Why I think they think "film is dead".

Ko.Fe. · Sep 3, 2015

FSU to me isn't about education place in Florida, it is the territory and soviet time I'm from.

Only in FSU nineties it was blooming in colors. As I would recall. Imported color film everywhere, developing, printing at every corner at least in Moscow (10M people population).
Before, I have to go to the special store and special lab for East German Agfa slides. BW wasn't sold just everywhere either.
I think "my" folks have short memories, they only remember nineties with affordable and working imported PS cameras and somewhat affordable and quality consistent imported color film.
I wonder if it was significantly different in the free world of spending-consuming (USA) and not even developed yet countries like India and China where majority of the planet Earth population is for sometime. Fifties-seventies-eighties?

Recently, I discovered photo of me taken at Excalibur hotel (LV) escalator in nineties . One person in the background is hiding his face from the camera by holding plastic shopping bag with film developing advertising and it is isn't cheap service.
We came to Canada as family in 2003 and color film wasn't cheap at all for family pictures. I complained to one Canadian how expensive color film is, he asked about current price is and told me it is as expensive as it was well before we came to Canada.

Now after learning how to bw it same way as millions did for decades I feel astonished every time I'm asked "do they still sell film?"
Yes, they still sell film, paper, chemicals and else, but it is just as it was initially. In special stores, not at your groceries place.
It is as normal to me as art supplies store which sell things for painting.
Is art of painting dead in consumers heads because canvas and oil based paint isn't available at every corner?

Sirius Glass · Sep 3, 2015

So much disinterest in film that they are not interested to find out on their own plus since they shoot digital the world must all shoot digital.

DannL. · Sep 3, 2015

As far as painting . . . there are probably 20 stores withing 10 miles of my home, where I can buy those supplies. For the past 20 years I have only known of one store that carried photographic/darkroom supplies. Then about 10 years ago I found I could order over the internet and get a decent price and selection. Having local access to photographic supplies is not of great importance to me. It's not as if I need to squeeze the bag of Dektol to determine if it will work. People think things are dead because they haven't heard about them for a while.

So, with that . . . . I'll go back to listening to my Edison Diamond Discs.

OptiKen · Sep 3, 2015

To some extent, art painting is dead....as dead as photography.
In the 70's and 80's I sold fine art supplies for one of the oldest and largest fine art distributing companies in the USA - Duncan-Vail.
Every where you would look, there would be some sort of selection of fine art supplies and the chain stores (IE: Aaron Bros, etc) were huge.
Now days if a store carries art supplies they are incredibly limited and allocated to a very small portion of the store. Film is the same today. Large colorful displays of film and processing services have either completely disappeared or they are found on a small end-cap or on 3 pegs in front of the cash register.
Neither photography nor painting fits in with today's fast paced society of 'I want it all and I want it now'.

OptiKen · Sep 3, 2015

DannL. said:
So, with that . . . . I'll go back to listening to my Edison Diamond Discs.

Edison Diamond discs? Any idea where I can pick up a new Pathe' needle? You know, the round wheel one??

DannL. · Sep 3, 2015

OptiKen said:
Edison Diamond discs? Any idea where I can pick up a new Pathe' needle? You know, the round wheel one??

All I can say is Google "Pathe Needle". Several sites turned up.

Ko.Fe. · Sep 3, 2015

I have no idea what you are talking about. My 78' one side shellac from 1915 just playing fine on regular turntable with 78' needle widely available at on-online stores, located in the States and nearby. But I forgot if it is diamond or else needle.

DannL. · Sep 3, 2015

I hate to say this, but the digital camera market appears to be dead. Our local electronics and department stores have plenty of selection, but I haven't seen anyone frequent those counters in at least 5 years. It won't be long now, all you'll have to do is "Google Yourself", to get a picture. So, it's not just film. I think the term "camera" will eventually be outdated . . . like the term "horseless carriage".

BradS · Sep 3, 2015

Out of sight, out of mind.

People think "film is dead" because it is nearly invisible today and it has been for all or most of some peoples' lifetimes.

Thirty-five years ago, we had Kodak color print, color slide and B&W films available in every drugstore and most super markets. One could drop off color print films for High quality Kodak processing at a multitude of convenient locations and expect prints in a few days. We had Fotomat booths in parking lots for pete's sake! Camera stores all had large darkroom sections...heck, even places like Target, K-Mart and walmart had darkroom gear and supplies (ok, maybe this was more like 40 years ago)?. In the late 1970's and early 1980's one could buy a Pentax K-1000 with a 50mm f/1.7 Pentax-m lens at K-mart for around $200. We had pro-labs, portrait studios and wedding photogs...Kodak was one of the 30 companies that made up the DOW Jones industrial average!

