Why is it so hard to sell?

I’d built an extensive Bronica S2A setup with custom adaptations and such that I sold as a kit eventually. Occasionally I look at images or reprint negs from that camera and wonder why I sold it, since it was so versatile, and I had a great set of lenses from 40mm to 500mm. Ultimately, though, I decided it was distracting me from large format, and I wanted to concentrate my technique on using a view camera or a technical camera, even when shooting rollfilm, and if I didn’t use my view cameras regularly, my technique would get rusty, and I’d make more errors. Also owning cameras I wasn’t using regularly became a maintenance expense, so better I should use my Linhofs more than divide time between more systems.

The one I can’t seem to sell, though is my Canon New F-1, purchased new in the early 1980s, even though I’ve sold most of my FD lenses and don’t shoot much 35mm film anymore. I’ve owned it longer than any other camera I have, so I know it better than any other. I pick it up, and everything is intuitive, and I can make all the adjustments without taking my eye off the viewfinder. Since we’ve been under a new stay-at-home order with the recent spike of COVID-19 cases, I took it out again after a couple years of sitting in the case. I didn’t even have a good battery for it, but it has a range of mechanical shutter speeds, and I can manage with “sunny 16” and an external meter, until I could order a new battery. I keep it loaded with Tri-X and have it ready with a 400mm/f:4.5 when I’m working at home on the balcony to see if I can get any good flight shots of the white fairy terns that hang out around here.

Well made pro MF equipment doesn't tend to wear out, so there's a glut of it on the used market. And even in the MF film niche, there's currently much more interest in lighter more portable gear. Even my 4x5 kits weigh less than an RZ system. Supply and demand.

I concur and empathize: Letting go of good equipment is somewhat difficult. In addition to the emotional distress of letting go of some favorite piece of equipment, consider what follows after the decision to sell has been made:

1. You will be getting pennies on the dollar (very few exceptions).
2. You will need to set aside some time to take pictures of the gear.
3. Download the photos on your computer and then on the listing.
4. Write a brief description, being very careful to look for any cosmetic issues (that you hadn’t noticed until then). Be very careful about shipping costs - some items are heavy or bulky, or both - try to be accurate - weigh, measure box, use USPS online calculator to estimate the cost.
5. Check for any questions and answer them. The answers may already be in the listing but few people read beyond the third sentence, some reassurance may be needed.
6. The item sells - the buyer pays - copy the sipping address.
7. Look for the box and packing materials - the one you set aside just for this - where is it? If ‘someone’ threw it out, find another one - it might be bigger - more packing material needed - your estimated shipping cost has gone out the window: you will have to absorb it.
8. Buyer has his own set of instruction on how to pack and ship and for good reasons: he has received packages with damaged goods because of poor packaging and lengthy delivery time because the seller didn’t want to ship Priority (for whatever reason).
9. You reassure the buyer.
10. You seal the item in a plastic bag Before wrapping it in packing material - why? because the mailman will leave the box on the buyer’s doorstep, even though it’s raining cats and dogs.
10. Seal the box all around, make sure the shipping label is accurate, or it will come back to you in several days.
11. Go to the Post Office during your lunch hour or after work - like everyone else - wait in line. Hopefully you have brought something to distract you - reading materials are best; I personally recommend Dostoyevsky’s “The Damned”.
12, After 20-30- 40? minutes, it’s your turn but you wish it hadn’t been because you will have to interact with the one, and only, surly employee - the one who always addresses you as: “siiir?” with a subliminal question mark.
13. Priority Mail, please. No insurance on this, Just the tracking No.
14. “Anything liquid, or fragile or...? “ - No..
15. The shipping cost is way different than was calculated. It is a little more, a lot more - too bad. It’s quite a bit less than calculated - that sucks because you will need to take the time to refund it.
16. Let the buyer know the Tracking No.
17. The package arrives: the buyer is satisfied and all is well (1 out of 7 will let you know); the buyer says that when he holds the item under a strong light and a a certain angle, he sees very faint scratch; he demands satisfaction (i.e. some money back) - deal with it - in a myriad of ways: appease (not recommended if you know he’s being unreasonable, untruthful), offer a full refund and be done with it.
14. Wait about 45 days before you spend the money - it’s really not yours yet - buyer may decide to file a claim on the 44th day after the purchase because: it doesn’t work as it’s supposed to (i.e., he broke it!) or numerous other reasons.

