why is it that ads selling items state U.S. only ?

spoolman · Jul 12, 2021

I've missed out on a number of items for sale here on Photrio because the seller will only consider offers from or ship to the U.S. only ?
Is it because of shipping charges?
In one instance I offered to pay those charges and was told he only sells to people in the U.S. and he couldn't be bothered filling out the customs documents.
If this is the case then I might as well start stating on any items I want to sell here Canada only.
I have no problem filling out customs forms to send items to the U.S. and beyond.
I would even pay part of the shipping charges to facilitate the sale but it seems to not matter.
If this is the case I might as well just chuck all of the items I want to get rid of into the trash and be done with it.

Doug

MattKing · Jul 12, 2021

As I understand it, one difference is that for within US sales, the USPS will actually pick up from the seller, whereas that service isn't provided for international sales.
And unlike here, where we can complete the customs documentation and pay for the postage all from our computers, the US postal service requires you to go to a post office, stand in line and then complete the customs forms there.
In normal times, I have the option of having purchases delivered to a US address that is just on the other side of the border, which is 13 blocks away.
But these aren't normal times.
And these far from normal times have had a large affect on delivery times.
I understand your frustration though.

mgb74 · Jul 12, 2021

In most cases it's quite easy to fill out the custom forms if you're using some sort of automated shipping program.

But I'll give you a few possibilities as to why:

Risk of loss. More likely that a package gets misdirected along the way. And I've read of a couple of cases where a package was so delayed, the buyer requested and received a refund - but the package was never returned to seller. I've also read of buyers who have refused a package when they got hit with expensive customs duties. Though hasn't happened to me.
Additional expense. At least with paypal, there are both currency exchange fees and international transaction fees. So if you price an item at $100, you might get $92 instead of $97. Though I've noticed that a lot of Canadians maintain a paypal account in US dollars.
Wasted effort. Someone inquires and wants to know the shipping cost. You go through the effort of calculating, then they come back and say the shipping cost is too high.

spoolman · Jul 12, 2021

mgb74 said:
In most cases it's quite easy to fill out the custom forms if you're using some sort of automated shipping program.

But I'll give you a few possibilities as to why:

Risk of loss. More likely that a package gets misdirected along the way. And I've read of a couple of cases where a package was so delayed, the buyer requested and received a refund - but the package was never returned to seller. I've also read of buyers who have refused a package when they got hit with expensive customs duties. Though hasn't happened to me.

Additional expense. At least with paypal, there are both currency exchange fees and international transaction fees. So if you price an item at $100, you might get $92 instead of $97. Though I've noticed that a lot of Canadians maintain a paypal account in US dollars.

Wasted effort. Someone inquires and wants to know the shipping cost. You go through the effort of calculating, then they come back and say the shipping cost is too high.

Thanks all for your responses.So what advice would you all have for someone in my position? Short of giving all of these items away,which I would prefer not to do as I need the money, and short of selling on ebay which is a bit of a pain but at this point it seems the only other choice other than tossing all of it into the trash.

Doug

cramej · Jul 12, 2021

Generally, shipping charges for items sent outside the US are exorbitant. Paying $50-100 for a $100 camera is absurd. USPS medium flat rate boxes to Canada are $54.65. UPS Standard to Toronto is $50. FedEx is $51. I purchased a camera from Canada earlier this year and it was far less expensive to ship ($28 USD).

I also agree with the extra risk of loss as stated above and the absolute pain it is to file a claim. Too many stories of something getting 'stuck' at the border because something wasn't filled out to the T.

spoolman said:
Thanks all for your responses.So what advice would you all have for someone in my position? Short of giving all of these items away,which I would prefer not to do as I need the money, and short of selling on ebay which is a bit of a pain but at this point it seems the only other choice other than tossing all of it into the trash.

Doug

It seems that shipping items from Canada is easier than to Canada. I wouldn't be too concerned. There are lots of other Canadia(e)ns on here, too.

MattKing · Jul 12, 2021

spoolman said:
Thanks all for your responses.So what advice would you all have for someone in my position? Short of giving all of these items away,which I would prefer not to do as I need the money, and short of selling on ebay which is a bit of a pain but at this point it seems the only other choice other than tossing all of it into the trash.

Doug

I have had lots of success selling into the US and internationally. One thing I find really helpful is the fact that PayPal has integrated into it a Canada Post system for creating shipping invoices which includes the customs documentation - you even get the advantage of slightly better rates. You just need to use the PayPal "Create Invoice" function to be able to access that system. Your shipping costs come directly from the PayPal payment received - no waiting for holds, or need to pay shipping from other resources.
I warn people in my listings that Canada Post is more expensive than the USPS, and I quote small amounts for handling - primarily to defray the cost for packing materials.

nmp · Jul 12, 2021

spoolman said:
Thanks all for your responses.So what advice would you all have for someone in my position? Short of giving all of these items away,which I would prefer not to do as I need the money, and short of selling on ebay which is a bit of a pain but at this point it seems the only other choice other than tossing all of it into the trash.

