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Why is it so difficult to find out where a camera or lens or a product was made?

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Chan Tran

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If you're researching about a product you want to buy or interested in for example a camera, you can get tons of information with specs, pictures, videos, opinions, how to use it etc.. on the internet but if you want to find out where it is made it seems impossible. Why is it so? Why manufacturers when providing a lot of pictures of the product they carefully keep the "made in xxxxx" marking from visible? The same thing with reviewers, they do provide a lot of pictures of the product but not a hint where it is made.
 
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Chan Tran

Chan Tran

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Because, to be blunt, people in general don't care how or where something is made.

That's true especially in the USA. I don't know how it is in Europe where you are. In Japan they do care.
 

koraks

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Europe is the same. People don't know and don't care, and there's a relationship between these things. Not caring means there's no incentive to learn, which in turn results in a lack of awareness of relevant knowledge related to manufacturing in a broad sense. This appears to coincide with the rise to prominence of the service economy, which involves fewer and fewer people being trained in manufacturing-related fields and fewer manufacturing firms being active (esp. proportionally to the economy at large). It's also apparent in media; manufacturing does not feature at all in mainstream media of course, and the handful of journalists who do report occasionally about the manufacturing industry or related topics, are generally lacking in technical knowledge/background, resulting in an inability to grasp what developemts may or may not be relevant and how to make sense of the evidence they might stumble across by accident.

Sorry to sound all jaded, but I'm afraid that Western society overall has degenerated to a state of only caring whether something is featured on TikTok and whether we can afford to purchase it, without exhibiting the slightest interest in, or awareness of how or where something is made. Manufacturing is regarded as the grimy, shady enterprise dominated by greedy CEO's that one would do well to avoid at all costs because surely, making stuff is boring, polluting, irresponsible and overall undesirable and it's best left to parts of the world we don't have to see or care about. Owing stuff, on the other hand, is fantastic and more stuff = better, so let's all run to the store and get a bunch of new flat-screen TV's, because we don't have one in the upstairs bathroom or the storage shed out back yet.
 

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I recently purchased a Nikon Z lens. One of my considerations was where is was made. A well known review site made no secret of that aspect.
 
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Chan Tran

Chan Tran

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I recently purchased a Nikon Z lens. One of my considerations was where is was made. A well known review site made no secret of that aspect.

Ken Rockwell is an exception. However, he doesn't review a lot of things. I am looking for information on the Hasselblad XCD lenses.
 

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Camera-wiki might be useful. I was looking for info on a “Tri-Lausar” lens, which was new to me and found an article on Camera-wiki. It turned out to be an early brand of Tomioka who made lenses for several camera companies, including Yashica. I suspect, from what I read in the article, that there are fewer lens manufacturers than we think—it seems there was a lot of re-branding going on in the past and it may still be true. At one point Tomioka was licensed to make Zeiss-branded lenses for Contax cameras. (Yashica ended up buying Tomioka and made them honest, after the fact.)
 

Tel

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Europe is the same. People don't know and don't care, and there's a relationship between these things. Not caring means there's no incentive to learn, which in turn results in a lack of awareness of relevant knowledge related to manufacturing in a broad sense. This appears to coincide with the rise to prominence of the service economy, which involves fewer and fewer people being trained in manufacturing-related fields and fewer manufacturing firms being active (esp. proportionally to the economy at large). It's also apparent in media; manufacturing does not feature at all in mainstream media of course, and the handful of journalists who do report occasionally about the manufacturing industry or related topics, are generally lacking in technical knowledge/background, resulting in an inability to grasp what developemts may or may not be relevant and how to make sense of the evidence they might stumble across by accident.

