
And was blown away.
A 40mm and a 50mm and up SLR lenses are good enough and the modern designs are amazing.
But when it comes to wides and especially size…SLR lenses are not as good.
I wish I could use a small A-mount Sony or Minolta. But when I shoot with 28mm edge to edge resolution and vignetting is very important.
My 90mm f4 Leica/Minolta is a little bigger than a shot glass.

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

NortheastPhotographic said:
Personally I'm of two minds. I find their luxury strategy, frankly a little gross. I mean their 50/1.4 is $4500 bucks. If you take the red-dot of it all out that's just laughable. I feel like we're all better off that Leica is making 3 different film cameras, but then again all of them are in that laughable price range...and there are plenty of stories of questionable construction.

I can tell you what's great...finding a mint M4-P and using the CV classic line lenses. The 50/1.5II, 35/1.5, 28/2, 21/3.5...all world class optics for a relative steal. I use the 35/1.5, 50/1.5II, and 21/1.8 and I am very happy. On my F2 I use the 55/1.2 and 40/2. You could say I'm quite smitten with Voigtlander lenses. I just wish they'd bring back the Bessa III aka GF670.

Those Voightlander lenses are made in Japan as the F2…!

Radost · May 23, 2023

NortheastPhotographic said:
Personally I'm of two minds. I find their luxury strategy, frankly a little gross. I mean their 50/1.4 is $4500 bucks. If you take the red-dot of it all out that's just laughable. I feel like we're all better off that Leica is making 3 different film cameras, but then again all of them are in that laughable price range...and there are plenty of stories of questionable construction.

I can tell you what's great...finding a mint M4-P and using the CV classic line lenses. The 50/1.5II, 35/1.5, 28/2, 21/3.5...all world class optics for a relative steal. I use the 35/1.5, 50/1.5II, and 21/1.8 and I am very happy. On my F2 I use the 55/1.2 and 40/2. You could say I'm quite smitten with Voigtlander lenses. I just wish they'd bring back the Bessa III aka GF670.

I will pay $2000-3000 if they bring back FUJICA GS645 foldable camera.
”You probably already know Fuji made those cameras”

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

Radost said:
I use to feel the same as you. And still do about Leica overpriced finicky cameras.
Then i got a 28mm F2.8 ElmerIt.
Developed some adox CMSII at 20 iso.
And was blown away.
A 40mm and a 50mm and up SLR lenses are good enough and the modern designs are amazing.
But when it comes to wides and especially size…SLR lenses are not as good.
I wish I could use a small A-mount Sony or Minolta. But when I shoot with 28mm edge to edge resolution and vignetting is very important.
My 90mm f4 Leica/Minolta is a little bigger than a shot glass.

How about the Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AI-s or the 55mm Micro Nikkor f/2.8…?

Radost · May 23, 2023

Nikon 2 said:
How about the Nikkor 28mm f/2.8 AI-s or the 55mm Micro Nikkor f/2.8…?

Tried the Nikkor 28mm F2.8. Not even close in corner resolution and coma. have not tried the other one. I don’t enjoy shooting my f3 at all. I have had film in it for many months and can not even finish it…

Nikon 2 · May 23, 2023

Radost said:
Tried the Nikkor 28mm F2.8. Not even close in corner resolution and coma. have not tried the other one. I don’t enjoy shooting my f3 at all. I have had film in it for many months and can not even finish it…

I believe that the Nikkor lenses just mentioned were designed for film and don’t show the negatives whereas the Leica lens you’re commenting on might be designed for digital or film…!

NortheastPhotographic · May 23, 2023

Radost said:
I use to feel the same as you. And still do about Leica overpriced finicky cameras.
Then i got a 28mm F2.8 ElmerIt.
Developed some adox CMSII at 20 iso.
And was blown away.
A 40mm and a 50mm and up SLR lenses are good enough and the modern designs are amazing.
But when it comes to wides and especially size…SLR lenses are not as good.
I wish I could use a small A-mount Sony or Minolta. But when I shoot with 28mm edge to edge resolution and vignetting is very important.
My 90mm f4 Leica/Minolta is a little bigger than a shot glass.

Sure but the 28/2.8 Biogon will deliver image quality in spades same as the Elmarit. I have not personally used the current 28/2 Ultron but the word is, it's incredible. Leica just doesn't seem to make a wide that I'm aware of that hasn't been met or exceeded by CV or ZM. I shot CMS20II with my 21/1.8. Ultron and the detail was fantastic. I hear the 21/1.4 is even better.

The 35/1.4 Summulix FLE has the edge over the 35/1.5 marginally. The ZM 35/1.4 is best of all but the size is a real problem IMHO.

In general I'd say when I use my RF, I get sharper images than when I use my F2. I'd say it's just much easier to focus an RF, and of course there being no mirror slap you have much reduced vibration. There is a noticeable improvement every time.

Why LEICA M lenses are so expensive...'

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