Why is T-Max so expensive in Canada?

MattKing · Jun 28, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Thanks Matt for the clarification regarding Sino and Alaris. Do you think that the extra mark-up that Kodak charges Alaris may account for some of the higher costs Alaris gets for the Kodak film?

I think that the costs are most likely lower because of Kodak Alaris.
There were three reasons that Eastman Kodak survived bankruptcy;
1) the bankruptcy trustee got $600,000,000.00 dollars from the Kodak Limited Pension fund;
2) Eastman Kodak was relieved from the super-priority obligation to continue contributing to that fund; and
3) Eastman Kodak was relieved from the massive obligation to continue supporting the world-wide array of infrastructure and employee related costs that supported their still film marketing and distribution, along with the paper and chemical manufacture and marketing and distribution.
Just by "off-loading" almost all of their employees (including their subsidiaries' employees) to Kodak Alaris, they probably were able to get rid of the costs that were a major reason for the bankruptcy.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2022

brbo said:
Fuji sells re-labeled Kodak film cheaper than Kodak Alaris sells the same film.

I'd take a wild guess and say that Eastman Kodak isn't the main source of film price increases we are seeing, although they do state in their last financial report that higher revenues in segment that includes still film were due to volume improvements and higher pricing. Favourable effects of pricing have been identified also in their past financial statements so it's good that Eastman Kodak can at least get something from quite substantial price increases in last years.

Sounds like that is an accurate conclusion.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 28, 2022

brbo said:
Fuji sells re-labeled Kodak film cheaper than Kodak Alaris sells the same film.

I'd take a wild guess and say that Eastman Kodak isn't the main source of film price increases we are seeing, although they do state in their last financial report that higher revenues in segment that includes still film were due to volume improvements and higher pricing. Favourable effects of pricing have been identified also in their past financial statements so it's good that Eastman Kodak can at least get something from quite substantial price increases in last years.

But the point is if Kodak is making extra money for price increases to Alaris, and Alaris adds their own markup to distributors and retailers, the double markups could account for higher Kodak film prices. Ilford only has one markup.

Also, Alaris can do little about Kodak price increases because they have no other sources for their film.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 28, 2022

MattKing said:
I think that the costs are most likely lower because of Kodak Alaris.
There were three reasons that Eastman Kodak survived bankruptcy;
1) the bankruptcy trustee got $600,000,000.00 dollars from the Kodak Limited Pension fund;
2) Eastman Kodak was relieved from the super-priority obligation to continue contributing to that fund; and
3) Eastman Kodak was relieved from the massive obligation to continue supporting the world-wide array of infrastructure and employee related costs that supported their still film marketing and distribution, along with the paper and chemical manufacture and marketing and distribution.
Just by "off-loading" almost all of their employees (including their subsidiaries' employees) to Kodak Alaris, they probably were able to get rid of the costs that were a major reason for the bankruptcy.

Lower than what? Ilford controls the markup of its manufacturing and distribution process. Kodak and Alaris have no such ability. Kodak charges what they want to Alaris.

Here's an example. Ilford marks up their film 50% to distributors and retailers. That's the full markup including all costs for manufacturing and distribution.

Alaris only marks up their cost by 40% but Kodak markups their manufacturing costs 35%. The two together mean Alaris' overall markup, over 75%, is higher than Ilford's raising the price to the distributor, retailer, and the end-user.

brbo · Jun 28, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Lower than what? Ilford controls the markup of its manufacturing and distribution process. Kodak and Alaris have no such ability. Kodak charges what they want to Alaris.

No, it doesn't and it can't.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 28, 2022

brbo said:
No, it doesn't and it can't.

What controls the markup Kodak charges to Alaris?

brbo · Jun 28, 2022

Eastman - Alaris exclusive supply agreement.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 28, 2022

brbo said:
Eastman - Alaris exclusive supply agreement.

This this like pulling teeth. OK. So what does the agreement say?

GregY · Jun 28, 2022

.....sure come a long way sideways from the OP's question....

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 28, 2022

GregY said:
.....sure come a long way sideways from the OP's question....

We're working on it.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
We're working on it.

Uh, which direction?

