Why is there so much velvia100f in sheets?

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Hey guys, I'm not sure this is the right form to put this in so mods please feel free to move it.

So I've been doing a lot more large-format photography lately, and a while back when they announced that Velvia 50 inch sheet would be discontinued I purchased the last remaining box at freestyle photo...

Anyway, as far as I understand it the only two films available in transparency from Fujifilm are Provia100f and Velvia100. All other films have been discontinued...

So my question is how come there's so much velvia100f out there? B&H hasn't had Velvia100 for a very long time, and when I called them to ask about it they said "well we have Velvia100f so you should just buy that" and I said well that's not the film I want I wanted different film they are completely different films.

Anyway this went back-and-forth a couple times and for some reason I couldn't quite get it through their thick skulls that the two films the being of a similar name would not same film. They said they refused to make any orders of the new stuff when they have so much of this other V100f in stock.

Freestyle also has a ton of V100f but they do have Velvia100 as well, but it's almost $10 more to buy from freestyle

I know that Fuji decided to discontinue Velvia100f because they had to choose one over the other and this one didn't sell as well, but is it really that bad?

I don't really want to buy into a film that is no longer going to be produced and only have a limited supply of it, but there's just so much of it in the world I'm just wondering how different it two are?

I shot a few rolls of both, however I haven't shot enough to really get a handle on the different characteristics and lighting conditions, I recall someone saying that the 100 version is better with reciprocity failure etc., ? and of course the 100 F is a finer grain but I don't know as far as color saturation how they differ.

Anyone want to share their thoughts or knowledge about this? Thanks.

LJH · Nov 14, 2013

Lots out there on the differences. Google will give you your answer.

TareqPhoto · Nov 14, 2013

I thought that Fuji discontinued only Velvia 50 and Astia 100, not Velvia 100F, but in all cases, i still don't have a final judgment about velvia 100F, i did shoot 2 sheets of velvia 100F and it was just fine, not that much great and not that bad too, i also bought loads of Velvia 50 and stored them for future just in case it may get discontinued and my expectation was right, so i have 100 or 120 sheets which is more than enough if i don't shoot LF much yet, i can always use Velvia 100 and Velvia 100F for test until the time come where i can use that velvia 50 for very important serious shot.

Meanwhile, i can use velvia on 120 format without any worry, i did shoot velvia 50 and velvia 100 and velvia 100F, my best so far was from velvia 100F, so i can't tell if that is true with LF as well, but if i know how to use velvia 50 properly or correctly then it may remain my best favorite slide film, you have to shoot more sheets of velvia 100 and velvia 100F to tell the difference and favor one over the other, you may prefer velvia 100 more but some others may go with velvia 100F more, and Fuji stated that Velvia 100F is a new generation or new improvement of Velvia 100, so how come they produce it and keep selling it if it is the weakest link here?

DREW WILEY · Nov 14, 2013

The shadow characteristics are a bit different, but in sheets I strongly preferred 100F because it was made on a dimensionally-stable
polyester base instead of unstable triacetate. But I never used much anyway.

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

DREW WILEY said:
The shadow characteristics are a bit different, but in sheets I strongly preferred 100F because it was made on a dimensionally-stable
polyester base instead of unstable triacetate. But I never used much anyway.

Ahh very meaningful response, hmm the base does matter for long term storage... Will have to figure out for sure which are officially made still.

My biggest question is saturation, I really enjoy the saturation of the Velvia100 I've shot, but I only shot a few rolls of the 100f and it seemed even less saturated than my Provia100f images, but then that might be the reciprocity differences?

DREW WILEY · Nov 14, 2013

All the Velveeta family were highly saturated and contrasty compared to the mid-range Provia products. It might simply be the case that super saturation is a task taken over more and more by Fauxtoshopping. ... not really the same, but in terms of potential abuse, now the more popular
option. But if a lot of a product is still around, it's either very popular or someone overbought it in the first place, possibly on purpose before a
price increase.

Dr Croubie · Nov 14, 2013

FYI, Velvia 50 is NOT discontinued. It's only the US distributors who keep saying that, maybe it's officially discontinued in the US but they're still making it in Japan.
I just bought a pack of the *new* style box from this guy in Japan, it rocked up a week later in aus, and yes, it's the new package, as is the 5x120 I bought, both exp Jan 2015.
But man, look at that price (still, a sheet is cheaper to buy than to process it around here).