Doug

You don't have a problem filling out the customs form and ship to the US. Then why do you need to toss anything in the trash. The problem as I understand from the your posts is folks from US are not willing to sell to you in Canada. Seems to be two different things.

mgb74 · Jul 12, 2021

spoolman said:
Thanks all for your responses.So what advice would you all have for someone in my position? Short of giving all of these items away,which I would prefer not to do as I need the money, and short of selling on ebay which is a bit of a pain but at this point it seems the only other choice other than tossing all of it into the trash.

Doug

Selling on ebay is more of a pain than selling here. Especially now that you have to agree to their "managed payments".

Postage rates are set by international agreements. For example, it's far cheaper to mail something from China to the US than it is to mail from the US to China. For me to mail a 1lb package to Toronto (from my US zip 56468) would cost $21.25 via First Class package or $40.25 via priority mail. But First Class package doesn't have tracking, so an issue with paypal (though there is now some level of tracking via the customs number). I'm curious as to what it would cost you to mail a 1lb package to me.

I've sold a number of items to Canadian buyers. But you might have a hard time selling to US buyers, given shipping cost, unless the item is fairly unique.

Foto Ludens · Jul 12, 2021

mgb74 said:
Risk of loss. More likely that a package gets misdirected along the way. And I've read of a couple of cases where a package was so delayed, the buyer requested and received a refund - but the package was never returned to seller. I've also read of buyers who have refused a package when they got hit with expensive customs duties. Though hasn't happened to me.

Additional expense. At least with paypal, there are both currency exchange fees and international transaction fees. So if you price an item at $100, you might get $92 instead of $97. Though I've noticed that a lot of Canadians maintain a paypal account in US dollars.

Wasted effort. Someone inquires and wants to know the shipping cost. You go through the effort of calculating, then they come back and say the shipping cost is too high.

All of these are concerns for me. I've actually received a message (on eBay) from an international potential buyer complaining that the quoted shipping cost was too high (eBay calculates the cost for each potential buyer if I enter the dimensions and weight of the package), and asking why I don't sell internationally...

Incidentally, I find eBay to be an easy way to sell gear. Sold a few cameras there recently (before and after the eBay managed payments) with no issues.

gordrob · Jul 12, 2021

spoolman said:
Thanks all for your responses.So what advice would you all have for someone in my position? Short of giving all of these items away,which I would prefer not to do as I need the money, and short of selling on ebay which is a bit of a pain but at this point it seems the only other choice other than tossing all of it into the trash.

Doug

Post your items here on Photrio. There are a lot of Canadians on this site that may be interested in what you have that you want to sell. Ebay takes about 12 1/2% of your selling price so you have to jack your price by at least that much to get what you want for the item. Plus they take another 10% of your shipping fees so they must be adjusted accordingly so you don't loose on the shipping. Another option for selling in Canada is Kijiji, no fees and a large audience. I posted some large format items to sell locally because of their size - I didn't get any local interest but sold items to the Maritimes, Ontario and Quebec. Facebook and Varage are other social media sites that have sale sites.
Shipping smaller items to the US through Canada Post as a tracked package will usually cost around $15. It will probably cost you a little more to post the same package to a Canadian destination. Canada Post has a page on their web site that allows you get a estimate of the cost whether it is domestic, USA or international destination. You can prepare your shipping documents on line and pay via credit card and then drop your parcel off at a post box or postal station. No standing in line. It works great. Then with the Canada Post App on your phone you can track the package to its destination. If I purchase an item from the USA, I want it shipped through USPS because basically the postal charges are known up front. I don't ever use Global Shipping on Ebay or FedEx or UPS because of the added fees that are charged for processing the item through customs.

beemermark · Jul 12, 2021

I used to sell internationally. Canada was the 1st country I stopped selling to. This was awhile ago but delivery even to the larger cities took forever, Once a package/camera was destroyed in transit and it took a year with the help of my Post Master to collect the insurance from the Canadian PO. Every country has their own rules and regulations and usually tracking numbers disappear when they enter a foreign country, lost a couple of packages because of this. Postage is exorbitant and as noted you need to go to the PO and stand in line. And finally - WHY? The US is probably the biggest buyers and sellers of cameras. I really don't need to attract foreign customers to buy my stuff.

