Why is 35MM BW ISO 800 film so difficult to find?

[aprilshowers01]

Being a rookie at film photography, can anyone tell me why 35MM BW ISO 800film is so difficult to find. Fuji, Kodak, Ilford - don't carry it. It seems a bit unusual that I can purchase 25, 50, 100, 125, 200, 400, 1600 and 3200 BW 35mm film but no ISO 800???

 

[Markok765]

Kodak T-Max 3200 is actually 800speed, you just develop it and push it.

 

[Colin Corneau]

EI800 is absurdly easy to get simply by manually developing a (relative) fraction longer. Indeed, some films have an exposure latitude wide enough to effectively have that.

The difference between 400 and 1600 is large enough to have a separate emulsion...one stop (barely) isn't.

 

[BetterSense]

I think that Kodak recommends no development changes for using Tmax 400 at 800. If I remember right, the datasheet recommends just developing normally.

 

[jim appleyard]

I'm not even sure that an 800 speed b/w film is made. Like what's said above, EI 800 is easy to obtain: D3200, T-Max 3200 and Neopan 1600 can all easily be used at EI 800.

It's also easy to "push" a 400 speed film to 800.

 

[BetterSense]

Never satisfied, but I wonder more often if it would be more possible to have a faster film...if the *3200 films are actually pushable 1000 speed films, imagine a pushable 3200 speed film. I wonder what technical issues are to be overcome...it could be that there just aren't enough photons coming in to change that many molecules of silver, but I doubt it's quite that fundamental.

 

[RobertV]

Well Foma had in the past (before 2001) the Fomapan T800 film. But there is no problem at all to use the (Fuji) Neopan 1600 on iso 800. In fact in most developers (ID11/D76) it IS an iso 800 film.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Robert,

Did Foma make the 800 speed film themselves? I remember reading that Fomapan 400 isn't made by Foma, but that may be misinformation.

Tom.

 

[fschifano]

I think that Kodak recommends no development changes for using Tmax 400 at 800. If I remember right, the datasheet recommends just developing normally.

That is absolutely correct. The newest formulation of TMY is even better than the old version and retains quite a bit of shadow detail when treated that way. TMY and Delta 3200 come in with a natural speed of around that, but the negatives are a bit flat. Neopan 1600 might be the closest thing that is easily available, with a natural speed of around 640.

 

[RobertV]

Did Foma make the 800 speed film themselves?

Yes, all Fomapan films are made in Hradec Kralové, Czech Republic. The Fomapan T800 was a kind of T200 (Creative 200) on iso 640 speed, pretty grainy.

Here are the films made:

Foma S.R.O. on the Jana K. (Fuji Neopan 1600 on E.I. 800)

 

[aprilshowers01]

Thanks Robert, one more question, if what you said is true about 1600 is really 800, then what do I set the ASA dial on my camera for 1600 film. Do I put it on 800 or 1600, or does it really not matter much seeing as their both the same?

 

[Vaughn]

BetterSense - it appears that faster speed films are possible, but they are so sensitive that their keeping properties are not good. They tend to fog quickly (heat, cosmic rays, whatever). One would definitely want hand inspection at airports, but one would still have to deal with the extra exposure the film would get at 30,000 feet (or however high planes fly these days.)

Vaughn

AprilShowers -- buy a roll and meter at the rated ISO (ASA) -- photograph in different types of light and expose as your meter suggests and also at one stop under and one (and possibly two) stop over. Then develop the film and see which negs look and print the best (looking especially at the shadow detail). This will give you images to print (and/or scan) and give you info about which ISO seems to work best with your meter, camera, lens, light conditions, chemicals, developing method, etc. (all factors that determine your actual ISO of a film).

 

[RobertV]

If you can make film log D curves, then it is 100% clear what you're doing.