As for the OP, I think you answered yourself. I've read the story that when they released v100 (or 100f, can't remember), that it was meant to "fix" the problems with the v50 (discontinued original). So many people complained that they brought back the v50 (this is back in 2006 or so). But they still love their 100 versions, so they produce it by the truckload. But it doesn't sell as well as the 50, so shops just have more and more stock. It's also a buttload cheaper than the v50, noone wants it.
Honestly, for most people who scan, it doesn't make much difference because you can adjust Sat etc in photoshop.
But Stone, you sound like me, I've heard you say you hate photoshop, I don't even have it (I run linux). Scan and print and nothing in between (maybe crop). Hence I buy my v50 too. But I do also have some 100 and 100F in the freezer that I use on occasions, depending on how 'special' I think the shot will be as to what film I want to waste on it.
I've still got 18 sheets of Quickload Astia in the freezer, I used my first 2 frames for a portrait of my gf and her grandmas at her 30th, I'm saving the last 18 sheets for something as special.
Similarly, the v50 I save for those 'spectacular' sunset-landscapes, the v100/f I use for just regular midday shooting and ones where I may get a good shot or may not, so don't want to waste the v50.

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Dr Croubie said:
FYI, Velvia 50 is NOT discontinued. It's only the US distributors who keep saying that, maybe it's officially discontinued in the US but they're still making it in Japan.
I just bought a pack of the *new* style box from this guy in Japan, it rocked up a week later in aus, and yes, it's the new package, as is the 5x120 I bought, both exp Jan 2015.
But man, look at that price (still, a sheet is cheaper to buy than to process it around here).

As for the OP, I think you answered yourself. I've read the story that when they released v100 (or 100f, can't remember), that it was meant to "fix" the problems with the v50 (discontinued original). So many people complained that they brought back the v50 (this is back in 2006 or so). But they still love their 100 versions, so they produce it by the truckload. But it doesn't sell as well as the 50, so shops just have more and more stock. It's also a buttload cheaper than the v50, noone wants it.
Honestly, for most people who scan, it doesn't make much difference because you can adjust Sat etc in photoshop.
But Stone, you sound like me, I've heard you say you hate photoshop, I don't even have it (I run linux). Scan and print and nothing in between (maybe crop). Hence I buy my v50 too. But I do also have some 100 and 100F in the freezer that I use on occasions, depending on how 'special' I think the shot will be as to what film I want to waste on it.
I've still got 18 sheets of Quickload Astia in the freezer, I used my first 2 frames for a portrait of my gf and her grandmas at her 30th, I'm saving the last 18 sheets for something as special.
Similarly, the v50 I save for those 'spectacular' sunset-landscapes, the v100/f I use for just regular midday shooting and ones where I may get a good shot or may not, so don't want to waste the v50.

Wait so if you have both the 100 and the 100 F versions of Velvia, how come you don't know the difference betwen the two? Lol

And yes I was speaking about the US market, of course in Europe you can still get it, but over here there's no distributors whatsoever for V50.

As I understand it however the 50 is specifically designed to be shot in low contrast situations, where the 100 versions are better in higher contrast situations, so even those ours to use differently. I just want to know if the 100 or 100 F versions are any different, I do know that one of my favorite shots was shot on the V100, and the other was shot on Provia 100f, and the shots that I did take on V100f came out under exposed, so I can't really tell if I like the film or not I don't have enough experience with it and I obviously failed to expose it properly, these were long exposures and so I'm not sure if it's because I didn't take into account the reciprocity failure that V100f had that the V100 didn't have, or some other reason... I've only shot it a few times (the 100F version) and it was -15F and so I wasn't really able to take notes, i had a hard enough time adjusting the aperture without loosing a finger

Poisson Du Jour · Nov 14, 2013

StoneNYC said:
Wait so if you have both the 100 and the 100 F versions of Velvia, how come you don't know the difference betwen the two? Lol

And yes I was speaking about the US market, of course in Europe you can still get it, but over here there's no distributors whatsoever for V50.