removedacct1 · Jul 12, 2021

I've known a few people who insist when purchasing a camera from outside the USA, that you to falsify the customs form and grossly undervalue the item just to avoid paying duty. If you say no, the odds are you will get an unpleasant response. The sale will almost certainly vanish, at any rate. Sure, its lazy for someone to say they don't want to bother filling out the customs forms, but having done it plenty of times, its a pain. But I do it anyway.
Yes, the cost of shipping something internationally can be outrageous, but if the buyer agrees to the estimated price, then I see no point in denying them the purchase. The last few times I sold cameras, one went to Taiwan, one went to Norway, one went to Canada. The ones that shipped to Norway and Taiwan cost $65 USD to ship. So yeah, the shipping cost can be prohibitive. If someone expected me to charge $20 for that service, they'd be out of luck. Its a costly business.
Also, my recent shipments out of country too up to 6 weeks to be delivered. The longest time was Norway, at 6+ weeks.

All that said, I see no reason to be sour about it and threaten to discard your stuff, unless of course that will make you feel good about your decision, in which case, go ahead!

BradS · Jul 12, 2021

I used to be very happy to sell and ship pretty much world-wide. I've shipped a 11x14 Century studio camera to Whitehorse, Yukon Canada, a Besseler-Minolta 45 color head to Italy, a 5x7 Burke & James Commercial View camera to England, an 8x10 Tachihara field camera to Australia, etc...but I am very reluctant to ship internationally anymore - although I would not hesitate to ship to Canada. For me, it has nothing to do with the customs forms and everything to do with the costs, delays, and resultant risk. The cost of International shipping from the US is exorbitant. For example, and as already mentioned, the shipping cost to send a USPS Priority mail medium flat rate box (big enough for a 35mm SLR body) to Canada is $50 and if I remember correctly it is something like $80 to send that same box to Australia. I'm generally happy to ship to Canada, Australia, the UK and a few EU countries but few are willing to pay the actual cost of shipping. The real bug-a-boo for me is the risk. When the buyer pays with paypal, essentially all of the risk is on the seller. So, the cost along with the risk...it's just not worth it to me anymore. Buyers won't pay the shipping for low cost (low risk) items and I am not willing to take the risk on high value items. It is a bummer for me too but...that's the way it is.

faberryman · Jul 12, 2021

Given higher shipping costs, another reason not to do sales internationally for smaller dollar items is that if the buyer determines for any reason the item is not as advertised, you’ll end up paying for shipping both ways to get the item back. Factor in three or four weeks that the item is out of your hands and not available for sale. One alternative is to negotiate a partial refund. Unscrupulous buyer know this too.

DonW · Jul 12, 2021

For those that only seem to post "for sale" items on Photrio and nothing else and won't ship internationally I just put them on ignore. That way I don't know what I have missed.

Arthurwg · Jul 12, 2021

I sold a very nice and valuable wooden camera to a guy in England and sent it through the mail. It arrived in splinters. Obviously it was dropped, thrown or otherwise mistreated, The buyer was not happy but had the camera repaired at his own expense. But who needs this kind of problem? The camera was packed in a double box and was well padded. It's just not worth the trouble.

David A. Goldfarb · Jul 12, 2021

Personally, I have no problem selling internationally so long as the purchaser is covering the shipping cost, and I think people who don’t are missing out on potential sales, but ultimately, sales on Photrio are private agreements between the seller and the buyer, and they can come to any sort of agreement that suits both parties.

That also means you can contact the seller privately, and try to convince the seller to sell you the item, no matter what they say in the ad, because you never know what other factors may be at play. For instance, if you’re a long time forum participant and the best offer they have is from someone who just joined, they may decide that it’s safer to sell to a known quantity in another country than to a domestic purchaser they don’t know, or maybe they have no other offers, and might be willing to go to the post office to make a sale.

One issue during the pandemic has been unusually long shipping times, because of the reduced number of passenger flights, which also may carry parcels. This creates anxiety on both sides, because a package that used to take 10 days may now take 2 months, and more time in the system means more risk of loss or damage, and some buyers and sellers might just not want to deal with all that uncertainty. For the time being, I’ve stopped purchasing items from abroad, until things get back to normal.

I’ve occasionally written privately to sellers who state “CONUS” in the ad, explaining that flat-rate shipping to Hawai’i is the same as shipping to anywhere else in the continental U.S., and usually they’ve come around and sold me the item.

spoolman · Jul 12, 2021

Thanks for your responses. One other option I might have is to state local pickup. That may narrow the field of potential buyers but it would ensure that the item got to the buyer in one piece. I know about delays in the postal system. I had one item coming from Rhode Island that spent 23 days in Chicago before it got to me but I took into account the delays due to pandemic restrictions. Yes I agree that shipping costs are an obstacle to selling to international areas which is why,when I do sell on eBay, I only sell to the U.S. and Canada. As I said in one of my previous posts, I was willing to eat some of the shipping cost to complete the sale.

