Why is my Superia 400 so blue?

backmost · Mar 3, 2015

Before Color Correction:
http://i.imgur.com/6HJOOc1.jpg

After Correction:
http://i.imgur.com/WXezRTm.jpg

I've used the Tetenal C41 kit to develop, but the other indoor shots came out normal except these outdoor ones. My shutter speed was 1/500, aperture priority, and light meter was within limits.

Any advice?

Sirius Glass · Mar 3, 2015

I think it was under exposed because the light meter had too much sky in view during the metering.

Rudeofus · Mar 4, 2015

There are three things which may contribute to some extent to the results you see:

IIRC, the cyan layer (responsible for red) is the bottom most layer, and the last one to see full development. There could be some things in your processing which gave this layer too little development: tank not preheated ---> temperature drop after you filled in color developer, too low temperature of color developer to begin with, color developer time too short. Your shadows look good, though (no strong color cast), so I would suggest your processing was ok.
This is no slide film, which means the scanner has to make some assumptions about color balance in your film. Did you tell your scanner software that this is Superia 400? Does it even have an option for that? Do you have an option for setting black point and white point?
The outdoor scene may have been plenty blue: my impression is this was shot around noon, with mostly blue sky but the sun obscured by some cloud. Such a situation gives you less yellow from direct sun, but the full amount of blue from the surrounding sky, and as a result the scene could have been bluish. You don't have a color meter, do you?

backmost · Mar 4, 2015

Thank you Rudeofus for helping! I don't have a color meter actually and the shot was taken in the afternoon (around 3-4pm). The scanner I use is the Jumbl film scanner which isn't the best as compared to an Epson V700, but it's been doing a fairly decent job thus far. I will have to fiddle with the correction settings and try rescanning. As far as development goes, I've done my best to keep the temperatures and times consistent, but I will try to be more careful next time.

wombat2go · Mar 4, 2015

Hi Backmost,
Refer to Curve 17 "Exposure process Densitometry", Curve 17 Page 6 of the Superia 400 data sheet.
It shows the spread of densities on R, G, B with B being the most dense, followed by G, then R
I scan without color correction, and all the raw positives of C41 have a blue cast with weak reds.

It can be corrected by applying a reverse of the curve, or , easier, by doing an auto or manual white balance on a selected gray part of the image.

Also it may be necessary to apply gamma correction, and as the curve shows, all channels areof approximately similar gamma and I use an overall gamma of 0.65 as a starting point.

I suppose when C41 is wet printed to a paper positive, the above biases tend to self correct.

Rudeofus · Mar 4, 2015

wombat2go said:
Refer to Curve 17 "Exposure process Densitometry", Curve 17 Page 6 of the Superia 400 data sheet. It shows the spread of densities on R, G, B with B being the most dense, followed by G, then R

What you describe here is the orange mask, not some weird color cast. Scanner software is (should be) aware of this feature (present in almost all color negative films) and correct for it. Here comes the point, though: Not all film's orange masks are created equal, so you need different amounts of compensation. This can go wrong, of course, see the second point in my previous posting.

wombat2go said:
Also it may be necessary to apply gamma correction, and as the curve shows, all channels areof approximately similar gamma and I use an overall gamma of 0.65 as a starting point.

With perfect processing the three gamma values are correct, but that's not always the case, see the first point in my previous posting. If you have different gamma values, you will get different color casts for dark and bright regions, but mostback's images don't show such a defect. That's why I think that his processing is fine.

pentaxuser · Mar 4, 2015

Back to the old question again: Is this a true representation of your neg by the scanner? I strongly suspect not. The Tetenal kit isn't able to distinguish between shots when it develops the film. If it was then all shots of scenes in Germany would be perfect and shots anywhere else would be crap.

pentaxuser

wombat2go · Mar 4, 2015

I think RGB transfer functions shown in the density graphs are for all the layers including the orange mask.

The first image below is a raw of the C41 neg
The second is inverted (only) without any color balancing or gamma correction. Note the blue cast.
It could be that Backmost's scan is just like that, an inverted raw positive, and need to be post processed.

sagai · Mar 4, 2015

I am having Tetenal c41 also for superia and never (keep fingers crossed! )come across with this problem. Scanning with V370 though.

backmost · Mar 4, 2015

pentaxuser said:
Back to the old question again: Is this a true representation of your neg by the scanner? I strongly suspect not. The Tetenal kit isn't able to distinguish between shots when it develops the film. If it was then all shots of scenes in Germany would be perfect and shots anywhere else would be crap.

pentaxuser

I have a feeling my scanner is auto-correcting and overcompensating since the software is very primitive. It has an RGB adjuster on the device itself, which can be changed before capturing the image. Usually though, it does really well for example:

http://i.imgur.com/bA0aYPr.jpg

Same film, indoor shot.

Sirius Glass · Mar 4, 2015

backmost said:
I have a feeling my scanner is auto-correcting and overcompensating since the software is very primitive. It has an RGB adjuster on the device itself, which can be changed before capturing the image. Usually though, it does really well for example:

http://i.imgur.com/bA0aYPr.jpg

Same film, indoor shot.

I hate to correct, but the pieces of cheese need to be broken into smaller pieces. :munch:

sagai · Mar 4, 2015

You can actually take a shot of your negative with a digital camera to see if your scanner is the one to be blamed

perkeleellinen · Mar 4, 2015

I'm not sure if anything is wrong. Isn't negative film open to interpretation at the printing / scanning stage? I know nothing of scanning but in the darkroom if a test print was blue it would need adjustment just as has happened here. If the film can be balanced then is there an issue?

Sirius Glass · Mar 4, 2015

perkeleellinen said:
I'm not sure if anything is wrong. Isn't negative film open to interpretation at the printing / scanning stage? I know nothing of scanning but in the darkroom if a test print was blue it would need adjustment just as has happened here. If the film can be balanced then is there an issue?

Scanners are often tied to computers. Computers are not personal, so I do not know where the term personal computer came from, and the computers will stab you in the back any way they can: crashing destroying the document you are working on, crashing and damaging the hard disk and just being ornery by throwing in random numbers to screw up a scan.

tron_ · Mar 5, 2015

Part of the reason you see so many color casts in c-41 film is the orange mask. Different films have different shades of orange masks so when your scanner tries to neutralize the orange mask, it doesn't know what brand/type of film you're using.

It comes down to a matter or correcting in post most likely. Do the other frames have the same color cast?

backmost · Mar 5, 2015

Only these outdoor shots on the beach that day have the blueish color cast. I've messed with the scanner settings and adjusted the RGB balancing. Now the pictures come out SO much better, so this was a good learning experience!

wombat2go · Mar 5, 2015

backmost said:
Only these outdoor shots on the beach that day have the blueish color cast. I've messed with the scanner settings and adjusted the RGB balancing. Now the pictures come out SO much better, so this was a good learning experience!

Excellent. Can you put one up?

backmost · Mar 5, 2015

http://i.imgur.com/6RhFk82.jpg

This is the image with a bit more correction from iPhoto, not ideal but I will get myself Photoshop at some point.

Sirius Glass · Mar 5, 2015

That is much better.

Why is my Superia 400 so blue?

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