GregY · Jun 28, 2022

Andrew O'Neill said:
A roll of TMY-2 120 was $15.99 at Kerrisdale Cameras in the mall near me. They haven't had any in stock for months, though. It's not even listed in that format on their website. Not only is the stuff priced beyond ridiculous, we can't even get it. No worries, though. Prefer Ilford films.

What characteristics of Delta 400 do you prefer?
BTW I remember buying 50 roll boxes of FP4+ /120 from B&H ......
I'm still a big fan of Tmax 400 in 120 & 4x5....
but if push came to shove i could live with just FP4+

MattKing · Jun 28, 2022

They both control the price, vis a vis the factors they have control over.
But as for all those factors they don't have control over, those have much more influence than anything either one of them can do.

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2022

MattKing said:
They both control the price, vis a vis the factors they have control over.
But as for all those factors they don't have control over, those have much more influence than anything either one of them can do.

Go buy a tank of gas for your vehicle today and the difference in the cost of film will no longer bother you.

brbo · Jun 28, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
This this like pulling teeth. OK. So what does the agreement say?

Wouldn't we all like to know...

Sirius Glass · Jun 28, 2022

brbo said:
Wouldn't we all like to know...

I would rather know stock prices for the next day instead.

Alan Edward Klein · Jun 28, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
Go buy a tank of gas for your vehicle today and the difference in the cost of film will no longer bother you.

Yesterday cost me $97 for my sedan (takes 91 High test). How much film is that?

GregY · Jun 28, 2022

Alan Edward Klein said:
Yesterday cost me $97 for my sedan (takes 91 High test). How much film is that?

Not much 5x7" Tmax 400.....

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 28, 2022

GregY said:
What characteristics of Delta 400 do you prefer?
BTW I remember buying 50 roll boxes of FP4+ /120 from B&H ......
I'm still a big fan of Tmax 400 in 120 & 4x5....
but if push came to shove i could live with just FP4+

Initially what attracted me to Delta 400, was it's increased sensitivity into the reds. But what really twigged my interest was when I was shooting with it in a deep forest. The tree trunks and roots took on a velvety feel. I wish I had to TMY-2 with me at the time so that I could compare them. So... I intend to do side by side comparisons with TMY-2 in the very near future... Is the increase in red sensitivity really that noticeable? I'll also be looking at tonal rendition, grain, sharpness.

GregY · Jun 28, 2022

Thanks Andrew. Most often I am working in the other end of the spectrum..... clouds & mountain landscapes. I do appreciate the smoothness of TMax (both 100 & 400) tonality.

cmacd123 · Jun 28, 2022

AgX said:
Seemingly there is no functioning anti-cartel authority in Canada.

or in many other places where Lexotica opperates. The founder was just featured in the Obituary section of "The Globe and Mail"

here is the wikipedia article on him... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Del_Vecchio

braxus · Jun 28, 2022

Andy- I'll await your video on TMAX 400 and Delta 400. I love both of these films and use both, so I eagerly await your thoughts on them.

I called Kerrisdale Cameras in Langley and yes they are out of TMY 400 in 120. I tried. You might just be better off ordering it from the States and importing it in. No wait in comparison. I know you like to shop Canadian retailers, but in cases like this, what other options do you have if you can't get it here anyway?

MattKing · Jun 28, 2022

Beau Photo lists it - at $17.45/roll - but I don't know if they actually have stock.

Andrew O'Neill · Jun 28, 2022

Scott, I'll start on the video after I finish two that I'm working on simultaneously... I need to get out with my ULF and some Xray, before I lose my mind though... and of course, that will also be a video, too (not of me losing my mind LOL).
As far as TMY-2 goes, I've got enough to keep me happy. I really don't want to spend my money in the US. Just wish stores here would get it back on their shelves again SOON!

multivoiced · Aug 2, 2024

I'm just a bit confused by this remark from a couple of years ago.

albireo said:
Taking digital pictures with a tiny OM2n (60$), a tiny 35mm Zuiko prime (20$), a roll of colour film (5$)

What did you mean by "digital" pictures? Isn't that a film camera?

Why is T-Max so expensive in Canada?

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