Neopan 1600 E.I. 800 with developers like ID11/D76

Neopan 1600 E.I. 640 with Rodinal (speed loss type developer)

Neopan 1600 E.I. 1000 with developers like Microphen, DD-X, Acu-1 (speed enhancing developers)

You can also "push" Neopan 1600 by extended developement. You will get a steep log D curve (C.I. = contrast index normal 0,55 will go up till 0,7-0,8) no detail in the shadows anymore but you have more speed.

A very easy speed enhanced developer is Diafine (BKA) a two bath developer: E.I. 1600 with Neopan 1600. Reasonable end result and still some detail in the shadows.

But you asked for iso 800: Set your iso setting on the camera on iso 800 and shoot the film. In most regular developers you have iso 800 with Neopan 1600 with nice shadow details and still regular moderate grain.

Best regards,

Robert

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

Delta 3200 at 800 looks very good in Pyrocat HD, for example.
Too bad Foma doesn't produce the T800 anymore (I don't mind a grainy rendition when it is appropriate) and no planfilms in 400!...

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Delta 3200 at 800 looks very good in Pyrocat HD, for example.
Too bad Foma doesn't produce the T800 anymore (I don't mind a grainy rendition when it is appropriate) and no planfilms in 400!...

Phillipe,

Interesting observation. How would you say Delta 3200 @ 800 EI in Pyrocat-HD compares to a pushed slower film?

Tom.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

If I correctly understand your question, I would say that this combo gives lots of shadow details and perfect highlights, which is not the case of "pushed" films. Please forgive my rusty english...

 

[Pinholemaster]

As mentioned about the Fuji Neopan and Kodak T-Max 3200 are really 800 ISO. The higher speeds you get from pushing the film in development.

 

[Philippe Grunchec]

I'm not even sure that Neopan 1600 reaches 800 without lazzy shadows... but I like very much that film. Too bad it doesn't not exist in 120! It works very well with Tetenal's Emofin (two bath).
Many years ago, when I was a young photographer, Agfa had a 1000 film: as far as I can remember, it didn't last very long.

 

[Slixtiesix]

Or simply try to push Ilford´s HP5+! Never did it myself but this film is often recommended for pushing.

 

[Martin Reed]

.....
Too bad Foma doesn't produce the T800 anymore...

The T800 was tested by another well known film manufacturer, who found that according to their own parameters it weighed in at <400 ISO. At the end of the day the speed is what you personally find it to be.

 

[Mark Antony]

Martin do you know if the Foma T800 was the same as the Paterson Acupan 800? or am I dreaming and there was no Acupan 800

The interesting thing about B&W film is the option to push a ISO 400 say HP5 to EI800 or use Delta at 800 which is a very slight pull.
I suppose it would be down to the look you needed from a film or might be down to what developer you use or if you scan & inkjet or print on real paper.
Experimentation is the key, in Britain we have a saying "Try everything once except incest and Morris dancing"
Have fun...
Mark

 

[RobertV]

do you know if the Foma T800 was the same as the Paterson Acupan 800

Both the T200 and T800 was an OEM bussiness between Foma and Paterson.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Robert,

Is Paterson T200 the same product as the currently available Fomapan 200 film?

Tom.

 

[RobertV]

In 1999-2000 the Paterson Acupan 200 and 800 were Fomapan T200 and T800 films. The Fomapan T800 film was discontinued in 2001.

 

[2F/2F]

Both Kodak T-Max 3200 and Ilford Delta 3200 are actually ISO 1000 films. 3200 is an EI (exposure meter setting) for these films, not an actual ISO speed. Though Fuji does not list the actual ISO anywhere, Neopan 1600 is likely 800 or thereabout. Either of these three films rated at EI 800 would certainly be close enough for what you need, and far closer to their actual ISOs than the number on the box would be. So, the real question is not "why are there no ISO 800 films", because there are three of them. The question is "why are there three films labeled as 1600 and 3200 films when there are no films that actually have these ISO speeds".