I know I’m forgetting some details

Renato Tonelli said:

I concur and empathize: Letting go of good equipment is somewhat difficult. In addition to the emotional distress of letting go of some favorite piece of equipment, consider what follows after the decision to sell has been made:

1. You will be getting pennies on the dollar (very few exceptions).

Click to expand...

Perhaps. And things have changed since I worked at arbitraging between camera shows (nearly all gone), dealers' web sites (nearly all gone), eBay (yes!) and eBay. But my little arbitrage operations kept me in lunch money, sometimes more, for years. These days buying low, buying low and selling high's prerequisite, is much harder than it used to be. But I still make the occasional good snag.

If you're selling common stuff that you bought new, well, that's an entirely different situation.

abruzzi said:

I have plenty of stuff, I’d happily sell, but there is no local market for film gear, and I don’t feel like booking and shipping, and even more, dealing with buyers long distance.

Click to expand...

It's not worth the aggravation.

Don't worry about selling it. When you die, you're wife's new husband will throw it out. Along with your landscape photos.

Alan Edward Klein said:

It's not worth the aggravation.

Click to expand...

Sometimes it is. I once sold a lens, my cost $0.00, for $3,500.

Dan Fromm said:

Sometimes it is. I once sold a lens, my cost $0.00, for $3,500.

Click to expand...

It is sometimes worth the aggravation, but I don't know about the regret. I've read plenty of people here saying they regret selling some beloved piece of gear, but never heard anyone say the regretted keeping it. Too often, it is worth more to me than I could get selling it.

Sometimes not... I do sell some point and shoots now and then. I come across some popular ones every once and awhile and think they will be handy to have around to throw in my pocket, but I just hardly ever use them. They are easy to sell and easy to ship. I still keep a couple of unique ones around, though.

Too much work. Too little nice stuff out there. In 15 years nice examples of nice equipment will be harder and harder to find.

Kids have toys, why not me. At least it's not a $90,000 car getting hail damage. You want to talk foolish, boats and sports cars. Fun though!

Ariston said:

It is sometimes worth the aggravation, but I don't know about the regret. I've read plenty of people here saying they regret selling some beloved piece of gear, but never heard anyone say the regretted keeping it. Too often, it is worth more to me than I could get selling it.

Click to expand...

Well, y'know, I have a very clean 4"/2.0 TTH Anastigmat ex-Vinten F.95 in the drawer. It cost me $30 delivered. Demand for the things has fallen off somewhat but at their peak they brought around $2,500. They transact less often than they used to but I understand that these days the going rate is around $1,000.

I had to call the seller in England to make the transaction. We had a long chat and corresponded after it arrived. A friendship developed. Clive is dead now but I treasure the memory and the lens. I don't regret not selling it when the selling was good and I don't regret keeping it now.

Yes, I'm a sentimental fool. So what?

Alan Edward Klein said:

Don't worry about selling it. When you die, you're wife's new husband will throw it out. Along with your landscape photos.

Click to expand...

Ha! Believe it or not, my wife tells me I shouldn't sell anything. She says it is about as healthy of a hobby as you can have, so she supports it.

I just have a lot of cameras at this point. It is hard for me to pass up an outstanding deal on good gear, and I still come across them surprisingly regularly.

Dan Fromm said:

Well, y'know, I have a very clean 4"/2.0 TTH Anastigmat ex-Vinten F.95 in the drawer. It cost me $30 delivered. Demand for the things has fallen off somewhat but at their peak they brought around $2,500. They transact less often than they used to but I understand that these days the going rate is around $1,000.

I had to call the seller in England to make the transaction. We had a long chat and corresponded after it arrived. A friendship developed. Clive is dead now but I treasure the memory and the lens. I don't regret not selling it when the selling was good and I don't regret keeping it now.

Yes, I'm a sentimental fool. So what?

Click to expand...

I am with you. I am sentimental about the people right here on Photrio, because they have been so kind and helpful in my skill development. I have a Speed Graphic that I will never, ever get rid of because John was kind enough to GIVE it to me to get me started in large format. I now love large format, and it (by a wide margin) results in the most keepers for me.