As I understand it however the 50 is specifically designed to be shot in low contrast situations, where the 100 versions are better in higher contrast situations, so even those ours to use differently. I just want to know if the 100 or 100 F versions are any different, I do know that one of my favorite shots was shot on the V100, and the other was shot on Provia 100f, and the shots that I did take on V100f came out under exposed, so I can't really tell if I like the film or not I don't have enough experience with it and I obviously failed to expose it properly, these were long exposures and so I'm not sure if it's because I didn't take into account the reciprocity failure that V100f had that the V100 didn't have, or some other reason... I've only shot it a few times (the 100F version) and it was -15F and so I wasn't really able to take notes, i had a hard enough time adjusting the aperture without loosing a finger

Globally it is inventory-backstocking that is coming onto the market, that's why there is so much available; I suspect though the stock will expire long before it is sold because digital continues to eat away at the market.

Velvia 100 is very, very contrasty and easily blows highlights and blocks shadows far too easily and more readily than the stalwart RVP50. Velvia 100F is not the same as 100; the two also have dissimilar palettes and require tweaks of exposure. Reciprocity failure is the very least of your concerns with any Velvia emulsion. The trick is to expose all Velvias in the light they were designed for: diffuse or soft, and never bright point illumination which will show just how tempestuous the emulsions are. Sure, people use Velvias for weddings, that's their prerogative, but it's also a silly choice considering far better emulsions, and non-E6 at that.

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Poisson Du Jour said:
Globally it is inventory-backstocking that is coming onto the market, that's why there is so much available; I suspect though the stock will expire long before it is sold because digital continues to eat away at the market.

Velvia 100 is very, very contrasty and easily blows highlights and blocks shadows far too easily and more readily than the stalwart RVP50. Velvia 100F is not the same as 100; the two also have dissimilar palettes and require tweaks of exposure. Reciprocity failure is the very least of your concerns with any Velvia emulsion. The trick is to expose all Velvias in the light they were designed for: diffuse or soft, and never bright point illumination which will show just how tempestuous the emulsions are. Sure, people use Velvias for weddings, that's their prerogative, but it's also a silly choice considering far better emulsions, and non-E6 at that.

So can you elaborate on the difference specifically between Velvia100 and Velvia100f? In terms of color/contrast?

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Never mind, just reading the kenrockwell description, sure it's a lame source but available, anyway I guess the next question is am I wrong? Is Velvia100F still being produced or is only Velvia100 being produced? (For the USA I mean).

Karl A · Nov 14, 2013

From what I know,

100f is discontinued in all formats globally, but is still available at retail
50 and 100 received a package redesign this year and are still available in Japan in 4x5 and 8x10
Only 100 is available in 4x5 in North America (no 50) - check Adorama they have 100
50 is still available everywhere in 35mm and 120
5x7 Velvia is discontinued but available at retail in Japan

Hope that helps?

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Karl A said:
From what I know,

100f is discontinued in all formats globally, but is still available at retail
50 and 100 received a package redesign this year and are still available in Japan in 4x5 and 8x10
Only 100 is available in 4x5 in North America (no 50) - check Adorama they have 100
50 is still available everywhere in 35mm and 120
5x7 Velvia is discontinued but available at retail in Japan

Hope that helps?

Perfect answer, thanks Karl!

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Final note about reciprocity, I'm looking at the data sheets for both the 100 and 100 F and they both seem to have the same exact information with regards to reciprocity failure and correction can anyone comment on whether this is somehow in accurate information? I often hear that the two are different but from the data sheet it doesn't seem like they are...

Alan Klein · Nov 14, 2013

Slightly off topic. But here are two Velvia 50's taken on the same roll at the same exposure. Both processed through a scanner for internet display. So which is the real RVP color?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270637805/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270429762/

wildbill · Nov 14, 2013

It's a shame any way you look at it but velvia 100 (I mean red velvia 100) only had one advantage over rvp, speed. The red shadows and how it renders red subjects like pine park, lead me to use it only when necessary. Correctable in scanning, I but that doesn't make it acceptable. They should have fixed before they ever released it. I only shot one roll of 100f and that was enough, I just didn't like it compared to rvp.