Sorry to sound all jaded, but I'm afraid that Western society overall has degenerated to a state of only caring whether something is featured on TikTok and whether we can afford to purchase it, without exhibiting the slightest interest in, or awareness of how or where something is made. Manufacturing is regarded as the grimy, shady enterprise dominated by greedy CEO's that one would do well to avoid at all costs because surely, making stuff is boring, polluting, irresponsible and overall undesirable and it's best left to parts of the world we don't have to see or care about. Owing stuff, on the other hand, is fantastic and more stuff = better, so let's all run to the store and get a bunch of new flat-screen TV's, because we don't have one in the upstairs bathroom or the storage shed out back yet.

+1! I read recently that one in every six ‘gen-whatever’ employees (ie, recent grads starting out in their working lives) is fired within the first year for lacking social/professional skills and not actually doing the work for which they were hired. On the other hand, I was talking with students in the visual-arts program at a local university and was impressed by their curiosity and especially their interest in film photography. A glimmer of hope, maybe.
 

wiltw

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If you're researching about a product you want to buy or interested in for example a camera, you can get tons of information with specs, pictures, videos, opinions, how to use it etc.. on the internet but if you want to find out where it is made it seems impossible. Why is it so? Why manufacturers when providing a lot of pictures of the product they carefully keep the "made in xxxxx" marking from visible? The same thing with reviewers, they do provide a lot of pictures of the product but not a hint where it is made.

Pieces or modules can come from many different countries, then assembled in yet another country, and shipped to distributors by the main office in yet another country, and marketed by business entities from yet many more countries (and not even linked to the main office other than by a contractual agreement)...which country does the camera come from?!
 

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More importantly for me is where the item was designed, and the standards it is held to. Many high quality items come from countries that produce as much or more junk. Design and quality control are crucial.
 
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Chan Tran

Chan Tran

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Pieces or modules can come from many different countries, then assembled in yet another country, and shipped to distributors by the main office in yet another country, and marketed by business entities from yet many more countries (and not even linked to the main office other than by a contractual agreement)...which country does the camera come from?!

I don't argue as to actually where all the parts are made. I just want to know what is on the label they put on the products. All products sold in the USA I believe have such a label but it seems extremely difficult to find out short of having the item on hand.
 
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Chan Tran

Chan Tran

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More importantly for me is where the item was designed, and the standards it is held to. Many high quality items come from countries that produce as much or more junk. Design and quality control are crucial.

I this thread also I don't argue whether such information is important, just why it's so difficult to get. When they took products photographs they carefully chose the angle where the country of origin label or marking not visible. This not only on advertising material from the manufacturers but also from reviewers of the products. It seems they take care not to let the audience know the country of origin of the products.
 

MattKing

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If you buy Kodak film, it is "assembled" in the USA from various components, sourced from all over the globe. In particular, the acetate base comes from Germany.
When the things that make up the product are a consolidation of things sourced from many parts of the world, the final assembly point becomes less and less important.
Even the design functions can be multi-national.
More importantly for me is where the item was designed, and the standards it is held to. Many high quality items come from countries that produce as much or more junk. Design and quality control are crucial.

Mostly I agree with this, except for the fact that the design may be done wherever the designers' computers happens to be - often multiple designers, in multiple locations.
It applies to service and knowledge based industries too.
When I stopped practicing law ~15 years ago - one of the challenges that the profession was dealing with was the growing volume of everyday legal work that was being subcontracted from North America to various other international locales - in particular India (in those days).
 

MattKing

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I this thread also I don't argue whether such information is important, just why it's so difficult to get. When they took products photographs they carefully chose the angle where the country of origin label or marking not visible. This not only on advertising material from the manufacturers but also from reviewers of the products. It seems they take care not to let the audience know the country of origin of the products.

Because the product needs to be salable in a huge variety of locations, sprinkled around the world.
And in some of those locations - not all - a now inordinate amount of attention is placed on what country happens to be the last stop on the assembly train.
 

BradS

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Although I do look, I'm not sure I care too much where a camera or lens was assembled. If it is sold by Nikon (for example) that's good enough for me.
 

wiltw

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More importantly for me is where the item was designed, and the standards it is held to. Many high quality items come from countries that produce as much or more junk. Design and quality control are crucial.