I'm now in my seventies, and I alternate/vacillate/hesitate/oscillate//falter/teeter/waver/fluctuate/dither (your choice) between clearing the decks of my stash of film cameras, nowadays rarely used, and holding on to them because of my emotional attachment to them or their place in the history of my life.

There are the Rollei TLRs, the oldest (a 3.5E2) I've owned since 1966, bought new after a year of saving. It has some lens separation but still produces crisp chromes and B&W. What would I get if I sold it - maybe $250-$300? Then the two Rolleiflex Ts, bought in the 1990s, with 16 exposure kits and a bag of accessories, maybe worth a little more than the E2, but really not that much. Or the rough-as-guts Rolleicord Vb, I picked up for $95 at an estate sale, with filters, close-ups and 16 and 24 exposure kits. Not worth a lot, but it works just fine, and I love it and I still use it often.

The five Nikkormats. Two ELs, bought new, my first 'serious' cameras when I went to 35mm. Six or seven F mount lenses, hoods, filters, close-ups. Three FT2s, bought dirt-cheaply when everyone was dumping film gear for 6 MB DSLRs. I've used those ELs hard, and they go on shooting, meter spot-on and do everything SLRs from the era when they were designed and built with care, did and still do. When I hold an EL, memories come back - how poor I was in the early '70s, how long I saved to buy them, how hard I worked even to buy film. They are part of me, of my earlier life, like the Rollei E2. .
Four Contax G1s with five lenses in the 21-90 range. I fell hard for this camera when it came out and by then my design agency was doing well enough so I could throw a few buckets of money on cameras and lenses. Those G1s are elegant beasts and electro-techo marvels and I still delight in using them, if rarely. .

Also the two Nikon F65s 9(aka N65) with kit lenses, the half dozen German folders from the 1950s, the ancient Kodaks, a Pentax ME someone gave me . A few lowly 1980s and 1990s P&S toys that somehow made such good images. The boxes and boxes of photo accessories. And the darkroom... never mind.

But hey, I'm getting better. In my prime I had six Hasselblads, a 501, two 500CMs and three ELs, imagine! After I retired in 2012 I bit a box of bullets to the quick and offloaded the 'blads, 20+ SLRs and small rangefinders, and other gewgaws.

What of my prized cameras? These will probably stay with me until I'm taken to the bone orchard or recycled into a rose garden. The others will go to new homes as and when people I know again get interested in film, which is again happening here in Australia. Selling for cents on the dolla) is wasted valuable time. For me anything to do with Ebay is like having teeth pulled without anaesthetic. We all need a certain level of aggravation to keep us functioning in this crazed world, but to me Ebay is going three steps too far to insanity.

After much reflection I've decided I've too much else to do in whatever time is left to me, and too little time in which to do the ever-growing list. Plus my partner, our home, my travels and our cats to look after and cherish and enjoy. Good wine to be savored over alfresco lunches and elegant dinners at home or with friends who, sadly, are now falling off their perches and going off into the great unknown.

So my film cameras will stay. Often I take them out, dust them off, put them through their paces and marvel at how long the batteries have lasted and how well these metal antiques from a past century are functioning after so many years of use and some abuse. Very much like, I keep hoping, their owner.

I sold a Pentax 67 II ,75 f2.8 and a Leica M6 and used it toward a down payment on my house, and have no regrets. A Hasselblad 501c is the only film camera I now own and love everything about it, except the over the top repair cost. Knock on wood.

I used to sell off whatever camera equipment that I was not using. Now I keep those cameras because I might use them, besides it is not like I need the little money I would get for them.

If I am perfectly honest. As a RB67 owner for myself the better balance is maybe a 6x6 camera. It is square, it is more portable that you can use it more often outside and be on the run with it also (walk). The RB67 becomes more deliberate which gets less use. I could never dream about going overseas with a few family members doing normal stuff like eating out and shopping and and sightseeing. Taking public transportation and spend 8hrs outside a day which is what many people do on trips. I bought the RB67 2yr or a bit more ago so the prices already bottomed out so now the prices have gone up a bit.

