Why is a Mamiya MF Rangefinder better for Landscape?

Allen Friday said:

Each system has its advantages and disadvantages. I own both the Mamiya 7II and the RZ67. I shoot the 7II 90% of the time in the field. The reason is simple, the 7II is easily carried, the RZ is not. In a small bag, I can carry a body and three lenses. For general, B&W landscape, I prefer the 7II. But, the camera has limitations not found in the RZ. First, it is much more difficult to use polarizers and split ND filters with the 7II. The 7II is terrible at macro or close up--minimum focus distance is 1 meter with the 80mm lens. The lenses on the 7II are excellent--but there is a limited range, 43, 50, 65, 80, 150 and 210. The RZ has a much broader range. With extension tubes, the RZ is an excellent camera for macro work.

If I did more color work, I would probably lean toward the RZ. But, I also agree with BetterSense. If I'm going to carry that much weight, I might as well carry the 4x5.

One big advantage of the 7II, you can use a smaller, lighter tripod than you can with the RZ. So not only do you save weight with the camera, but also with the accompanying gear.

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This is a good point, and I understand your point. I find that having two systems (RF & SLR) for the reasons you mentioned above is a good idea but, like you said you take the 7II out 90% of the time. I would think that it would be times when you're out with the 7II that you would find shots where the RZ would benefit. But if you don't have the RZ along it's almost pointless to have it. That's what I always thought was ironic about owning two systems. You almost have to carry both systems at all times or else one has no advantage over the other. There are times (about 10%) when I would love to have close up ability, or precise framing, or faster lenses, or longer lenses. But it doesn't happen that often and I'm not going to invest in a Hasselblad and lug it around for that 10% of the time when I feel I MIGHT need it.

People say this because the 6's and 7's are relatively small and light. Technically speaking, an SLR or a view camera (any camera with which you see what the lens sees) would be preferable for most landscape shots, as would a component camera with exchangeable magazines and other bits. However, for those traveling relatively long distances by foot to shoot their landscape pictures, the size and weight advantages of the rangefinders often outweigh the compositional and other advantages of the SLRs and view cameras. So, to say it has to do with the type of photography is not necessarily true. It has to do with how one gets to where one is photographing more than it does with the type of photography. I have shot many landscapes with my RZ, as it has many features which help out in landscape situations. I just don't usually go all that far from "home base" (usually the car) to shoot with it. I've hiked with it, and it is doable. However, it takes up a lot of space that could be used for other things, so I only take it on day hikes or overnight hikes, as I don't need to carry a lot of other supplies in these cases.

As for lens quality, the later model Mamiya 6's and 7's are known to have some of the best, if not the best, medium format optics, from a purely technical point of view. However, all quality medium format cameras have high-quality optics, so unless shooting test charts, the lens quality should be of little concern.

Personally, I'd say that a Hasselblad or a 645 SLR that uses backs would be the best all-around compact yet full featured landscape camera. The optics are excellent, they are component systems, they are SLRs. and they are relatively compact.

Why reject the Fuji 6x7, 6x8, and 6x9 RF's in this argument? They are also extremly sharp RF cameras for landscape work I submit? "He said, stirring the pot"
Logan Just for fun , fellas

Again... different tools for different purposes. It always humors me when people consider there to be a best anything in photography. Creative minds always have and always will rise above all the brandwanking and format inferiority complexes.

brian steinberger said:

This is a good point, and I understand your point. I find that having two systems (RF & SLR) for the reasons you mentioned above is a good idea but, like you said you take the 7II out 90% of the time. I would think that it would be times when you're out with the 7II that you would find shots where the RZ would benefit. But if you don't have the RZ along it's almost pointless to have it. That's what I always thought was ironic about owning two systems. You almost have to carry both systems at all times or else one has no advantage over the other. There are times (about 10%) when I would love to have close up ability, or precise framing, or faster lenses, or longer lenses. But it doesn't happen that often and I'm not going to invest in a Hasselblad and lug it around for that 10% of the time when I feel I MIGHT need it.