But where does the BMW model XYZ come from...if it is designed in Germany, the engine is assembled in Austria and the transmission is assembled in Germany, and the chassis is produced in Mexico and/or North Carolina (and that is where the engine and transmission are married to the chassis)? Is it more significant where it is designed or where it is assembled? Over 10 years ago, BMW reliability was pretty bad, today it is pretty great, what changed, the design or modules or the full assembly.
On to Mercedes...

Mercedes is a German design, the engines are assembled in Germany, the transmissions assembled in Romania, but their cars are assembled in many different countries...and the reliability since the miid-2000's (per Consumer Reports and other sources) is down in the dumps...is the design responsible for that, certain modules, or the full assembly?
 
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Pieter12

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But where does the BMW model XYZ come from...if it is designed in Germany, the engine is assembled in Austria and the transmission is assembled in Germany, and the chassis is produced in Mexico and/or North Carolina (and that is where the engine and transmission are married to the chassis)? Is it more significant where it is designed or where it is assembled? Over 10 years ago, BMW reliability was pretty bad, today it is pretty great, what changed, the design or modules or the full assembly.
On to Mercedes...

Mercedes is a German design, the engines are assembled in Germany, the transmissions assembled in Romania, but their cars are assembled in many different countries...and the reliability since the miid-2000's (per Consumer Reports and other sources) is down in the dumps...is the design responsible for that, certain modules, or the full assembly?
Mangement is responsible.
 

Pieter12

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I this thread also I don't argue whether such information is important, just why it's so difficult to get. When they took products photographs they carefully chose the angle where the country of origin label or marking not visible. This not only on advertising material from the manufacturers but also from reviewers of the products. It seems they take care not to let the audience know the country of origin of the products.
Often the origin is marked in hard-to find or see parts of a camera or lens, parts that are not significant photograph to show the condition of the item. For example, I am looking at a very expensive Leica lens right now. I had to hunt for the country of origin. It is engraved, black-on-black at the bottom edge of the lens body.
 

koraks

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what changed, the design or modules or the full assembly.

The automotive industry has a particularly rich history when it comes to quality management. One of the key aspects of this has been since roughly the 1960s that this involves the entire product realization process. So the real answer is that it all changes, pretty much all the time. And often (not always) for the better.
 

GregY

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Often the origin is marked in hard-to find or see parts of a camera or lens, parts that are not significant photograph to show the condition of the item. For example, I am looking at a very expensive Leica lens right now. I had to hunt for the country of origin. It is engraved, black-on-black at the bottom edge of the lens body.

it's been there for decades.....
 

wiltw

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The automotive industry has a particularly rich history when it comes to quality management. One of the key aspects of this has been since roughly the 1960s that this involves the entire product realization process. So the real answer is that it all changes, pretty much all the time. And often (not always) for the better.

Not arguing with the points you made. I merely was illustrating that knowing what the 'country of....' has little informative value as to the quality of the product that you are looking at!

Fiskars (Finnish company) owns Waterford Crystal (highly respected Irish crystal) which is now mostly manufactured in Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Germany.
 
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koraks

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Oh, you're certainly right there, too. Global business makes things rather opaque much of the time - and with complex assemblies, it's common for supply networks to be rather geographically dispersed to boot.
 

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at one time some placed required the "country ot Origin" to be marked, but what to make of somthing made in the EU for example. I have several examples of MInolta X series cameras, some from China, some from Malaysia, and Think even one from Japan. so until you look at the actual item it is not easy to say. In fact I have what was likly h eoriginal box for one of the Cameras, it says Malaysia, but the camera says China.

sometimes marketing is involved, Dodge had ads one year that said a Muscle car was "imported from Detroit, close, that model was bolted together in Brampton Ontario.
 

MattKing

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The "Country of Origin" usually determines which customs tariff provisions apply to items.
Which is a major reason cars that are full of parts made all around the world are assembled (made?) in USA, Canada, or Mexico factories.
 
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