Why is my RZ67 firing inconsistently?

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

Hi, I have just got my first RZ67 with a big fat 90mm f3.5 lens that I am very happy with. So far I have not tried to load film but the body looks very well looked after and when the slide is removed from the film back, the shutter release is set to mechanical firing (orange) and the R I M lever is set to M it goes off like a rocket KABOOM! KABOOM! KABOOM! (-:

However when I turn the shutter to the normal (white) position it is a different story. As expected nothing happens before the dark slide is removed. When the dak slide is removed but the cocking lever is not advanced I get a red light, also as expected. The problem is that when the dark slide is removed, the cocking lever is advanced, I press the shutter release and...sometimes KABOOM, sometimes not ??? Sometimes after pressing the shutter release several times KABOOM, sometimes nothing ??? If I use a cable release to fire the shutter instead of just pressing the shutter release the odds of KABOOM seem to improve but not always. But as soon as I switch the shutter release back to mechanical (orange) KABOOM! KABOOM! KABOOM!

So can this mean the shutter release of my new bazouka may have an electrical problem - or is it me (probably both)?

shutterfinger · Jan 26, 2018

Download the instruction manual for the exact version you have here: http://www.mamiyaleaf.com/documentation.html
Now the first thing to do is get a new battery, silver oxide preferred over the alkaline.
Clean the battery chamber contacts before installing the new battery. https://www.google.com/search?clien...1j0i13k1j0i8i7i30k1j0i8i13i30k1.0.h_WcTJ0VARI
It sounds like you have a battery that says its good but falls flat as soon as the camera load is applied.

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

shutterfinger said:
It sounds like you have a battery that says its good but falls flat as soon as the camera load is applied.

Thanks Shutterfinger for your encouraging reply. I can understand this as I also sometimes fall flat if I´m supposed to be working but don't get my morning coffee in time. (-: I would be VERY happy if it turns out this is the problem as it is easy to fix (though not right now since it is after midnight here). In your experience does the battery fade out slowly or just kick the bucket going from properly functioning to not functioning at all, as if the the former rather than the latter is the case it could explain the inconsistency, right? I will also try to clean the battery chamber contacts.

If the battery and electrical system is working properly I should get a constant red light in the viewfinder for as long as I press the shutter release down if the camera is not cocked, right?

Why is silver oxide preferrred over alkaline (or lithium)?

iakustov · Jan 26, 2018

I would too replace the battery first and see how it goes

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

Thanks, I will do so as soon as the sun comes up.
Meanwhile I just re-read and found this helpful hint that I had overlooked in the instruction manual that Shutterfinger pointed me too: "Carefully wipe the contacts of the battery before inserting it into the chamber. Failure to do so could result in poor electrical contact and consequent erratic functioning of the camera." So looks like as usual the problem is me ie the erratic functioning of the €#€%&! behind the camera, at least I hope so.

shutterfinger · Jan 26, 2018

I have never handled an RZ. I am an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10 troubleshooter with electro-mechanical equipment. Camera battery is the first to be checked as it fails regularly.
I have a Nikon F4 I bought new in 1991. I was trusting the battery check light and it started pausing when advancing, it was the batteries. They were alkaline.
If the battery is an alkaline replace it with a silver oxide.
Corroded battery chamber contacts 2nd choice, switch contacts 3rd choice.

michaelfoto · Jan 26, 2018

Since the shutter itself is in the lens, i would also clean the contacts in the lens and the mount.
Michael.

mpirie · Jan 26, 2018

Try twisting the film back in relation the body.

I find sometimes my RZ will not fire after rotating the back. If you give the back a small twist (like you were going to rotate it) then it should fire properly.
Mike

MattKing · Jan 26, 2018

mpirie said:
Try twisting the film back in relation the body.

I find sometimes my RZ will not fire after rotating the back. If you give the back a small twist (like you were going to rotate it) then it should fire properly.
Mike

+1
If the back isn't completely rotated, the interlocks prevent the system from firing.

blacksquare · Jan 26, 2018

MattKing said:
+1
If the back isn't completely rotated, the interlocks prevent the system from firing.

