Why is 70mm Ilford HP5 plus hitting almost $500 for fifty feet of film?

eli griggs · Aug 14, 2023

Looking for Ilford 70mm film, HP5 PLUS, I saw where one of the main photographic houses are asking near $400 for this film, which makes me think the 2006 areographic Plus-x at 100 ft. and $168 a roll is soooo... much more reasonable and well reasoned to buy on eBay.

Ilford must have a very fine and monied core of 70mm photographers to have raised this films half boxes to what appears to be almost $800 a hundred feet, or some one is on steroids and gouging a market with few new options.

What can justify such a price?

koraks · Aug 14, 2023

eli griggs said:
What can justify such a price?

Low volume and lots of manual labor.

MCB18 · Aug 14, 2023

eli griggs said:
Looking for Ilford 70mm film, HP5 PLUS, I saw where one of the main photographic houses are asking near $400 for this film, which makes me think the 2006 areographic Plus-x at 100 ft. and $168 a roll is soooo... much more reasonable and well reasoned to buy on eBay.

Ilford must have a very fine and monied core of 70mm photographers to have raised this films half boxes to what appears to be almost $800 a hundred feet, or some one is on steroids and gouging a market with few new options.

What can justify such a price?

It isn’t worth that much, and anyone who thinks it is is naive. The film itself is not worth much more than $150, but Ilford charges a bit more due to the work involved in changing the slitter blades and packing it, which is not automated as far as I understand. Keeping that in mind, the up-charge is completely reasonable. I charge for labor with my film as well. If you’re trying to get into 70mm, go for Aviphot 200. You can get 275’ of type II perfed film for $100, and 300’ of unperfed film for the same cost.

Sirius Glass · Aug 15, 2023

It is things like this that kept me from using 70mm film.

mshchem · Aug 15, 2023

They probably only have a few rolls left

Alex Varas · Aug 15, 2023

That film is only done at the Ilford ULF, this year I tried to get 70mm unperf but the orders were not multiple of 15 so it hasn't been manufactured this year, or at least I'm not in the winners list. The price was around 300 euro per 30 meters?
Other films I have tried in 70mm are lottery how their status and usually really curvy for scanning, I appreciate fresh stock when shooting 70mm.

MCB18 · Aug 16, 2023

Sirius Glass said:
It is things like this that kept me from using 70mm film.

Me too, the startup costs are just too big. More convenient and much cheaper to roll 120/220 film myself, and that’s definitely saying something. I mean, the back alone costs as much as a lens for my camera, and if I’m being honest, I would rather get the lens if I’m going to spend that much on an upgrade to the kit.

DREW WILEY · Aug 16, 2023

It's no different than buying a special moulding profile for an older house. You might spend more for just a few feet of it than hundred feets of something common and already shaped, because it might be even more work for the mill to set up, at less profitability, and might require a special set of custom set of shaping blades to be made as well. Anytime a production line has to be interrupted for sake of a short run is labor intensive and disruptive. They might allow for that, as an added service for sake of convenience, but don't necessarily want to encourage it.

Certain Exposures · Sep 4, 2023

MCB18 said:
It isn’t worth that much, and anyone who thinks it is is naive. The film itself is not worth much more than $150, but Ilford charges a bit more due to the work involved in changing the slitter blades and packing it, which is not automated as far as I understand. Keeping that in mind, the up-charge is completely reasonable. I charge for labor with my film as well. If you’re trying to get into 70mm, go for Aviphot 200. You can get 275’ of type II perfed film for $100, and 300’ of unperfed film for the same cost.

Hello, I have a few questions:

1. Are you purchasing Aviphot directly from the manufacturer?

2. Does the type II perforated film work with a 70mm Mamiya RB67 film back?

Edit: I found the answer to this question. It is "yes."

3. Do you have many example scans and prints to share?

The savings would be sky high (no pun intended). I am very interested.

MCB18 · Sep 4, 2023

Certain Exposures said:
Hello, I have a few questions:

1. Are you purchasing Aviphot directly from the manufacturer?

No, I am purchasing it from EBay. The stuff has been cold stored in some Indian Air Force surplus wharehouse since new, and it works extremely well.

Although you can purchase directly from Agfa, I have asked about various sizes, they only offer master roll quantities of most film sizes (35mm (perfed), 46mm, 61.5mm, 70mm (non-perf only), and 5”). Only format available in smaller quantities is 9.5” film in 250’ and 500’ rolls.

Certain Exposures said:
2. Does the type II perforated film work with a 70mm Mamiya RB67 film back?

Edit: I found the answer to this question. It is "yes."

Yes, it does, however be aware that non-perforated stock does not, and cinima film, both 65mm and 70mm print stocks don’t work in the unmodified back.