What visible evidence of the existence of film does the general population have today? Almost none. It is all gone. Many (most?) people under the age of about 25 years have never even seen a roll of film or a non-digital camera. Of course they think it is extinct...because for them, it is.

Sirius Glass · Sep 3, 2015

DannL. said:
I hate to say this, but the digital camera market appears to be dead. Our local electronics and department stores have plenty of selection, but I haven't seen anyone frequent those counters in at least 5 years. It won't be long now, all you'll have to do is "Google Yourself", to get a picture. So, it's not just film. I think the term "camera" will eventually be outdated . . . like the term "horseless carriage".

I am waiting to hear "Do they still make digital cameras? Everyone uses cell phones now."

rbultman · Sep 3, 2015

Film is dead for most of the population. It is equally as dead as oil painting, or nearly so. I can still get some color films at my local drug store which still does film processing. You can see the machines in the photo area of the store. I can't get Windsor Newton paints or canvases at the store though.

The last time I stepped foot into the local camera store, they were in the process of ending their processing of film. I can no longer get film there. I previously had color film developed there and bought B&W processing supplies. That is all gone. They may still sell entry level film cameras (Nikon?) and some used stuff, but they mostly push digital. Every time I have been in that store I feel like I am bothering the staff.

The local art store that my wife takes oil painting classes in has a rich selection of art supplies covering many different mediums. They hold lots of weekend demonstrations there for drawing, cartooning, etc, and offer lots of classes for kids. It is a very vibrant store with knowledgeable staff, many of whom are professional artists. They are a local store and can't compete with the prices from Dick Blick on-line, but my wife can't take classes from Dick Blick. However, they have no film stuff. Not really surprising.

The camera store I mentioned used to cater to the professional photographers in town including professional lab services. Their attitude is not friendly to the amateur while the art store is. Just think if the art store started carrying film supplies and giving awesome darkroom classes. Just think if the camera store did the same.

It's all about promotion at some level. If the film isn't promoted, it doesn't exist.

Regards,
Rob

gzinsel · Sep 3, 2015

I think there are plenty of fine artists who use paints and canvases, and artists who use film. By and large most artists get their "supplies" from web site, not brick and mortar stores. Fine artists of the high brow type, are in their own sub-culture if you will. Out of sight out mind!!!! they are there, you just have to and look. I do not think that the touch sensitive arts are dead. its just not part of popular culture. But, popular culture is not ALL of culture. there are plenty of sub's out there.

rbultman · Sep 3, 2015

gzinsel said:
But, popular culture is not ALL of culture. there are plenty of sub's out there.

+1

summicron1 · Sep 3, 2015

Ko.Fe. said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. My 78' one side shellac from 1915 just playing fine on regular turntable with 78' needle widely available at on-online stores, located in the States and nearby. But I forgot if it is diamond or else needle.

edison discs are not 78 rpm, edison discs are about half an inch thick and play at a higher speed than 78 -- Edison marketed his own record players, one of which resides in my living room and sees duty during power outages. I imagine needles for them are available, but the one I have has worked fine for 30 years.

summicron1 · Sep 3, 2015

DannL. said:
I hate to say this, but the digital camera market appears to be dead. Our local electronics and department stores have plenty of selection, but I haven't seen anyone frequent those counters in at least 5 years. It won't be long now, all you'll have to do is "Google Yourself", to get a picture. So, it's not just film. I think the term "camera" will eventually be outdated . . . like the term "horseless carriage".

The nice folks at Ilford say their sales are up lately, and Kodak is still making its small selection of b/w films, also Fuji so far as I can tell.

So, it's a niche market, but what isn't any more?

I was talking to a local dealer a year or so ago who said the point-and-shoot digital market seemed to be on its way to dropping off a cliff faster and farther than film cameras did. Interesting times we live in.

Xmas · Sep 4, 2015

summicron1 said:
I was talking to a local dealer a year or so ago who said the point-and-shoot digital market seemed to be on its way to dropping off a cliff faster and farther than film cameras did. Interesting times we live in.

Our charity shops, pawn brokers and cash converters, used to have eg Konica TCs, now they only have dP&S and low to middle end dSLRs.

iPhones have 8 million hard working pixies and better signal processing software than any low to mid range dcamera.