Yes, it is larger it's not square, yes it's got a rotatable back, yes the viewfinder is larger, yes with the loupe on the WLF I can still see all 4 corners. Yes, it is much cheaper and you can build a kit for much cheaper. Overall, compared to what things cost nowadays new in the shops even a 6x6 even a Hasselblad isn't that bad if one was just going to build a 2 or 3 lens kit. It's not in production anymore and it is not like you would be endlessly upgrading all the time.

My hesitation of selling it has been the gear is quite good and it is so cheap even thou I don't use it that often.

pressureworld said:

I sold a Pentax 67 II ,75 f2.8 and a Leica M6 and used it toward a down payment on my house, and have no regrets. A Hasselblad 501c is the only film camera I now own and love everything about it, except the over the top repair cost. Knock on wood.

Click to expand...

I am in New Zealand, so a lack of camera techs. I got in contact with Japan, Mamiya still CLAs RB67 but they cost $400US abouts which is actually not far off from a former Hasselbald Tech in Queensland Australia.

Alan Edward Klein said:

Don't worry about selling it. When you die, you're wife's new husband will throw it out. Along with your landscape photos.

Click to expand...

That is true with every hobby not just photography. Does makes me think how much I spend into my hobby more recently after I have a few items. They probably think we are strange, we take photos of things then the photo just sit there in their various ways.

Selling kit often includes selling some of your history, which I feel, makes it that much more difficult.

Gifting kit, on the other hand, (yes, I know this is a bit self-serving, considering my 'Wanted posts' gives you the opportunity to feel good about the parting, in effect, it gives you a positive feeling and closure, similar to other personal relationships iduring our lives.

IMO.

A big 'minus' factor working against sellers of MF or any other old film photo gear these days is the unreasonable expectations some sellers have about the value of what they are trying to flog off - Ebay being a classic instance of too many vendors seemingly addicted to the dreaded Value Vs Worth Syndrome.

With film cameras and their lenses and accessories, often saved for diligently at a time when our incomes weren't all that high and subsequently used and loved by us over several decades, many (I've been as guilty of this as the rest) would-be sellers fondly recall the $2,000 or more paid twenty or more years ago when that was big money for our beloved kit and consequently set out to recoup all that money - all too often disregarding the dozens of exact-similar cameras and kits on offer on Ebay and other web sales sites, most for literally cents on the dollar.

We hopefuls sometimes seem to forget that photo gear sales operate on a cyclical basis and currently film cameras are firmly a buyer's market. A camera worth $1,000 in 1990 was a big money item then but thirty years later has been well used (and perhaps not serviced) and realistically will fetch only a fraction of its new sales price fresh from the camera shop. As well it may find itself being listed with a dozen or more of the same camera at wildly varied prices. Condition of course is another thing entirely - for the sake of discussion let's go with a camera in working order, not a clapped-out junker.

A good example of this is the saga of an Australian would-be buyer posting on another photo site, who recently saw the asking price of what looked to be a well-used Rolleiflex 2.8 with lens issues move upward from a start negotiating price of <A$600 to >A$1,300 after the seller reposted it on a well-known auction site. Ordinarily I'm not one to hold vindictive feelings for any camera vendor, but in this case I did hope the seller would choke on his (apparently yet unsold) TLR. The disappointed buyer then found another sale site and bought a seemingly VG+ condition Rollei 3.5 for <A$500, a bargain for any Rollei. My thoughts on this were all good things come to those with the patience to wait and look for a better deal - for this lucky buyer, now comes the fun of buying 120 roll film for this new 'baby' at the inflated prices we Aussie MF shooters get soaked for it, even online. Expired film is an option, a lot of it currently on offer from reliable Ebay sellers.

In summing up, a wannabee seller looking to offload used camera gear needs to critically think his/her motives in so doing and the purpose of raising cash for old cameras - me, I will only ever sell (I'm currently not doing so) to offset the cost of new equipment. I would go into the sale market with an eye to making a reasonable return, not trying to recoup what I paid way back when plus a profit and/or an adjustment for inflation over the years. It helps to remember the pleasure you had in using the camera, but when the time comes let it go for what is a sensible price, not a fantasy win.