Certain Exposures said:
3. Do you have many example scans and prints to share?

yes, I have some scans of negatives as well as positives. Here’s an imgur album with negatives:

(http://imgur.com/a/BkSkNcP)
And here are a couple pictures of positives in IR and visible light:

Certain Exposures said:
The savings would be sky high (no pun intended). I am very interested.

It is an absolutely amazing film for the price, yes!

Certain Exposures · Sep 4, 2023

Thanks, MCB18.

MCB18 said:
Although you can purchase directly from Agfa, I have asked about various sizes, they only offer master roll quantities of most film sizes (35mm (perfed), 46mm, 61.5mm, 70mm (non-perf only), and 5”). Only format available in smaller quantities is 9.5” film in 250’ and 500’ rolls.

It's too bad they don't sell perforated film. How long is a master roll? I'm guessing it's much longer than 500' because of your last sentence.

MCB18 · Sep 4, 2023

Certain Exposures said:
Thanks, MCB18.

It's too bad they don't sell perforated film. How long is a master roll? I'm guessing it's much longer than 500' because of your last sentence.

I believe the minimum I was quoted for 61.5mm was 27 rolls of 590 meters. Doing a bit of math, I believe the minimum for 70mm film would be 23 rolls of 590 meters, however I didn’t ask specifically about that as I was looking mostly at 120 size bulk film.

Certain Exposures · Sep 4, 2023

MCB18 said:
I believe the minimum I was quoted for 61.5mm was 27 rolls of 590 meters. Doing a bit of math, I believe the minimum for 70mm film would be 23 rolls of 590 meters, however I didn’t ask specifically about that as I was looking mostly at 120 size bulk film.

Okay, thank you.

Certain Exposures · Sep 7, 2023

MCB18 said:
No, I am purchasing it from EBay. The stuff has been cold stored in some Indian Air Force surplus wharehouse since new, and it works extremely well.

Although you can purchase directly from Agfa, I have asked about various sizes, they only offer master roll quantities of most film sizes (35mm (perfed), 46mm, 61.5mm, 70mm (non-perf only), and 5”). Only format available in smaller quantities is 9.5” film in 250’ and 500’ rolls.

Yes, it does, however be aware that non-perforated stock does not, and cinima film, both 65mm and 70mm print stocks don’t work in the unmodified back.

yes, I have some scans of negatives as well as positives. Here’s an imgur album with negatives:
(http://imgur.com/a/BkSkNcP)
And here are a couple pictures of positives in IR and visible light:
View attachment 348287 View attachment 348288

It is an absolutely amazing film for the price, yes!

I have a few more questions for you.

1. What developer and development time did your lab use? Did you shoot those images at ISO 200? Also, did you intentionally make your home developed film look that way?

2. Where did you get your 70mm film back and how much did it cost you? What do you bulk load it with?

3. The IR positives you showed...That's the same film, just with an IR filter, right? What strength filter did you use? Also, how did you develop them?

MCB18 · Sep 8, 2023

Certain Exposures said:
I have a few more questions for you.

1. What developer and development time did your lab use? Did you shoot those images at ISO 200? Also, did you intentionally make your home developed film look that way?

My lab uses D-76 and developed it 14 minutes in 1+1. I also did that at home.

however now that I have deved more rolls, I think I messed up exposure or developing somehow, maybe both.

I shot both rolls at ISO 100, which is pretty close to this film’s box speed. The 200 in the name is is ISO-A, a bit different than regular ISO. I’m not sure of the exact difference, but I’m sure someone else on here would know.

Certain Exposures said:
2. Where did you get your 70mm film back and how much did it cost you? What do you bulk load it with?

I actually don’t have any 70mm gear, I cut the film into medium format rolls and pack them by hand. I have a thread about that, I believe it’s in my signature if I formatted it right. I also sell it sometimes to fund my hobby. Seems like you’re set on 70mm, but if you’re interested in some 220, feel free to PM.

Certain Exposures said:
3. The IR positives you showed...That's the same film, just with an IR filter, right? What strength filter did you use? Also, how did you develop them?

Yes, it’s the same film. I used a Zomei 720nm pass filter and exposed at 6-12 ISO on a sunny day.

Slide B&W development is a super fun topic, but also, there’s not really one way to do it consistently as of yet. You just gotta do some research and experiment. There are several threads on here about this process, and the results you can get.

Depending on what is stuff is available and how comfortable with chemicals you are will ultimately determine the best method for you, but I use a copper sulfate bleach. This is the safest and cheapest method I have found, but the most convenient might be a reversal kit from Foma or Adox.

Hope these help!

Certain Exposures · Sep 8, 2023

MCB18 said:
My lab uses D-76 and developed it 14 minutes in 1+1. I also did that at home.

however now that I have deved more rolls, I think I messed up exposure or developing somehow, maybe both.