Yes. A common problem with one of my backs.

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

mpirie said:
Try twisting the film back in relation the body.

I find sometimes my RZ will not fire after rotating the back. If you give the back a small twist (like you were going to rotate it) then it should fire properly.
Mike

Thanks for this tip. I tried jiggling the back as you suggest but it did not seem to make any difference. If the problem was the interlocks on the back preventing the system from firing woud you not expect that this would effect the fully mechanical firing of the camera shutter release (orange dot position) as well as the electronic release (white indicator position)? I ask since in my case the shutter always fires without problem when the shutter release dial is in the orange position. The problem only comes when it is in the normal (white) position.

Now I go to look for a new battery with the hope this may solve (at least part of) the problem.
Is there any reason why a lithium battery would not work as well if not better than a silver oxide or alkaline battery? Maybe this has to do with how quickly the battery can supply the requisite amount of power the camera needs to work properly - or is there some other reason?

shutterfinger · Jan 26, 2018

Alkaline are fine when fresh but are intermittent when partially discharged.
Silver oxide stay consistent until depleted then stop.
Lithium may work more like silver oxide, not much experience with them on my part.

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

Well, I put in a brand new 6v alkaline battery and this is what happened, in order, step by step:

1) Red light comes on when camera set to M and shutter not cocked (-:
2) Shutter fires as it should with shutter dial in standard position (white dot) ten times in a row with and without cable release (-:x10!!!
3) When shutter is pressed it misfires (nothing happens), but fires when I re- press the shutter button 0-:???
4) same as three - though less and less (instead of firing every 2nd time it fires every 3rd or 4th time I press the shutter button
5) Shutter stops firing with shutter dial in standard position (white dot) )-:
6) But continues to fire, as always, every time when shutter button is set to mechanical (orange) dot
7) Red light no longer lights up in viewfinder when camera is set to M and shutter is not cocked

So could it be the new battery gave the camera a short injection of life, then it returned to the previous state?

Also, even when the everything seemed to be working ok (2) I could hear no difference in the length of the exposure when changing the shutter speed from 400 to slow shutter speeds like 1 white, 2, 4,8 yellow, and when I tried B the shutter just opened and closed but did not stay open as long as I held the shutter release down, so am not even sure if this is working properly or lacks power? Unless my ears are too old to hear the difference between a short CLK! and long CLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK?

Now all I can think to do is try to clean all the contacts to see if this makes any difference and if not take the camera to be checked by a technician.

shutterfinger · Jan 26, 2018

Do you have another lens? If so try it.
Otherwise its either an electronic failure in the body or shutter in the lens needs a CLA.
Electronic release not functioning.

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

+1
Unfortunately I only have one lens and I suspect the problem may be a combination of electronic failure and the lens needing a CLA.

These things seem to be built like tanks so my hope is a good technician may be able to bring this old master back to life - though am not sure how easy it would be to fix electronic failure in the body given its age? One way to find out I guess.

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

Meanwhile back at the ranch, amazing what you can find on the internet when you start to dig, like this cautionary exchange:

: I'm looking for Repair Manual for Mamiya RZ 67 Pro. It's only fire at
mechanical setting 1/400s. Maybe at least I need only the schematic diagram
for the electric board. I want to repair it myself.

: I wouldn't touch the RZs only because of the complicated electronics and special equipment you'd need to test it.

: It's only a small problem. I have a multi-meter(AVO meter)and I know a little bit about electronic and camera. After I check them all, there's small two zoner-diodes in the main board which supply the power from twin capasitor to the elektro-magnetic shutter-switch. And this zoner-diodes are dead. I just can't buy the spare diode in local electronic shop without know the type exactly. So I need only the schematic diagram to know what type they are, and I know this kind of diodes will cost no more than 1 USD for both...