As far as other sites,such as Kijiji, I have had limited success,even when I widen the selling area to include Canada. As far as trashing the items,that is a last option precipitated by the shipping cost frustration and no it will not make me feel good if I do that but, in my opinion, my choices are limited but some of the options put forward here have given me something to think about.

Doug

laser · Jul 12, 2021

International shipping from the US is difficult, risky, and expensive.

Customs forms are required. usps.com doesn't always work properly.

Filling out the customs forms at the post office takes time including a trip to the post office.

USPS clerks are seldom familiar with international requirements. If they make an error the package is returned.

International shipping is expensive: 5 pounds of books costs at least $70 to most countries. Shipping 5# of books to a US address is $6.

If there is a problem USPS is unresponsive in trying to find the package or paying claims. I have been trying to resolve an international claim for over a year. I have phoned, written to the USPS Consumer Advocate etc. "We are looking in to it" is the best I receive in response. If you telephone the USPS claims department the wait time exceeds 30 minutes. When you get some one they usually are unable to help. They transfer you and typically you end up back in the >30 minute que.

It simply isn't worth the effort. cost, or risk ship internationally unless it is a high priced item. This handicaps US business and citizens of other countries do not have access to materials from the USA.

It is not the fault of the seller or the buyer.

BobD · Jul 12, 2021

I am in the US and I don't mind buying gear from Canada on eBay.

binglebugbob · Jul 12, 2021

I've sold a few surplus things outside the US. But, I can't tell you how many times I've gone through the time consuming drill of finding shipping costs and not even received a reply from the interested party when informed of the cost.. I suspect many who haven't dealt with the Post Office just aren't familiar with current shipping costs--domestic OR foreign..

Insurance for shipping outside the US may be available, but it's expensive and buyers generally don't want to pay for it. However, unless the buyer is informed and agrees up front that uninsured packages are shipped at the the buyer's risk, buyers may assume that if the package is lost or damaged, the seller should cover the loss--with no markup for risk.

Then, as previously mentioned, combine that with a trip to the post office and spending up to 20 minutes there. Just my opinion, but for sellers, selling outside the US may become more an act of "international goodwill" than a business transaction. I hope buyers appreciate that.

mgb74 · Jul 12, 2021

I don't understand the multiple comments about having to go to the Post Office to fill out forms. You can create and pay for the shipment online, including customs forms, via the USPS website, as well as paypal and ebay websites. And using Paypal (which you can do even if not paid via paypal) you get a discount on shipping.

gone · Jul 12, 2021

Selling on eBay has become a bit of a PITA, and they keep raising their seller fees.....let's face it, this is a really crappy company when it comes to ethical business practices and customer service (hint, there is none), as is every other company that comes out of the S.F. Bay Area in my eyes. But, eBay's where the buyers tend to lurk. Beware of their "Good Till Cancelled" scam they dreamed up on their Buy It Now listings. After a week or so, if your stuff hasn't sold, the ads automatically renew, and you get charged on EACH ITEM that is renewed. So you're out money even if your items don't sell! I tried Etsy, and they just don't have much of a market, unfortunately.

Selling or buying out of the US is a problem these days. If the item isn't what the ad stated, it can cost a fortune to ship it back, even if that seller is just across the border in Canada. There are more than a few people who have gotten burned on international shipping, for whatever reason. By the way, the US ONLY SALE thing goes both ways. I've seen international ads that stated they were for EU buyers only.

faberryman · Jul 12, 2021

mgb74 said:
I don't understand the multiple comments about having to go to the Post Office to fill out forms. You can create and pay for the shipment online, including customs forms, via the USPS website, as well as paypal and ebay websites. And using Paypal (which you can do even if not paid via paypal) you get a discount on shipping.

I suspect many people don’t have a postage scale and don’t want to buy one.

gone · Jul 12, 2021

faberryman said:
I suspect many people don’t have a postage scale and don’t want to buy one.

You can print out a shipping label for your package online w/ just a house scale for most camera items. The problem comes in when you have to go to the Post Office (and here in the US, most people would rather go to the dentist every day than go there even once).

Our post offices are like something right out of a Communist country. Things work in baffling ways, no one is responsible for anything, and if someone has to ship something that is a little tiny bit out of the ordinary, it may require all the postal employees to huddle up and formulate some sort of byzantine rule just for you! Or, they disappear into the back, never to be seen again. Getting them to tell you exactly what happened to your shipment is like talking to the cat, and just about as enlightening.

Every time I leave a US post office I think, wow, what a great place to film a horror movie. You don't even need sets or actors, just film what happens there during a "normal" day.

why is it that ads selling items state U.S. only ?

spoolman

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David A. Goldfarb

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spoolman

laser

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mgb74

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why is it that ads selling items state U.S. only ?

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