Eli Griggs (#43) presented a good viewpoint - gifting/donating can be as satisfying an outcome as trying to sell some gear, especially when photographing the item, writing a good description of it, posting, dealing with the inevitable bottom-feed offers, having to work with Paypal, packaging, off to the post office, and waiting for complaints comes into play. To my mind, life is too short for such suffering.

All this said entirely without prejudice, as always.

I'm more of a user than a collector. I don't have much of an emotional attachment to most of the photo gear I currently have and tend to accumulate and then sell in cycles. A few years ago I was really into box cameras, had about 30 of them. No way I could use that many so I sold all but three really old ones. I don't see the benefit of having a lot of money tied up in stuff I'll likely never use and would rather cash it out so I can get something else I like. Also, since I started using an 8x10 K2D this year I find I'm running out of storage space, so I sell off things i just don't use.


Kent in SD

Two23 said:

No way I could use that many...
Kent in SD

Click to expand...

One reason some of us have more than two camera's or so, is using different camera's can no only be entertaining, but challenging enough to keep photography, interesting, on several fronts.

It's also good to have the resources to see you through periods of seeking a new approach to your photography/art.

IMO.

I acquire, use for a while, then sell off...very little emotional attachment to equipment.
Not sure if it's a quest for a magic bullet, or just changing interests.
If I didn't sell off my unused gear, I wouldn't be able to walk around in my apartment.

Focusing is about saying "No":
https://medium.com/@donhopkins/focusing-is-about-saying-no-steve-jobs-wwdc-97-ff0174c171d0

When I dipped my toes back into the film world, I wanted to explore all sorts of things I had missed previously, and I was keen to do a lot of experimentation. But over time, I've discovered that while a few have delivered a good deal of satisfaction, many others failed to hold my attention for very long, or else my interest simply changed over time. While I'll continue to take some wrong turns here and there, I think the future will see me with fewer cameras and lenses and also fewer types of them, but the ones which remain will hopefully be more meaningful to me.

On a tangential note, it's been a moderately busy year for me selling stuff on That Auction Site, and while one or two final sale prices barely seemed worth my while, on the whole the undertaking has been very much worth my while.

35mm: Just sold off all my Leica gear, and it feels good. The original intent had been to cover film and digital... and then just film as the digital stayed more expensive than I could rationalize. Tried. But instead made the switch to Nikon for the same: Digital and Film for the same set of lenses but this time with autofocus which after chasing (and missing) grand kids... switching to AF-D's was exactly the right thing to do. This latter move has worked... even though digital is mostly DSLR scanning and film is what I shoot.

MF: I've shot mostly a Rolleiflex 3.5F but have a 6008 series and lenses acquired at relatively high cost. KEH offers pennies for the latter, but like someone else wrote selling direct is too much of a pain, so I haven't. I think about it. I have it set out to do, but haven't. Yes, it's hard. In this case - it's neat gear, but I'm just not running it enough to keep. Still thinking on this one.

LF: I originally bought a studio-ish Arca-Swiss Model B. Used it enough to swing after a Chamonix. Priced selling it with KEH. Sad to say, even a used camera bought as new-to-me can end up a costly mistake.
Sitting on the basement floor, set out with the Rolleiflex 6008 for sale. Will eventually bite the bullet on both, but other priorities "keep coming up...."

All of this is to say that even a late-to-the-game guy can make mistakes, change ups, and end up biting the bullet. Education costs a lot more after college as the patriarch of the Bass family used to say, and I'd agree just about any which way you apply anything involving experience.

Ariston said:

Have you struggled with this problem? Is it a co-infection of GAS?

Click to expand...

I've got a canon 1Ds II that I bought 15 years ago and that I use about four times a year, if that. I keep it because I won't be able to afford to replace it with a new version (about $6500), and because when I do use it, it takes great images. But, I sold all my MF film gear when I thought I didn't need it, around the same time (Pentax 67, Mamiya 6x6 and others. Last week I bought a Horseman 6x9 film camera, because I was hankering after the good old MF film days. But, I spent those 15 years genuinely not needing the MF gear and it would have stayed on the shelf.

If you're using the RB system, keep it. If you're not, ask yourself if you're ever going to do so again - or at least for 15 years. If the answer is no, sell it.