I shot both rolls at ISO 100, which is pretty close to this film’s box speed. The 200 in the name is is ISO-A, a bit different than regular ISO. I’m not sure of the exact difference, but I’m sure someone else on here would know.

I actually don’t have any 70mm gear, I cut the film into medium format rolls and pack them by hand. I have a thread about that, I believe it’s in my signature if I formatted it right. I also sell it sometimes to fund my hobby. Seems like you’re set on 70mm, but if you’re interested in some 220, feel free to PM.

Yes, it’s the same film. I used a Zomei 720nm pass filter and exposed at 6-12 ISO on a sunny day.

Slide B&W development is a super fun topic, but also, there’s not really one way to do it consistently as of yet. You just gotta do some research and experiment. There are several threads on here about this process, and the results you can get.

Depending on what is stuff is available and how comfortable with chemicals you are will ultimately determine the best method for you, but I use a copper sulfate bleach. This is the safest and cheapest method I have found, but the most convenient might be a reversal kit from Foma or Adox.

Hope these help!

Thanks for the details!

I'll check out your cutting guide.

My main worry at the moment is about consistency. Have you shot enough of their expired film and had consistent great results that you'd use it for a paid job?

I'm guessing that in most cases there isn't much of a reason for the film deeper into an expired 200ft reel to be any worse.

MCB18 · Sep 9, 2023

Certain Exposures said:
Thanks for the details!

I'll check out your cutting guide.

My main worry at the moment is about consistency. Have you shot enough of their expired film and had consistent great results that you'd use it for a paid job?

I'm guessing that in most cases there isn't much of a reason for the film deeper into an expired 200ft reel to be any worse.

it has been pretty consistant so far, but i think @Cholentpot has shot much more of this film than I have, so he would probably be the one to ask.

Cholentpot · Sep 9, 2023

MCB18 said:
it has been pretty consistant so far, but i think @Cholentpot has shot much more of this film than I have, so he would probably be the one to ask.

Certain Exposures said:
Thanks for the details!

I'll check out your cutting guide.

My main worry at the moment is about consistency. Have you shot enough of their expired film and had consistent great results that you'd use it for a paid job?

I'm guessing that in most cases there isn't much of a reason for the film deeper into an expired 200ft reel to be any worse.

Wouldn't use on a paid job. If someone is paying me for a shoot and I'm using film either I'm going to stipulate that they're paying for the film, processing and scans or I'm rolling the cost into the job. I'm shooting fresh Tmax and Tri-x on a paid job and letting a reputable lab handle everything.

The film can give great results but it is not consistent. If you underexpose you'll get this weird dot pattern. Over expose and it doesn't like it either. It scratches easily and marks up too.

MCB18 · Sep 9, 2023

Cholentpot said:
Wouldn't use on a paid job. If someone is paying me for a shoot and I'm using film either I'm going to stipulate that they're paying for the film, processing and scans or I'm rolling the cost into the job. I'm shooting fresh Tmax and Tri-x on a paid job and letting a reputable lab handle everything.

To add to this, I personally wouldn’t use this on a paid job, either. But the results I’ve had are consistent enough for me to keep using it personally, and so far people I’ve sold it to have been happy with it. As far as the weird dots, maybe I’m just lucky but I haven’t seen any.

Only problem I’ve had with it is that it’s really thin, I transitioned to steel reels because of it LOL. It would not go onto a Patterson reel well at all, but it does load very easily on steel reels.

Haven’t seen any issues with scratches, but I’m really carful with it because I do know it’s soft. In my experience though, it’s still more resistant to scratches than Foma.

I’d say the way you should treat it is like any other well stored, but expired film. It makes good results most of the time, but there is also a chance the results could be really bad.

Cholentpot · Sep 9, 2023

MCB18 said:
To add to this, I personally wouldn’t use this on a paid job, either. But the results I’ve had are consistent enough for me to keep using it personally, and so far people I’ve sold it to have been happy with it. As far as the weird dots, maybe I’m just lucky but I haven’t seen any.

Only problem I’ve had with it is that it’s really thin, I transitioned to steel reels because of it LOL. It would not go onto a Patterson reel well at all, but it does load very easily on steel reels.

Haven’t seen any issues with scratches, but I’m really carful with it because I do know it’s soft. In my experience though, it’s still more resistant to scratches than Foma.

I’d say the way you should treat it is like any other well stored, but expired film. It makes good results most of the time, but there is also a chance the results could be really bad.

I agree. If it was really bad I'd not be using it much. The Plus-X stuff doesn't get used as much as the Aviphot, the Plus-X is a more difficult film to expose. The Aviphot when it works is pretty nice.

Certain Exposures · Sep 11, 2023

Okay, thank you @Cholentpot and @MCB18!

Why is 70mm Ilford HP5 plus hitting almost $500 for fifty feet of film?

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