StoneNYC · Nov 14, 2013

Alan Klein said:
Slightly off topic. But here are two Velvia 50's taken on the same roll at the same exposure. Both processed through a scanner for internet display. So which is the real RVP color?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270637805/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270429762/

Alan, both very beautiful images, obviously the one that is more zoomed in is the color I'm thinking. Question, did you use the filter on one and not on the other?

wildbill said:
It's a shame any way you look at it but velvia 100 (I mean red velvia 100) only had one advantage over rvp, speed. The red shadows and how it renders red subjects like pine park, lead me to use it only when necessary. Correctable in scanning, I but that doesn't make it acceptable. They should have fixed before they ever released it. I only shot one roll of 100f and that was enough, I just didn't like it compared to rvp.

Well by reading the data sheet, it indicates that there some kind of special color filter in order to prevent a lot of the bad saturation colors, perhaps that's the one for preventing read? They seem to only suggest using it when you're shooting long exposures, but I definitely don't have one of those filters, do you?

Dr Croubie · Nov 14, 2013

Alan Klein said:
Slightly off topic. But here are two Velvia 50's taken on the same roll at the same exposure. Both processed through a scanner for internet display. So which is the real RVP color?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270637805/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/alanklein2000/5270429762/

The closer one may be close to what you can get with a CPL, but it still looks a bit more over-saturated, so still I'm saying the wider one is closer to real film...

wildbill · Nov 14, 2013

The reason there's so much of it is because NO ONE is buying it!
They probably love it in japan.
I don't have/use any special filters. Long exposures? It's large format, short exposures don't exist outdoors in the conditions appropriate for shooting velvia. haha, tell fuji that. For me, wind is the killer. It's always a waiting game and very often I don't get the shot I want because I don't have iso 100 film on hand.

StoneNYC · Nov 15, 2013

wildbill said:
The reason there's so much of it is because NO ONE is buying it!
They probably love it in japan.
I don't have/use any special filters. Long exposures? It's large format, short exposures don't exist outdoors in the conditions appropriate for shooting velvia. haha, tell fuji that. For me, wind is the killer. It's always a waiting game and very often I don't get the shot I want because I don't have iso 100 film on hand.

Wind is a killer for everyone..

Well 1 box of Velvia100 in 4x5 ordered... Think it will last a year? Lol

Richard Man · Nov 15, 2013

Wind is not a killer if you use a metal camera with lenscone

wildbill · Nov 15, 2013

didjiman said:
Wind is not a killer if you use a metal camera with lenscone

Oh. Do I put the trees, leaves, and other objects inside the cone to keep them from moving? Please explain further, I don't understand. Post an image of this concept, perhaps.

StoneNYC · Nov 15, 2013

wildbill said:
Oh. Do I put the trees, leaves, and other objects inside the cone to keep them from moving? Please explain further, I don't understand. Post an image of this concept, perhaps.

He must not get the same kind of wind as I do, I could put a boulder on top oft camera and still worry about the wind lol.

And yes, this darn trees never hold still...

DREW WILEY · Nov 15, 2013

Ha! Around here in the Spring I've had sudden gusts of wind pick up my whole 8x10 and big wooden Ries tripod just like a kite and toss it
fifteen yards of so. I'm just lucky it's never had a hard landing yet. The compendium lenshade is probably what has prevented the lenses
from ever getting damaged. All it takes is moment for either the wind to cause a problem, or for things to settle enough to get the shot. But
I might have to wait twenty minutes for that opportunity. But when things get hopeless, I carry a P67 system instead.

Alan Klein · Nov 15, 2013

Dr Croubie said:
The closer one may be close to what you can get with a CPL, but it still looks a bit more over-saturated, so still I'm saying the wider one is closer to real film...

I think you are right because the shadow areas show more detail in the wide angle shot. So the details had to be there in the original. I probably added more contrast and saturation to the zoomed in picture. Of course this raises a point. If you not printing chemically, and why would you nother using chromes in that case, then the opriginal colors can change anyway once you scan and adjust. So what matter which Velvia version you select?

Thnaks Stone for your comments too. Alan.

Why is there so much velvia100f in sheets?

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