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Different tools for different jobs. When I shoot MF in the studio, the percentages are reversed. I shoot the RZ 90% of the time and the 7II 10%. I think it just shows that there is no one, perfect camera for every situation.

whlogan said:

Why reject the Fuji 6x7, 6x8, and 6x9 RF's in this argument? They are also extremly sharp RF cameras for landscape work I submit? "He said, stirring the pot"
Logan Just for fun , fellas

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The Fuji's are great cameras. A bit bulkier than the 7II, but very sharp lenses. For landscape work, in particular, the 6x9 might be a good idea because of the wider aspect ratio. Downside, no interchangeable lenses (and the exposure counter sounds like a gun shot when you press the shutter.)

Sirius Glass said:

You broke the code! fmajor, you are a fast learner!

Steve

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LOL!!! I'm not sure if i "broke" the code, i'm at least aware there *is* a code!

Again, thanks everyone for your insights and leading questions.

To help clarify my intentions, i do plan on lugging the camera (in the mountains) for my landscape attempts. A 7-15lb camera plus another 15lbs for a days outing is pocket lint compared to a typical winter multi-day outing load-out which is usually in the 70lb +/- range and more if i'm doing any technical climbing.

Also, i didn't include other brands b/c i own a Mamiya RB67 and so see related comments.

Mamiya, Hasselblad, Fuji, etc...

Here are some test charts results:

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

Sirius Glass said:

For Sirius work, I have my Hasselblad and 4x5s in the car.

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All of your work is Sirius (not sure if this is a serious comment though!).


Steve.

I take an RB67 out for landscape, usually with a Gitzo carbon fibre tripod, a 50mm, 90mm, 140mm and 250mm, and I usually need a good back rub and some ibuprophen when I get home. I suppose that's why a 7 is better, but then again it depends who does your back rub.

I also have an RB67 which gets taken out both with and without a tripod.

With 'normal' size cameras, often the tripod gets left at home as it's too much bother. With an RB67 you sometimes feel like taking the tripod out but leaving the camera at home!

I find the RB67 fine to use hand held with the left hand grip but it would be foolish to buy one without trying it first to see if it suits you.


Steve.

I use a Mamiya 7 as it's light(ish) and handholdable. The drawback of the RF is that if you want to use a lot of filters for landscape, especially a polarizer or ND grads, you can't set these up accurately as you don't view through the filters. I've used filters before, but just had to guess!

If you are lugging around a tripod and a load of gear for landscape anyway, then an Medium Format SLR might be a better choice. I can't comment on the RZ/RB.

I picked up a left-hand grip for 1 euro from a fine gent in Ireland. It's on it's way to me here in Sarajevo - hopefully it will come soon. Meanwhile, i'm doing nothing b/c i need to put new light seals on my 120 back and have about 3 weeks before i can get a set (hopefully).

fmajor said:

Meanwhile, i'm doing nothing b/c i need to put new light seals on my 120 back and have about 3 weeks before i can get a set (hopefully).

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If it's of any use to you, I could send you some self adhesive 1mm thick black foam.


Steve.

Hi Steve -

Thank you and very kind offer. Unfortunately, i suspect by the time it cleared Customs here in Bosnia i'd be back in the States and will have received a kit - unless it was sent in a "Diplomatic Pouch" and not many have access to those (sending or receiving).

Meanwhile, i do alot of photo composing but no picture taking! It's like dry-fire practice in marksmanship - helps to stick to the basics!!

I have quite complete M/F and L/F systems. Yet when I look around at my living room and gallery walls I see most of the landscape/travel prints are from a beat up Palubel Makita 67. To travel with one camera/one lens and zoom, when possible, with your feet has much to recommend. Getting really comfortable with your camera and lens is key. That you can fit a 6x7 rangefinder into a small fanny pack is very nice.

Last year down in Mexico the fuzzy light trap stuffing gave up and died. Then the rangefinder crapped out. (lots of motorcycle and air travel I guess) Some black tape and zone/scale focus and I kept on going. I am very happy with the prints from that trip. You see, it does not matter what you use, just pick your camera and use it, a lot.