If you have read this thread this far you may also be interested in this pdf of the RZ67 repair manual that can be downloaded for free here: http://www.edsawyer.com/lenstests/

WilmarcoImaging · Jan 26, 2018

The diagnosis steps in post #13 sound like electronic malfunction. It sounds like a capacitor isn't holding its charge, or a magnet isn't getting enough current. I don't know the RZ electronics to know if there is (are) a capacitor(s) in the shutter circuit.

windhorse · Jan 26, 2018

Thanks for this suggestion! In general would you reckon having a technician delve into the camera to try and fix electronic malfunctions like this is a worthwhile endeavour or is it more likely this would be the photographic equivalent of trying to prolong the life of a terminally-ill patient so it may be better just to give up and look for a replacement body? Of course it would be great if this kind of repair is a relatively simple procedure that can be done in a jiffy with readily available parts and bring the camera back to life for a song - but I am not banking on it.

shutterfinger · Jan 27, 2018

Take a look at manual part 1 section 1-4. The electromagnetic shutter release is fairly straight forward and should be easy to check.
The battery leakage check in manual part 2 manual page 114 should be preformed also as well as the MC check on manual page 116.

shutterfinger · Jan 27, 2018

https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-11-oz-QD-Electronic-Cleaner-05103/205021975
will likely come in handy.

WilmarcoImaging · Jan 27, 2018

I read a portion of one of the RZ manuals. If you have above average electro-mechanical skills there could be a solution to this. It will likely require un-soldering and re-soldering moderately fine components. Sloppy work probably means the camera would be toast.

RZ bodies seem to be available for around $500 +/- a couple of hundred $. A repair job probably costs almost as much as a new body. If it were me, and I had the time (which I don't), I would attempt the repair, knowing that a new body is likely in my future.

Or convert to the RB Pro SD system. A Pro SD body and 90/3.8 lens can be had for less than $500. You have options. No electronic issues, and low frequency of mechanical issues. In the unlikely event of a mechanical problem, replacements are available at comparatively low cost.

windhorse · Jan 27, 2018

Appreciate this GOOD advice

Less than $500 sounds good. I paid $400 for this one that taught me cheap can be good but not if it doesn't work properly

Unfortunately, my electro-mechanical skills are not up there with Seiichi Mamiya, Victor Hasselblad or Albert Einstein.

Fortunately, I have been able to return this faulty RZ67 camera I bought and get a refund from the seller, so appreciate VERY much the good advice that I have received in this thread that helped diagnose the problem. Meanwhile I still have the SB eMotion digital back/Mamiya RZ67 adapter plate that got me started on this, so I am back to where I started out from.

The RB Pro SD system alos seems to be a good option but I don't think my (too expensive) SB eMotion / Mamiya RZ adapter plate (serial number 552.36.171) would fit? If I did my homework right it would have to be either an RZ, RZ ProII or RZ ProIID?

awty · Jan 27, 2018

Mine wouldn't cock my 65mm lens and was sporadic in firing other lens. Had to always fire the lens separate with a cable to make sure it fired. Asked the local camera repair guy if he could fix it, he refused as they are problematic to repair and cost of repair can easily out strip the value of the camera, thats if you can find the parts. Pulled the body apart myself to see if I could get it working, still didnt work and after a long time I gave up and bought a new body and everything works fine now.
In hindsight the rb system would of been better as they are all mechanical and are easier to repair........but hey the rz has some beautiful lens.
Sorry not much help, my camera body was just clapped out, I got another body from japan for about $250 Australian dollars delivered.

windhorse · Jan 27, 2018

awty said:
Mine wouldn't cock my 65mm lens and was sporadic in firing other lens. Had to always fire the lens separate with a cable to make sure it fired. Asked the local camera repair guy if he could fix it, he refused as they are problematic to repair and cost of repair can easily out strip the value of the camera, thats if you can find the parts. Pulled the body apart myself to see if I could get it working, still didnt work and after a long time I gave up and bought a new body and everything works fine now.
In hindsight the rb system would of been better as they are all mechanical and are easier to repair........but hey the rz has some beautiful lens.
Sorry not much help, my camera body was just clapped out, I got another body from japan for about $250 Australian dollars delivered.

Good to know and a pleasure to see the super work in your flickr stream - really twisted

Why is my RZ67 firing inconsistently?

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