Modern brides say send all files on wedding day to their best gmates.

Most people have a news app with two buttons

- send pic or video to picture editor
- send accompanying text

Our wedding and hot news photographers with high end dSLRs are not able to compete easily.

It is being there with a 3G service.

Girlies do makeup on train with iPhone rather than compact mirror.

Even primates can use iPhones.

I've even seen a parrot.

Helios 1984 · Sep 10, 2015

The reason for the camera's demise is because we live in a era of Casuals, everything that is conceived is meant for the casual users. I'm talking about the same folks who cook Craft Diner and call it fine cuisine, listen Nicky Minaj songs and watch the Kardishians. Those people do not want to use the grey matter between their ears, they want their smartphones to think for them! Alas my friends, dark times are ahead of us.

Theo Sulphate · Sep 10, 2015

Helios 1984 said:
... Those people do not want to use the grey matter between their ears, they want their smartphones to think for them! Alas my friends, dark times are ahead of us.

... and they want their Google cars to drive for them. I see the bad moon arising. I see trouble on the way.

Helios 1984 · Sep 10, 2015

Theo Sulphate said:
... and they want their Google cars to drive for them. I see the bad moon arising. I see trouble on the way.

Sirius Glass · Sep 10, 2015

Helios 1984 said:
The reason for the camera's demise is because we live in a era of Casuals, everything that is conceived is meant for the casual users. I'm talking about the same folks who cook Craft Diner and call it fine cuisine, listen Nicky Minaj songs and watch the Kardishians. Those people do not want to use the grey matter between their ears, they want their smartphones to think for them! Alas my friends, dark times are ahead of us.

+1

thecatt · Sep 14, 2015

They think film is dead because people want things now. The digital camera is a great example of the now culture. Last year I was using the color darkroom at the local community college. Apparently students won't even touch it because it requires work/ time and is not instant. Students there could't grasp why I would want to make c-prints when I could just pull them off a memory card and push paper through an epson. A 4x5 c-print is nearly impossible to beat. So much sharper and richer than anything an epson can produce. Plus a good color lab is hard to find, at least in St. Louis. And the schools even some good art schools are pushing digital imagery over analogue. WTF do I know, I am a bit crazy wanting to stand in the dark breathing the fumes of chemicals.

Sirius Glass · Sep 14, 2015

thecatt said:
They think film is dead because people want things now. The digital camera is a great example of the now culture. Last year I was using the color darkroom at the local community college. Apparently students won't even touch it because it requires work/ time and is not instant. Students there could't grasp why I would want to make c-prints when I could just pull them off a memory card and push paper through an epson. A 4x5 c-print is nearly impossible to beat. So much sharper and richer than anything an epson can produce. Plus a good color lab is hard to find, at least in St. Louis. And the schools even some good art schools are pushing digital imagery over analogue. WTF do I know, I am a bit crazy wanting to stand in the dark breathing the fumes of chemicals.

Welcome to APUG

Well said. You captured it. They think that a stink-jet is a color print until they are handed a real color print on single or double weight paper. A silver monochrome print blows them away.

Ko.Fe. · Sep 15, 2015

This might explain why instax is popular among kids. It is "now&easy" at its best.

I like analog color prints, but I'm into darkroom printing by myself in terms of color.
Modern BW printing is next to odorless, harmless and fine for home usage.

So, welcome to thecatt the diehard!

gzinsel · Sep 16, 2015

rbultman said:
It's all about promotion at some level. If the film isn't promoted, it doesn't exist.

Regards,
Rob

If local stores who sell film- had classes on how to use film, process, and print and IN ADDITION promoted film, . . . . . More people ( hobbyist) would get involved, . . . But . . . . . THAT would be costly.

removed account4 · Sep 16, 2015

Helios 1984 said:
The reason for the camera's demise is because we live in a era of Casuals, everything that is conceived is meant for the casual users. I'm talking about the same folks who cook Craft Diner and call it fine cuisine, listen Nicky Minaj songs and watch the Kardishians. Those people do not want to use the grey matter between their ears, they want their smartphones to think for them! Alas my friends, dark times are ahead of us.

i am not really sure what you mean by any of this
craft diner? kardascz and smart phones ?
what is a craft diner ?

it seem the demise of chemical photography started a long long time ago
when george eastman said " you push the button and we'll do the rest"

Why I think they think "film is dead".

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